Alec

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1319438560' post='1413965'] So you could set it up with two presets for a song that has passages of quiet, with little overdrive, and loud with lots of overdrive (like, say, Boulevard of Broken Dreams, Green Day)? [/quote] The simple answer: Yes!

[quote name='Booooooom' timestamp='1319121526' post='1410222'] I know that any head-turning GAS lust that inevitably hits every once in a while would be better countered by putting the same or more effort into improving my technique and theory. [/quote] Hear hear! Remember most of your sound comes from your fingers!

I'm happy! Had my Status Empathy built for me around 20 years ago, and have never wanted for another bass. If I did buy another one, it'd be another the same to have as a backup, *just* in case. Was always happy with the sound of my Trace 4x10 combo over the same 20 years, but increasingly struggled with the weight. Rather less happy with my Trace BLX-80 practice combo. Replaced the amps last year with a pair of TC RH450s, one with a GenzBenz NEOX-212T for gigging, the other with a GenzBenz STL-10T for practice/tiny gigs. My back is now friends with me again, and I doubt I'll feel the need to change for another 20 years, by which time I might not even be around!

[quote name='moonbass' timestamp='1318174906' post='1398818'] Now if it only had a tuner I could walk to gigs... [/quote] TC Electronic RH450/750...

[quote name='3rdUncle' timestamp='1317893157' post='1395777'] If I get one that I can carry in a laptop bag as hand luggage I think I should be OK. I'm going to chance it. [/quote] 'Tis exactly what I'd do in the circumstances. Of course, you'll need to discard all the original packaging if you buy new, but that's OK. If you took a local IEC cable with you and changed the voltage before you travel, then it could look *slightly* more authentic if you're stopped. I've never seen anyone stopped for their laptop bag on the way into any country. And, like others said, you're unlikely to be hit by warranty problems. No guarantees (literally!), but should be OK. Of course the best bargains would be Talkbass, or similar second hand sales, if you had a friend in the US to receive them. Then, as well as saving even more cash, the item might not look quite so shiny & new.

[quote name='Davy' timestamp='1317387109' post='1390202'] In the end I bought the TC BG500/210 combo that I tried in Sounds Live. Not quite as lightweight as the RH450 + cabs but I got a good deal (£479 from Sounds Live) and I've decided that if the volume isn't enough then we can upgrade the band's PA with bigger powered bass bins. [/quote] You know what, that's a pretty good move for that price. The main loser you have is that you've got one heavy lump to shift about, but at 32kg, it's hardly the worst package in the world - especially at that price! And, as far as the amp features go, you get a great compromise. You get most of the neat features from the RH450/750 line: tuner, compressor, tubetetone. Heck, you even get presets, albeit less flashy & user friendly than on the RH450/750. Arguably, that combo's a much better proposition than the Classic 450 plus BG cab. Look forward to hearing how you get on with it!

Certainly nostalgia for me, I used to use an HH head & cab in the mid 80s at university, and had then had a combo. Both were great at the time. But yes, heavy, and time has moved on, so wouldn't expect too much, sadly...

Yup, I agree with Alex, sounds like an electrolytic cap has gone - they certainly can stink! Had one go in my Freeview box the other week - could smell it throughout the house! Thankfully, in that case, a quick & easy fix. But doesn't it make you wish that manufacturers would just design in proper auto-sensing power supplies! Though I guess it shouldn't be a surprise from US companies in a country that is barely aware that other countries exist....

Genz Benz NEOX-212T for me. Sounds flipping amazing. And so much headroom, I barely tickle it for most gigs!

[quote name='Davy' timestamp='1316780041' post='1382742'] I've just noticed that the BC212 is only 250w while the BC410 is rated at 500w at 4 ohms which will let the amp head kick out it's full power. [/quote] Good point. I'd assumed the BC212 was 4 ohm & higher power. Though you would *probably* still find the 2x12 capable - maybe worth a play in the shop if they have it? But sure either cab would be great - I'm always keen on the smallest/lightest cab, though! [quote name='Davy' timestamp='1316780041' post='1382742'] I might push the boat out for the RH450 but I can't see the Spectracomp on the front panel. Does it have a compressor? [/quote] Yes it does. You press the shift button, and then the gain knob controls the compressor. It's possibly the one drawback of the RH450, not having a dedicated compressor control, where it does on the Classic & the RH750. If you have to choose between pushing out the boat on the cab or the amp, I'd go for doing it with the amp. Also, consider second-hand. RS212 [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/154298-tc-rs212-cab-and-cover-l340-please/"]here[/url] for £350, RH450 [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/153961-fs-tc-rh450/page__hl__rh450__fromsearch__1"]here[/url] for £550 and others have gone for less in the last month.

