Bilbo

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1441977817' post='2863471'] I was mentally prepared to accuse you of some jazz snobbery here, [/quote] It's still jazz snobbery. You just agree with it

Yeeuch. I always found Rich's big band a bit thuggish. This is too fast (as a lot of Rich arrangements were) and doesn't groove as a result. Great players badly utilised. I love the '8.30' version toneknob mentions. THAT swings like a mofo. Buddy Rich, for all his chops, thought Jazz was arm-wrestling (to be fair, so did Zawinul after Weather Report) Warrington does not need to worry about barnets nowadays. If you want to look at barnets, look up the youtube version of the tune by Manhattan Transfer (the band features Wayne Johnson on guitar) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxIo6nrgVa4

I kind of nailed that impossible guitar part last night by playing it on my seven string bass!! It is not perfect but it is close enough for the exercise and I have mixed it all. I will post it as soon as I can. I did learn a lot about recording this month. Every challenge has it's learning points but this month has been exceptional.

Nice work, James. A great album and I agree with you regarding the sax/bass/drumd trio format. My own band has that set up. Did you see my Pattitucci transcription 'Long Story' on here? http://basschat.co.uk/topic/141768-john-patitucci-transcription/page__hl__mistura__fromsearch__1

I have it in the 'Chalres Mingus: More Than A Fake Book' compilation (if you are interested in Mingus stuff, this book is a must have). I will try and copy the chords out for you when I can get to it but someone else may get to it sooner. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Charles-Mingus-More-Than-Books/dp/0793509009/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441958540&sr=8-1&keywords=more+than+a+fake+book+mingus

Wow. I could spend three months learning that. But won't

I would only ever tell ('educate') someone if their goods were dramatically under-priced. If it was over-priced, I would just walk away. I tried a secondhand red Epiphone ES335 out in Ipswich once and it was lovely but it was listed for literally only a £10 less than I could get it for from Thomann. I told them but the manager said he wouldn't move on the price so I walked away and paid the extra tenner for a new one. Cock.

Wynton Marsalis tells a lovely story about a gig he did (why do I think it was in England?) where this happened. The audience of square White Anglo Saxon Protestants were all clapping on 1 and 3 whilst this 7 year old kid at the front, who clearly had not yet been inducted into the world of English Folk music, was clicking his fingers on 2 and 4 and nodding his head like a brother

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1441710815' post='2861030'] I can' t play it. It is too hard. [/quote] Nigtmare. I have basically finished the recording and now need to mix it but I have ended up with a real electric guitar and a VST nylon acoustic guitar that should quite nice when playing is unison (a kind of chorusling effect) but the middle eight section sticks out like a sore thumb so I need to find a way of tempering it to make it sit more comfortablly in the mix. Learned some new stuff about my VSTs, though, which is useful.

I have been working on something that has merit in it's own right but probably won't win many votes as it's relationship with the image is not readily apparent. This month, I have written a guitar trio piece (gtr/bs/dr). In terms of process, I wrote the piece on Sibelius, saved it as a midi file and transferred it to Cubase. In Cubase. I then re-recorded the bass as a real double bass and the guitar as a real guitar, leaving the drum part as the only VST in the final recording. The guitar melody and chord parts are easy enough to play but there is a middle section. And here is the problem. I can' t play it. It is too hard. I am trying to play each phrase and cut and paste them in but, so far, it's a bit sh*t!! If anyone knows Allan Holdsworth, can you ask him if he is available next week?

Just found this. I had seen it before but had forgotten about it. You have to watch it to the end for a little bit of Dudley Moore mischief!! https://youtu.be/CS8Va_z-2bA

Several and it's the best fun. Your reading improves exponentially and you get to play stuff you would otherwise never get anywhere near. I envy you.

[quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1441555930' post='2859767'] But in jazz , does anyone know where the end is When everyone stops. Isn't it? [/quote]

I play Jazz. No-one stays 'til the end.

I just wanted to point out that my thread title was ironic. There is nothing wrong with the production values of modern pop music. I just wanted to register how hard it is for the little guy to keep up with the technology used in producing it. I guess a parallel would be a local group trying to put on a gig in a pub versus a full-on Iron Maiden stage/lighting set up.

I think I saw Saxon at Bristol Colston Hall. Then again, I am old enough to remember when they invaded......

I saw Motorhead in 1981 at Port Vale's Heavy metal Holocaust festival (Motorhead, Ozzy Osbourne with Randy Rhodes, Frank Marino and Mahogany Rush, Triumph and Vardis - what a line up!!. I think I remember the Bomber lighting rig but that might be a false memory. I remeber Marino as I was massive fan but I have no recollection whatsoever of Triumph.

I had a Motorhead fest yesterday and revisited Overkill and. Bomber. Fcuk me, they were loud.

