Help: Setting up a studio

[Beedster]

My dream as long as I can remember has been to set up a studio at my house. There's the possibility that it could now happen. I'm keen to know what you experts out there think I need. Although this is going to be largely to record my own stuff (with the band that is), I will also want to use it commercially as well. Although the budget situation is not concrete, I think £20k is realistic at this point.

All experience, opinion and perspectives gratefully received

Chris

Edited March 31, 2011 by Beedster

[MIJ-VI]

Some reading...

Recording 101 - collection of articles
[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=243949"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=243949[/url]

Recording Gear and Equipment FAQ
[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108890"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108890[/url]

[Beedster]

[quote name='MIJ-VI' post='910769' date='Jul 30 2010, 10:23 PM']Some reading...

Recording 101 - collection of articles
[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=243949"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=243949[/url]

Recording Gear and Equipment FAQ
[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108890"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108890[/url][/quote]

Thanks dude, a lot of reading fro a Friday night! I'll get into it over the weekend

Chris

[CyberBass]

[quote name='Beedster' post='910782' date='Jul 30 2010, 10:34 PM']Thanks dude, a lot of reading fro a Friday night! I'll get into it over the weekend

Chris[/quote]

Chris,
For £20k you should be able to have a good set up, check out my studio equipment etc. Initially done on a similar budget. Any questions don't hesitate to contact me. My website is www.barkingdogstudios.co.uk

Regards
ade

[Beedster]

[quote name='CyberBass' post='910798' date='Jul 30 2010, 10:59 PM']Chris,
For £20k you should be able to have a good set up, check out my studio equipment etc. Initially done on a similar budget. Any questions don't hesitate to contact me. My website is www.barkingdogstudios.co.uk

Regards
ade[/quote]

Thanks Ade, will do

Chris

[EdwardHimself]

£20grand sounds like a good budget for a home studio to me. Obviously any money you make from the studio is not going to really recover the costs as i'm sure you know. The thing is that people want to pay for the expertese of the producer, as much as the studio itself. Also if you're going to drop this sort of money on the studio then it's very important that you take your time and do your research. I think you should set up a thread on your studio build so that you can recieve help from some of the recording experts on here, as well as to satisfy people's curiosities

[ShergoldSnickers]

Having helped build one in the 90s - I personally soldered 450 jack plugs onto patch leads - a task that shouldn't be required to that degree nowadays - I'll point out some of the less obvious things we came across. Less obvious to us at the time that is

[list=1]
[*]Heat. After soundproofing by building a floating floor, ceiling and walls, all fully insulated, we needed an AC unit with ducting to the playing area and control room. You'll also need ventilation to provide a steady supply of breathable air! It's amazing how quickly the heat builds up when gear gets turned on. If you can, put the AC unit in a different room to both the control room and playing areas, and carefully duct the cool air in. We put the AC unit in the control room, and on very hot days the noise was very distracting. Not good.
[*]Control room glass. We used two sheets, one at 25mm thick, and one at 12mm thick with a decent air gap. The weight was enormous and required substantial supports. Domestic double or triple glazed units may be an alternative.
[*]Be prepared to think about monitoring using high quality hi-fi gear. I've found lots of so-called monitors built for studio use to be awful on audition - this still holds true for me, but some of the more modern designs are getting better. We deliberately didn't go for gear that would go painfully loud, as monitoring under these conditions is not conducive to accuracy or comfort! Yes, we got the odd band constantly asking for higher levels, but when we played back songs mixed at high levels and then played back later on ordinary gear, they got the point.
[*]Spend time getting your studio running like clockwork before opening to the public. Know it inside out to the point where you could run it blindfold.
[*]Don't ever use Beyer DT100s headphones as monitoring for recording musicians. Nasty sound. Horribly coloured with little extension at either end, and they rapidly get fatiguing for musicians who need to do lots of overdubs or takes. I got a headache using them. Yes they are robust, but so is a house brick. Go for a modern closed design that enables the musicians to hear everything clearly. This is very important. If you are happy with what you are hearing, you play better.
[*]Mics - These will form part of your studio sound. The quality of the sound up front is vital - lose this by using mics not up to the job and you'll never get it back. The old garbage in garbage out thing. Industry standard mics are a 'safe' way to go, but be prepared to do the research and go against the grain. My immediate response to an industry standard is to challenge it. Industry standards are sometimes there due to lazyness, fear or overblown reputation.
[/list]
Edited for clarity.

Edited August 2, 2010 by ShergoldSnickers

[4-string-thing]

I used to have a home studio which I used to rent out, I made quite a few demo's and bits for local bands (and some not so local) I had nowhere near £20k to spend and it showed! First thing you should do is buy a couple of good books on studio design, second is ignore them and get someone in to do the work for you! Third thing is to realise that you will never, ever get that money back!