[quote name='Davy' timestamp='1316693902' post='1381521'] In an ideal world I'd have the RH450 but to be honest I'm pushing my funds to get this rig and one of the bands I'm in requires that I tune flat and I'm not sure that the built-in tuner does this. No 2x12 instore but I would wouldn't rule one of these out in the future, it'll depend on how I get on with the 4x10. [/quote] Well... The RH450 tuner is a full chromatic tuner, so it'll tune any note, including sharps/flats. Video [url="http://youtu.be/2MduwbmU6zo"]here[/url]. I can't tell you how much better it is to have a tuner that's *always* there, with no need to worry about batteries and extra bits of tut. And, BTW, just *if* you opted for the 2x12 cab, the price you save over the 4x10 would just about cover the extra cost of the RH450. Does depend on the cab you want, but don't buy the 4x10 only because that's what you've already got. I went from a Trace 4x10 to a 2x12, which goes louder and, in my view, sounds way better - not to mention being lighter and more compact for travel. All that said, the Compact 450 & 4x10 should still be a great sounding combination, just make sure you won't have any pangs of regret 6 months down the line!

Sounds like you had a great time! +1 for the built in compressor - great to save on carrying other bits of kit. And, just before you settle on the Classic 450, you're *sure* you wouldn't miss the built-in tuner from the RH450...? The BC410 would still be too big & heavy for me, though a 4x10 is fun! How did you find the sound compared with the other cabs? And, BTW, did you get to try a 2x12 cab (TC do one in the BC line-up, but don't know if they'd have had that one in your shop)? I went from the Trace 4x10 to the Genz 2x12 with no regrets at all - it certainly goes louder, and has a massive bottom end when required. If you fell in love with that, then it's 7kg lighter, smaller and quite a bit cheaper.

[quote name='Alec' timestamp='1316611383' post='1380350'] Based on my own move from a Trace GP12 4x10 combo to an RH450, I suspect you'd have no problem at all moving to the TC Classic 450. [/quote] And, just to elaborate, my decision to move lightweight was based on using another player's Shuttle 6 & Neox-212T, which sounded FAB. I'd have been happy with that, as it sounded great, but on further digging round the market, realised that the RH450 was the one for me. I'll admit that I'm facile and that its looks really won me over, but I also preferred the more flexible EQ section, plus the compressor and the tuner.

Based on my own move from a Trace GP12 4x10 combo to an RH450, I suspect you'd have no problem at all moving to the TC Classic 450. I'd have been happy with the Classic 450, but had to have the RH450 for the built in tuner, and the way cooler looks. However, with the Classic 450 you do at least get a dedicated compressor control, which otherwise you'd have to go up to the RH750 to get. Whatever you get, though, as long as you do some listening, you're almost bound to be delighted with in terms of weight/size reduction and ease of transportation.

The change in finish took place earlier this year I think. I bought my NEOX-212T summer 2010 and it has a carpet finish. They now come with a vinyl finish.

[quote name='chris_b' post='1375217' date='Sep 16 2011, 10:00 AM']From my point of view you already have the best combination, a 110, 210 or 310.[/quote] I'd definitely agree with this view. While I love my STL-10T cab to bits for home use & rehearsals, and at a pinch for small gigs, it really isn't up to full-on gigs by itself - I'll always resort to my NEOX-212T for bigger stuff. What you have is along the lines of my setup - a teeny and a bigger cab. But, as your bigger cab is 8 ohm, you have the added benefit of being able to use both cabs together for a 3x10. Shame about the dimension mismatch, but you've got an incredibly scalable setup there! I do wonder if the Shuttle 3 starts to become the weaker point in a 3x10 setup - it's by no means critical, but it might run out of oomph (I run my Genz cabs from an RH450)

[quote name='aldude' post='1375648' date='Sep 16 2011, 03:45 PM']The S12T is just so loud. I put the volume knob less than 1/3, and also put the preset level (through the "shift" button and Tubetone knob) at 50% to get more accuracy on the volume knob, and the rig still cuts through like a knife... and is still a bit too loud if anything I would expect the same sort of performance with those 2 cabs, slightly louder if anything! Enjoy![/quote] I have the same with my RH450 & Genz Benz NEOX212-T combination. It was simply monstrous when I first used it, and it's great being able to reign it in a little with the preset level, but knowing how much headroom is really available. (just going to prove that it doesn't matter how many watts the RH450 pumps out, as the key issue is that it's capable of providing all the level I need, and then some!)

[quote name='subdude' post='1370157' date='Sep 12 2011, 10:13 AM']so i just get 2 cables with a 1/4 jack to a male XLR?[/quote] Probably, but without knowing what kit you've got at both ends, it's impossible to say for sure! Like Flyfisher says, for a proper job, you should find out if the output is balanced or not. And does the power amp have jack inputs? If so, and if the pre's outputs are unbalanced, there's no great benefit in running over the XLRs, other than their latching capacity.

I was intrigued as to exactly what the +1 / -1 labelling actually meant, so checked the manual for the iAmp 500 and it makes it abundantly clear: "SPEAKER OUTPUTS: Two Speakon connectors, wired 1+, 1-." The +1 / -1 label is simply indicating that the Speakon connectors are wired just as 1+ and 1-, so you can use any 2 way or 4 way connector. Some more cunning bi-amped setups might use +1 / -1 / +2 / -2 to send both signals down a 4-way Speakon cable. Both connectors are wired in parallel so, like others said, you can use either/both of them, subject to the minimum total impedance supported by the amp. And, BTW, in case you're still to buy Speakon cables, I'd always recommend getting cables with 4-way plugs on, rather than 2-way plugs, as the 4-way plugs are much easier to engage/disengage. It's still fine to have these wired with 2-core cable of course. I despise 2-way Speakon plugs!

