Alec

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1450278218' post='2931291'] Last sentence - [/quote] Sorted - sorry, couldn't see the wood for the trees! What Mackie setup is that, though? As Mackie have quite a range... I share the healthy scepticism for these mini array systems. However, I know K-array get rave professional write-ups. And I did witness one of their teeny systems doing a cracking job with Dexters playing in Abbey Road Studio 3 a couple of years ago - no slouches at all...

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1450273356' post='2931227'] I think he could do himself a favour by staying with the Mackies... [/quote] Which does beg the question as to what PA Scalpy's band is currently using, as I don't think I saw any mention of Mackies...

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1450219399' post='2930753'] Our singer is dead set against grey plastic boxes [/quote] The Yamaha DSR series are wood.

[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1450187811' post='2930366'] This is all making me very nostalgic... doesn't help that I missed a 300w 4x10 SMX combo about 5 miles away last week by 20 minutes... for £150... [/quote] Bet your back was relieved, though!

A good reason for getting another cab to use with your RH450 is that you're using a consistent amp all the time, assuming you deploy the EQ, compression & distortion features - as well as having that great little tuner. This is why I ended up with a second RH450 for practice use, along with a 10" super light Genz Benz cab. I share your discomfort with weight, and shed no tears at the departure of my depleted uranium Trace Elliott 4x10 combo (60kg!!!). The GenzBenz NEOX212T cab that replace it is a peach at 22kg. But it is big and awkward to lift out of the boot (not a problem for me yet, though). I toyed with getting 2 12" cabs to give me the choice of going with a single cab, but I think I'd always have ended up taking both, as 2 sounds *so* much better than one. Mind you, I can't imagine a pub jam situation where a decent modern 2x10, like you aready have, wouldn't be adequate!

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1450180902' post='2930277'] Your use of brackets makes the post a complicated read. Are you saying the FR800 is a passive cab? [/quote] Sorry, done in a rush - now tidied up. And how did I end up thinking that the FR800 was an active cab? Also corrected. Sorry... [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1450187985' post='2930369'] Two RCF 745a. Same sort of concept as the FR800... BUT... 4 inch compression driver - your vocals are gonna sound out of this world... I'm not aware of any competing product that has such a driver. Oh, and they'll sit on the back seats of a Mini with no trouble... although make sure you get some padded Hotcovers to put them in to keep both car and speakers minty fresh. [/quote] Those 15" ART 700 series cabs are HUGE, though. A few years ago, I got to compare a whole load of RCF ART cabs side by side: 310, 710, 722, 325, 725. The 310 and 710 were very similar to each other. What was daft was the amount of level and subjective bass output from such a small driver and cab. The 722 sounded the most gorgeous of the bunch, especially on vocals - which was my number one priority. When I need my system to kick it runs with subs. But the bottom end of the 722s was ace and tight. The odd two were the 15 cabs. The older 325 had an astonishing amount of output, but no bottom end extension - mainly because RCF went cheap and used the same cab as for the 12" 322s. But with a sub it's an absolute monster, albeit quite a bit heavier. The 725 was *so* much bigger than the 722, that was a complete stopper for me. To me it sounded more of a disco speaker. It had a little more bottom end extension than the 722, though surprisingly little, but it wasn't elegant. And its performance on vocals was nowhere near as elegant as the 722. So, for my needs the 722 was a clear winner for FOH use, though I have 4 of the baby 710s for monitoring and smaller PAs. All that said, those models are now superseded by the 745 and the 732, so all bets are off - but I suspect they might not be a million miles away. I'm very happy with my cabs, but of course they're not the only choice. If I were in the market now, I'd be looking hard at the Yamaha DSR line, though the cheaper DXRs are also commendable. And many others are also great deliverers, like Alto Truesonics at the lower cost end. The FR800s don't do it for me. They're expensive compared with the competition, they're big and I don't like their looks. But you also can't get past the fact that they're a niche product that is unlikely to have the resale value that more conventional units have. And I actually don't believe they'd outgun a similar sized quality 15 cab or a rather smaller 12" cab like the ART 722 or DSR 12 - and . But why not take advantage of the trial period? Just make sure you use it to compare them with others, as that kind of money gives you lots of choice.