There are increasingly a number of Jazz musicians who also play commercial music more than convincingly (Jason Rebello with Jeffe Beck, for instance). All it requires is discipline and some knowledge/insight into the musics being performed. My point is that, nowadays, this remains exceptional. I have to admit that I am part of the problem and recent events in my own career have brought this home to me. The problem is that to create a polished commercial product of any description takes time that, to my mind and that of many other Jazzers, is not really worth it 'emotionally'. My thinking recently is that surely a polished product will be more satisfying that the thrashing around / that'll do / nearly but not quite approach I have taken for the last two decades!! The idea scenario is properly produced charts (did a wedding last month where this was the idea and it was much better). I can play most genres convincingly and quite quickly if the dots are there but sometimes even that is not enough.

It's aproblem with Jazzers. We know all sorts of stuff about music and have an appalling attitude to commercial musics of any kind. The philosphy seems to be that 'it's pop, it's mostly sh*t and we can play it standing on our heads and probably better'. What they do badly is, for a start, sound. They just turn up with their 'portable' gear and don't really consider the timbre of their instrument as part of the ensemble sound. They see a chord and play 'their' version of it without any insight into voice leading aspects of the [i]song [/i](as opposed to the harmony). They miss out details that are often definitive; riffs, licks etc (I do a commercial gig where they do 'I WIll Survive'. When it comes to that wonderful 'solo' (the one Robbie WIlliams nicked for Millenium), the keyboard player blows a solo - it just sounds so wrong) and are often quite uninformed about genres and sub-genres. They are very casual about starts and endings and can be appalling at 'stage craft' (lots of standing around deciding what to do next). They have their strengths as well; they tend to be better at dynamics and their tempos tend to be a little more centred but, fundamentally, the average Jazzer's attitude to the integrity of commercial music is s***. When they get it right, when they have a respected MD etc, these players can be the absoute best but, being absolutely honest about it, Jazz musicians can, if not 'contained', be an absolute nightamre

They are great for folk who are starting out and want to 'have a go' but for, people who are experienced pros, there are better ways to spend your time and to make connections.

It's all part of the game, isn't it? I have been mostly a one bass man for 29 years now and have always said that one decent professional instrument (ie one that works consistently) and one adequate amp is pretty much all you need. Trouble is, I am now in a slightly different space. I wanted to try some new ideas so got a 7-string bass. I also think that, if you want to slap (which I have never really bothered with), you need a fretted (my 29 year bass is fretless). My double bass amp is ok for electric for the bollocks I do but I am aware that it has shortcomings at higher volumes so I should think about getting a second, meatier amp. I have a Gibson ES175 but it doesn't do rock guitar sounds so I bought a 335 (copy). I like my nylon acoustic but my steel string is about to fall apart. And so it all starts again. I agree that the 'graphite nut' brigade are anoraks but there are certainly some distinctions that matter more than others. P vs. J is not one that I ever noticed but fretted vs fretless, 5-strings for low Bs, double vs. electric etc; some of these are now industry standard.

1) I'm treating the first bar as a lead in bar, so no crochet rest is required - is this correct? [b]YES[/b] - [b]you could add the rest and it wouldn't be wrong but what you have is perfectly acceptable. [/b] 2) The double bar-line is correct as it indicates the start of the tune excluding the lead in? If it was the case that the tune were to continue, and repeats included for a second verse, then this bar-line would be a repeat sign [b]l[/b]l: and the 3 lead in notes of the melody for the second verse would be in the last bar before a repeat sign :l[b]l[/b] [b]YES but scores tend to have a double bar at the start (like the one you have put at the end of your paragraph but WITHOUT the repeat dots). Given the context, you just have to choose whether you want to honour the tradition. I do have Bach scores where the lead in for the B sections are AFTER the repeat bar and do not feature any rests etc as with your opening bar. I think both options are reasonably common.[/b] 3) Should the accidental be a Bb (followed by a B preceded by a natural sign) instead of A#? I think the song may often be sung with an A natural but I think the accidental sounds nicer. [b]No - the A is sharpened not the B flattened as you are in the key of G which is defined by the F# rather than a Gb. In truth, the original melody note is probably the A anyway, rather than an A# - both make a form of sense but the A# is more 'jazzy' and unlikley to have been in vogue when this tune was written (1939). Unless you access the original tune as a piece of sheet music, you will have to make a decision that you are happy with.[/b] 4) I'm leaving the last bar open to indicate the song should continue, and not filling the bar with rests, or cutting it all together. Any thoughts? [b]I think it works best as you have it [/b] I don't want to get this wrong. [b]Understandable but I think some of these 'wrongs' are not wrong in the way a spelling mistake is, just different. Many staff notation 'rules' are not universal and each composer has their own nuances.[/b]

Sutton, Surrey http://www.healeyviolins.co.uk/

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1441215460' post='2857036'] Sorry Bilbo, I'm missing your point! You seem to be saying that bands that don't rehearse and rely on charts only produce "a poor approximation of the original". Quite obviously, the same said band [i]that rehearse[/i] would a make a better fist of things! Are you just saying that the musicians that you're involved with don't rehearse, and that you're not enjoying it for that reason? [/quote] Yes and no. Obviously a band that rehearses would be a good idea but, in truth, properly produced charts and reading musicians can achieve the same outcome but then they would have to have music stands on the stage and we wouldn't want that now, would we?