If its primarily for your own use, then I suppose getting the money back isn't an issue.

[OliverBlackman]

If your doing your whole band be prepared to spend a lot on mic's and proofing for the drums alone. And don't forget you dont have to buy the big brands for everything. M audio have made some great recording hardware recently.

[ironside1966]

What do you want it for to record a full band or just yourself?
Are you willing to acoustically treat the rooms?
Try not to fall into the trap of I need this preamp for kick that compressor for vocal and so on.
You are best having gear that you really know.
Do you want to go hardware based or computer DAW? The advantages of DAW is more tracks less expensive less room easer to upgrade, and great automation also the mix stays exactly as you left it.
Hardware just works and is more reliable, tape as a character all of its own but it is a pain and very limited.
I would go the software route as you get a lot more for you money PC or Mac up to you the results will be the exact same, Protocols, Logic or Cubase again all capable of a similar result.
What will make the most difference is having accurate monitors, and listening environment then the acoustics in the room you record, either neutral or add character.
Mics Preamps and digital converters (audio Interface) will be next.

[Beedster]

Hi guys

Many thanks for the above. A few more details:

[list]
[*]I'm not looking to recoup the investment! The funding for the project is going to come either from downsizing our current property (we live in the centre of town and are hopefully moving to a cheaper but larger property in the country), or from an interest-free loan that is likely available to me. Either way, this isn't a short-term project, but I want to be fully prepared to start the ball rolling in the right direction as and when possible. £20k is ball-park, but about what I believe is reasonable to do a decent job and provide me with what I will need in the long term. I anticipate this not simply covering the infrastructure (air-con, soundproofing etc), but also everything from the desk, to mics, cables and software (and depending on how things go, a half decent piano). If feasible/practical, I'd also like to start building up the necessary hardware now, i.e., if the right desk came up at the right price, I'd seriously consider buying it even though I may not have a studio in which to install it for another 12 months.
[*]Unless we find a house with a substantial basement, I'll certainly be looking to situate the studio in an out building, and not in a room in the house. I'd be keen to know your thoughts on this also (pros/cons). I'm specifically looking at properties with such outbuildings and don't anticipate having to build my own.
[*]The studio is going to be mainly for my own use, largely to record my band at relatively low volumes. I would like to be able to rehearse in the space, and to record, albeit roughly, on an impromptu basis when needed (i.e., with relatively little hassle setting up, micing etc). If I record other musicians or bands, it'll likely be similar, i.e., low-moderate volume, often involving acoustic instruments (piano, upright bass, percussion etc). I'll not be recording rock/metal etc, this isn't suggesting I don't like rock or metal, it's just that we don't play it and it's not where my enthusiasms or skills lie in terms of recording. I assume that these factors might have a bearing on the degree of sound-proofing/baffling etc required?
[*]I'll be recording to software not to tape. Much as I love the vibe of the latter, I think that going forwards the former is not only going to be more practical, but substantially cheaper. I think it's also going to allow far more versatility and adaptability.
[*]I'm really not sure yet just what sort of acoustic I'm looking for, clinical almost anechoic or something with a little more character. I love the idea of a room that has a character that almost suits the vibe of the band, and one which we will learn to use almost as an instrument. I read a hell of a lot of music history and am fascinated by the stories of bands such as the Stones recording Exile in Richards' basement, or Tom Waits getting p****d off with the 'cleanness' of the studio and consequently recording the entire album, complete with extraneous aircraft engines and police sirens, in the store room next door. OK, extreme examples, and I'll be able to vary the acoustic as and when needed via a variety of methods, but I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on this. Just to clarify, we haven't even found the space/building yet, so nothing concrete will be decided until we know things such as size/shape, building materials etc.
[*]I studied electronic music technology - most of the content of which was related to acoustics, recording theory and recording technology - for three years, but this was almost 25 years ago! So, although I've always been in and around music, I think I'll need some refreshing and would be interested in anyone knows of any appropriate courses/programmes that might be worth my enrolling on whilst I get the ball rolling. I'd also be keen to hear your book recommendations?
[/list]

Think that's all I can think of for the time being

Cheers

Chris

[MythSte]

JamesF is your man for this one, Chris.

He's a member on here and I know has setup some really nice studios in his time. With the amount of good quility but cheap (ish!) recording gear around at the moment 20k will go an awful long way, even with building etc. I'll point him to this thread but you might want to PM him if you have any really specific parts your not sure on

[cheddatom]

You should do a build diary!!

