Bilbo

What does that prove?The inference is that, because they can sing and play their own tunes on acoustic instruments, it validates the playing of a recording of themselves in a 'live' setting. I don't accept that it does. But, then again, i am being a git.

There has always been an argument against 'manufactured' music, music that is put together artificially in a studio setting of some sort and then released as the work of a composer and/or performer. The argument has always revolved around the question 'can they do it live'? As I recall, Rush always worked with the philosophy that they needed to be able to reproduce whatever they recorded in a live setting. They did, however, indulge themselves with the occasional 'studio only' thing (I think 'Losing It' was one of these). I know Queen have struggled over the years to deliver a convincing 'Bohemian Rhapsody' live due to the layered nature of the recording. Rush and Queen would never just turn up at a gig and play the record to the waiting throng!! Miming/playing to bakcing tapes live has historically been sneered at as a 'sell out' and 'fake'. The DJs that have been described here seem to be allowed (?) to 'create' something virtually in their studio space and then just turn up at the gig and press 'play'. I get that there is some sort of layering going on etc and some sort of real time process but that all sounds a bit like a justification to me. Producers, composers and engineers are highly skilled people, in spite of their reputation as just control freaks etc but making a live performance out of producing and engineering seems a bit odd to me. The audience for this stuff clearly doesn't share these values. Why should they?

A lot of Brubeck is quite simple, despite the time signatures.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1439287955' post='2841500'] What is so special about live music? [/quote] It's a beautiful thing.

Couple of things; scale shapes have their uses but they are also a bit of a bear trap. If you put together a scale shaope for a mixolydian scale, for instance, everytime you play a line over a dom7 chord, you can find yourself defining yor options using that shape. OK when you are starting out but you can find yourself unconsiously boxed in if you are not careful. As for reading; I just got a seven string bass and am having to relearn reading not in the sense that the ntoes are in a different place on the stave but in that they are in a different set of places on the bass neck. The main issue is my right hand. Firstly, I am playing the seven string with a pick which changes things a little in terms of cross-string work and, secondly, because the EAD and G strings are now squeezed in between three others!! All ok for simple scale orientated reading but arpeggios and jumps greataer than a sixth are catching me out again and again.

Early in my playing career, I remember being dismissed as a potential bass player for a Rock project because I wouldn't (not couldn't) play with a pick. I have since done thousands of gigs but the two guys who kicked me into touch, whilst still composing/producing music for TV, have never, to my knowledge, done a gig in their lives People have their own sense of reality and that is the end of it. Sometimes their reality clashes with those of others and people say things that sound a bit stupid (like me and DJs at festivals!!). So be it.

I understand the feelings of those who post in favour of this model of working but I can't help feeling that 'you can fool some of the people all of the time.....'. If these people are making their own music before 'playing' it (or 'mixing' it?) live, surely that is the same as Beyonce dancing to backing tapes, isn't it? It is music, that I have no trouble seeing that. it may even be theatre. The bit I struggle with is whether it is 'live music' in any meaningful sense. Obviously, it works for the fans of that genre who will be completely unaffected by the b*ll*cks I am talking.. NB All of the 'I's' in here should leave no-one in any doubt that this is the opinion of an individual who doesn't 'get' a genre, not an attempt to define that genre. If you disagree, feel free to say so. It really doesn't matter.

I thought that gated snare thing was Bowie's legacy from 'Let's Dance'?

Travis is working with Soft Machine Legacy now so a jazz rock/prog connection is there.

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1439214588' post='2840903'] As I always say to them, 'I may not be Mr Right but I'll f*** you until he turns up'. [/quote] Silver tongued. That's what you are.

Some Prog (and Jazz Rock) has dated quite badly.

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1439213455' post='2840891'] audiences of chin-stroking, blokey dotards in belly-bulging Marshall T-shirts. [/quote] Audiences of any kind would be nice....

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1439210273' post='2840830'] Are you still 'aghast' at these artists being programmed at festivals, then, or has there been any understanding in the above..? Not that one has to [i]like [/i]the genre, of course, but at least recognise its legitimacy..? [/quote] Still aghast, I am afraid. I can see that there is a skill to this but, rather like hanging wallpaper or fitting a carpet around a toilet, just because someone has a skill that I lack, doesn't mean they I accept the argument that they should be on the stage!! PS I suspect anyone who likes this stuff quite rightly doesn't give a rat's arse what I think

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1439209654' post='2840822'] Sometimes they're right, of course. [/quote] More often than not, it is the debates that are important and not the conclusions!

Return To Forever were an odd band because they started quite Latin Jazzy and moved into a strange post Mahavishnu Jazz Rock thang. I think there is certainly some proggy elements to it (The Jester and The Tyrant comes to mind) and Al Di Meola has often walked a fine line but I consider most of it to be fusion rather than prog. A lot of it got a bit naff but some of it is pretty impressive.

I remains unconvinced. As I have never danced for more than 12 seconds, I would not consider myself to be part of MC Dynorod's target audience and shall consequently leave the matter rest.

Tomatito did an interesting album with Michel Camilo but I prefer his own flamenco thing. I got into flamenco in a big way many years ago but, sadly, had to leave it behind. I LOVE listening to Nuevo Flamenco but it is not something that I can ever get involved in because there are only a few flamenco guitarists in Felixstowe* and they are all a bit old school for me. * are there f***.

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1439203405' post='2840715'] I'd say that when done well it's a real skill, a real musical talent, more akin to production and engineering than actually playing the instruments, perhaps, but within it's genre completely valid. [/quote] It all sounds a bit 'wannabe' to me. Like darts players calling themselves 'atheletes'.

Having spent the first few years of my Jazz career playing regularly at The Four Bars Inn in Cardiff (the original venue, not the one at the Sandringham Hotel), I woudl argue that the presence of a perfectly credible piano that was rarely moved, a decent PA and a couple of PZMs for miking the instrument, you can improve the experience for all parties, thereby improving the attraction of attendance. We regularly hosted solo pianists and piano players in trio and they sounded wonderful. You can't call guys like Liam Noble and the like and expect them to bring a NORD!! I am not expecting anything to change for the better in this regard but I thought it was worth highlighting what a shame it is that these kinds of venues which cater properly for instrumentalists whose instrument is not portable are not more common.

Am liking Focus 3 - I know some of the tunes (all the hits) but the rest are pretty good too. No Crimson on Spotify!!

I will watch that next time I am laid up with Lymes disease. It will make the time go faster.

Semantics, guys. Not the point. It's not acoustic!! Electric, electronic, electrical? It's not what it is that matters here but what it isn't.

I am now listening to Tarkus. Can't say the Banks recording has anything to worry about It has merit but I have always struggled with Palmer's drumming and there is a 'thrashing about' sensibility that I find less than appealing.

I now have 27 more recordings I need to listen to .

Acknowledging I am both an old fart and a Jazz nazi, I was just reading a BBC article about the demise of the nightclub (apparently they are closing at a rate not dissimilar to pubs). My attention was drawn to the fact that DJs are no w 'playing' festivals. I have to say that I have never 'got' the idea of a DJ as anything other than a bloke that plays records and the idea that these people are now appearing at festivals just leaves me aghast. I only ever have contact with DJs when I do wedding gigs and they are almost always socially inadequate nerds who know an astonishing amount about the music of the 1960s and very little about holding a conversation, particulary if it is with a girl. Now, it appears, they are festival headliners. Has the world gone mad. Oh - and apparently they class themselves as musicians. Can anyone of you youngsters explain all of this to an old feller?