[quote name='RandomBass' timestamp='1450101103' post='2929540'] I didn't know the LH500 has a parallel effects loop, well there ya go. Bit naff as there's no blend control either, which kinda restricts it somewhat. [/quote] Well, while I don't know, this from the manual implies that it's a traditional parallel send/return loop, as it mentions the use of only reverb/delay effect - nothing about dynamic effects: [color=#000080]EFFECTS SEND jack - Use this 1/4” unbalanced jack to send low impedance (100 ohm) signals from the Model LH500 to a professional outboard effects processor such as a reverb, echo, chorus, flanger, or harmonizer device. EFFECTS RETURN jack - Use this 1/4” unbalanced jack to return low impedance (600 ohm) signals to the Model LH500 and LH1000 from a professional outboard effects processor.[/color] [quote name='barkin' timestamp='1450182989' post='2930306'] I'm pretty sure you're right. [/quote] To test this out, rather than just guessing, plug unconnected cables into both the send and return jacks - I suspect there will be no break in the signal chain, which would tell you that this is a parallel loop. If you lose signal, then it is indeed a serial effects loop (better known as an insert). Although I've never come across an effects send/return which doesn't work this way - although I never realised that for years, which eventually explained why some effects weren't working for me as desired...

Agreed that you'd probably be much better off with some of the more conventional active cabs out there. If you don't need substantial bottom end, you'd probably get away with a decent 10" cab (RCF ART 710, Yamaha DXR12 and many others). Going up to a 12" cab will give way more grunt (and you could extend to the Yamaha DSR range). All of the above come in for way less than the Barefaced FR800 [s](which is passive and so would also need the extra expense & box of an amplifier, and lacks the built in driver protection that actives have)[/s] not to mention rather more compact too.

I too had a BLX-80, but with a horn. Bought second hand for a bargain, I loved it at the time - though just as a home practise & small gig amp, to complement my Trace 4x10 combo. As the years went on, I started to realise that I really didn't like the sound, and hated the weight. Replaced it with a TC RH450 head and Genz Benz STL-10T cab - much smaller, lighter, better (but more expensive). Way happier!

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1449913174' post='2927867'] recently purchased on the sale forum here a nice little dbx160a rack compressor - ive tried this in line in fromt of the amp input and also in the send/return loop (where i am informed it will do its job to best effect) [/quote] I think you could probably do with a little more understanding on either what a compressor does, or what a typical FX send/return does - or possibly even both. Your compressor is basically a automated gain control which will reduce your gain proportionally every time your signal is above a threshold level. If you have the output gain set to 0, it will only produce the same or lower level than the input. This should normally be in-line with the signal. Your FX loop is in parallel with the signal path, and so is really intented for additive effects (like chorus, reverb, delay, flanging). If you put a compressor in the FX loop, all you're doing is adding the compressed signal to the direct signal. No effect will be audible unless you use a whole load of make-up gain (output gain on the compressor) to raise the level of the effect. But it's really not where a compressor should be - unless you're after some unusual effect that I can't think off. And, while I think everyone else is likely to be right in guessing that it's the active pre in the bass that's giving the extra gain - it's worth checking that you don't have some massive make-up gain set on the compressor? Also, there's nothing to stop you, with the compressor in-line with the bass and the amp, using the make-up gain to drop the overall input to the amp. But that's not exactly the most effective gain structure in your signal chain.

[quote name='borisbrain' timestamp='1376668992' post='2177783'] I had TE gear for quite a while and could never knock it, apart from the weight. [/quote] This says it all, really! I had a 1210 combo (4x10") for around 20 years. Ace sound, except every time I had to move it. Spending a load of money to change to a good lightweight rig (in my sig) left me with only relief to say farewell to the Trace. In fact I occasionally encounter my old Trace in a shared line-up. No complaints with it at all in that line-up, as I don't have to move it...

Of course, the OP is just another troll. The most important part of the signal chain is the player, his/her fingers/brain/soul. After this I'd place the bass, the amp and the room (in that order, but not significantly). The cable is just a binary. Yes, cheap crap will let you down, and a fancy schmancy one will make you feel good. But just buy/make a VDC cable with Neutrik ends, and you'll be a happy chap. All for under a tenner - sorted. Now move on.

Again, if you're considering dropping that kind of money, you're in danger of regretting what you get! If you're happy with your tops, then add conventional subs. Small pubs/clubs? Try adding just a single sub, which may well be ample. You don't need stereo subs - the only reason you need 2 (or more) subs is for additional level. Important in small venues, and without large transport, is size & weight. Having a sub under a top loses you no floor space - in fact can even be more compact than a speaker stand. In a small venue, I might have no more than the kick micd up and through the PA - good mic choice & careful EQ can work wonders on getting the best out of this. The rest of the kit may well be doing more than enough by itself. You could consider getting rid of backline, but most people *really* struggle with this. Honestly, don't bother. Don't confuse "full range" speakers with what a sub can achieve. I've never met a 15" cab that can hold a candle to a decent sub plus 10"/12" top.