[quote name='Spike Vincent' post='1353864' date='Aug 27 2011, 08:24 PM']Each to their own. Trace Elliot amps (the early ones,anyway) are the only amps I've ever plugged into and got the sound I want without any fiddling.[/quote] Yup, Have loved the sound out of my Trace GP12 4x10 combo for the last 15+ years. [quote name='Spike Vincent' post='1353864' date='Aug 27 2011, 08:24 PM']Bloody heavy though..[/quote] Yup. [quote name='gafbass02' post='1354007' date='Aug 28 2011, 12:11 AM']I loved my old trace stack. If I could still move it, id still have it I reckon.[/quote] Completely agree! But it was last year's epiphany with modern lightweight gear that moved me on to pastures new. A Genz Benx 2x12 cab that weighs barely more than a third of my combo, plus a fantastically capable TC RH450, and I've never looked back. Well, I do look fondly at the Trace Combo that I can't bare to shed at current prices, but still haven't used since getting the new gear...

[quote name='thodrik' post='1352449' date='Aug 26 2011, 02:11 PM']Apart from the creative watts rating, I though that the BGM magazine gave a pretty good review. The watts issue has been jumped on by Talkbass folk, leading to lots of criticism. Some of the criticism is that a 236 watt amp has been marketed as a 450 watt amp. The fact that it is 236 watts does not make it any less of a giggable amp.[/quote] Well, I think the TalkBass folk, being more US-centric have an affinity for anything home-grown - and TC are a bit too much "them over there" for them. I'd always been struck by how many posts there were saying how good the Genz team were at resolving the problems they've had - I'd rather see fewer posts about having had problems! As for the power, I'm more than happy with the output my RH450 gives me, but then again, I never had any complaints about the paltry 250W that my old Trace 4x10 combo kicked out! To be honest, my joy with my RH450 is less about its power and far more about its form (small, light, cool) and function (tuner, compressor, EQ, valvetone, presets). It has waaay more power than I ever need - if I need more level then I have a PA to support me. I'm still a very happy puppy...

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='1343138' date='Aug 17 2011, 02:13 PM']Otherwise, no, because with his cab in your ears you won't be able to hear yourself. The ears his cab should be aimed at are his.[/quote] Which is exactly why I don't mind a guitar cab stacked on my bass cab, it means that he might turn his down a bit more, as it's more in his face (I make sure it's aimed right at him!). Just as long as it's not firing into my ears! To be honest, I'm happy playing down (level-wise), but it's the guitarists that are my worst problem. Anything that aims the sound at their ears has to be a benefit. I have the same problem engineering at our local venue. One name tribute band had their front man's 4x12 aimed right at my FOH mix position, which was blisteringly loud (though good). Even with his master volume set to 0.5 (from 0 to 10) it was way too loud. And, of course, because it was firing at his knees, it was still too quiet for him - grrr! And that's before we come to the bass player who was set to muffled rumble on stage...

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1336400' date='Aug 11 2011, 01:41 PM']The MB 102 Combo will bury the Shuttle combos, purely because its a bigger box, two speakers, and to be fair, the Combo amp inside it LM2/3 is more poweful than the Shuttle 6.0, nevermind the 3.0[/quote] Indeed, we could almost do with having each candidate plotted against a number of values: cost, weight, and quality (with the latter being the one that's almost completely objective). It's all very well me recommending an RH450 plus STL-10T, but if the budget is only £500, then that's out. Similarly, it depends on how loud the combo needs to go, what kind of music, whether there's PA support, and whether extension cabs can be used. And acceptable weight is all subjective. When I replaced my 60kg Trace combo with a 23kg NEOX 212T, I breathed a sigh of relief. But I'll only shift the NEOX if I have to - for anything else I'll take the featherweight 7kg STL-30T. Heavens, I even moved on my Aguilar GS-112 cab pretty quickly as the 10kg weight was more than the utility it gave me against the competition!

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1336011' date='Aug 11 2011, 08:03 AM']20kg is still a 1 hand lift without strains & can be had for @ £6-700 from the for sale section here.[/quote] Not sure I quite agree. Yes, it's nothing like the 60kg of my old Trace combo that I reallly don't miss at all! However, in my middle age, I wouldn't want to be carrying 20kg very far! With my STL-10T cab in one hand, bass in the other, and RH450 in a bag over my shoulder, I no longer need to park right by the venue. That is completely liberating! Agree about the Promethean if on a budget, though, based on the feature set and positive reviews. Only 12.5kg! None of these teenies will stack up soundwise against a bigger cabinet, but nor should we expect them to. What they do do, at ridiculously low weights, is work admirably for rehearsals and small gigs, whilst also getting away with bigger gigs with PA support (or with additional cabs) - all while saving our backs!