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1444143343' post='2880634'] You could use a clip-on-headstock tuner and drop the tuner pedal... [/quote] Or an RH450/750 head - again, no tuner needed.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1430828805' post='2764928'] My only worry is stability, it'd be very tall and thin with a heavy amp on top. Don't reckon it would take much to send the entire thing toppling over. [/quote] There's no law that says an amp needs to be on top of cabs, remember...

Came here expecting to see something creative happening with the LEDs on the RH450 head - and then I found this!!!

Oops, have a sneaking feeling I threw one out the other week, having a bit of a clearout..

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1442849164' post='2869976'] Your nearest One10 demo unit is in Bishops Stortford... sorry, this isn't helpful is it? [/quote] I shall ignore this very kind offer (possibly...) [quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1442864943' post='2870142'] It may be small and light but carrying it all of 10 miles could be a problem, [/quote] You'd be surprised. When I take my small rig out for practice, the bass goes in a gigbag on my back, the RH450 head in a laptop bag, and I carry the cab with the other hand. Counter to any previous experience with bass rigs, the bass is the heaviest item, followed by the head, followed by the cab - how often has this ever been the case...

Interesting... I have a GenzBenz STL-10T cab for practise/portable/small gig use with an RH450. *Slightly* smaller in all dimensions than the One10. Obviously, it's nothing compared with the 2x12 cab I normally use, but fab for home use (significantly with the Wife Acceptance Factor) and anything acoustic. I have gigged with it with a full band, with PA support, and it *just* coped - obviously, that's expecting a lot! Would be interested to see how the One10 compares... Damn you GAS!!!

Of course you can! Remember, your cab doesn't "run at" a certain power (wattage), that is simply a maximum power rating. If your amp is rated higher than your speakers, then simply use your ears and common sense to ensure that you're not abusing the speakers (which you could possibly still do with a bigger cab).

[quote name='bassbora' timestamp='1438672177' post='2836196']But after hearing what few of you do I can get a small cab but use my current amp. No point getting another amp if the current one will do the job. I had been thinking it might be too big but you guys have convinced me that will not be the case. [/quote] I've been playing for 35 years and am on my third bass, and third & fourth amps, so I'm more conservative still! If you're happy to keep transporting the 2x10 cab, then it'll likely still give you the best sound, even turned down. A smaller cab - will make life more portable, but be more to store at home and, while sounding great, will still never have as good a sound.

I'd defniitely support the "keep the rig, but just turn it down" approach. I always prefer playing through a bigger rig, even when quiet, as there's more bottom end to the sound - which can make a huge difference to the whole result when playing with others. Though I'd also agree that it would be great if you had 2 12" cabs, rather than the 2x12 that you have, which would give flexibility. But, on the other hand, it's more boxes, and a little more hassle to transport & set up. My rig is RH450s with Genz 2x12 and 10 cabs. 2x12 for pretty much everything, 10 for home practice, taking round for easy practice, and *very* small gigs. It's got the volume, and is great, but can't stand up to the bigger cab.

Is your an active bass? Years ago I used my Trace BL-80 for the first time in ages. I'd noticed the tweeter had a couple of cracks in it, and the sound was horrid - obviously coming from the broken tweeter. Spent a lot of time reparing the damage, and the problem didn't go away. Tried a different amp, problem still there. Then remembered to change the batteries in my bass. Problem solved. Face reddened.

Agreed! It was a kitshare a few years back that suddenly opened my eyes to the option that good & light was finally a practical bass solution. My long love for my 60kg Trace Elliott 4x10 combo was over in an instant, and I was out shopping that evening. Never looked back after my NEOX212T, coupled with an RH450... Way louder, better, and lighter. I winced a bit at the outlay at the time, but that's long forgotten. The only other thing I persuaded myself to do was to buy a STL10T 10" GB cab for home practice, along with a second RH450. The cab obviously has its limitations, but for a 10" cab that's lighter than either the bass or the head, it is insane! I've happily gigged with it too...

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1425385655' post='2706709'] I seem to be the only one on Basschat who practices unplugged :-( [/quote] You're really not alone! In fact, my main practise instrument is an old Hohner G3T (headless Steinberger clone), which I use to practise both guitar and bass parts on. Admittedly, quite a lot of bass stuff has to be done on the real thing - but plenty of "theory" practice is just fine on a six string. A tiny minority will require an amped bass to work on a particular sound, but it really isn't that much. I just don't get all those people who *have* to practice at gig levels...