Depending on your location, perhaps soundproofing isn't that necessary IE if you're moving out to the sticks where no-one will hear. Sound proofing is where the main cost will come in I think. I've been able to set up a (bit of a dodgy amateur) studio where we rehearse so we can record every practise. I have two sets of drum mics, 4 nice vocal condensors, plenty of dynamics for the cabs, cables, pre-amps, and I can record up to 24 channels into Cubase at a time - all for under £1k. Also, my room is very "live" but i've learned to love the sound of it, although it did take some EQing of the bass amp to stop the ground quaking.

[OliverBlackman]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='913555' date='Aug 3 2010, 10:01 AM']I have two sets of drum mics, 4 nice vocal condensors, plenty of dynamics for the cabs, cables, pre-amps, and I can record up to 24 channels into Cubase at a time - all for under £1k.[/quote]

Just to have 4 vocal condensors for under 1k is pretty good going, my hats off to you sir

[cheddatom]

[quote name='blackmn90' post='913645' date='Aug 3 2010, 11:01 AM']Just to have 4 vocal condensors for under 1k is pretty good going, my hats off to you sir[/quote]

Yeh I shouldn't have used the word "nice" though. I mean like SE2200s and NT1s

[Beedster]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='913555' date='Aug 3 2010, 10:01 AM']You should do a build diary!!

Depending on your location, perhaps soundproofing isn't that necessary IE if you're moving out to the sticks where no-one will hear. Sound proofing is where the main cost will come in I think. I've been able to set up a (bit of a dodgy amateur) studio where we rehearse so we can record every practise. I have two sets of drum mics, 4 nice vocal condensors, plenty of dynamics for the cabs, cables, pre-amps, and I can record up to 24 channels into Cubase at a time - all for under £1k. Also, my room is very "live" but i've learned to love the sound of it, although it did take some EQing of the bass amp to stop the ground quaking.[/quote]

Agreed, although sound-proofing is obviously a two way street, as much about keeping extraneous sound out as keeping ours in, Much as I'd like the space to have a vibe, the sound of distant farm machinery grinding away during the second verse might be a little too much character, as might the sound of the potential Mrs Beedster pulling up outside with her car stereo on 10!

I think the build diary could well happen.

Cheers

C

[Beedster]

I think I'm going to start looking at the control room first, specifically recording media and desk. I would really appreciate your thoughts on the following:

Mixing desk
1. how many channels?
2. new or used?
3. dedicated software model (i.e., designed to work with computer), or generic
4. best manufacturer/models?

Computer/software
1. laptop/desktop?
2. PC or Mac?
3. Software?

Cheers

C

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Beedster' post='915957' date='Aug 5 2010, 01:47 PM']Agreed, although sound-proofing is obviously a two way street, as much about keeping extraneous sound out as keeping ours in, Much as I'd like the space to have a vibe, the sound of distant farm machinery grinding away during the second verse might be a little too much character, as might the sound of the potential Mrs Beedster pulling up outside with her car stereo on 10!

I think the build diary could well happen.

Cheers

C[/quote]

Yeh, of course. At my place we get lorries and all sorts, but not too much as I only record after hours. I think the fact i'm only really doing loud rock music helps, although I did an acoustic album with a young guy, and that went really well - we just had to re-do a couple of songs because of engine noise.

Mixing desk - I really like the protools mixers with integration with the computer. I think it works really well. I think they're probably out of your budget, but I wouldn't know for sure. It would deffinitely be nice to have some sort of physical control over your DAW. I have a steinberg houston, which isn't the most amazing product ever, but I got it used on here for £100ish, and it's great for transport, and for mixing and automation.

I won't suggest an actual mixer as obviously you could afford one with nice pre-amps etc and I try not to look at gear I can't afford. However, deciding on the number of channels shouldn't be too hard - how many mics do you want to record simultaneously? Add 4 to that number for good measure.

RE the computer, it's all down to preference. I like Cubase and PCs, but I also like Pro Tools. I use PCs and windows because I know how, not because they're better than Macs.

I deffinitely think you're looking at a proper tower rather than a laptop though.

[OliverBlackman]

For computors your going to need something with a) lots of power and b ) lots of memory. I would personaly go for a mac just because windows is flooded with viruses that have ruined my laptop countless times. Also make sure with whatever software you have it has plenty of room to breath (how much memory it requires). At a school studio we were often faced with a blue screen as the computor just lacked the power for all the plugins and software.

Edited August 5, 2010 by blackmn90

[cheddatom]

[quote name='blackmn90' post='915997' date='Aug 5 2010, 02:16 PM']For computors your going to need something with a) lots of power and lots of memory. I would personaly go for a mac just because windows is flooded with viruses that have ruined my laptop countless times.[/quote]

I don't plug my studio PC into the net - just an idea.

[escholl]

[quote name='Beedster' post='915968' date='Aug 5 2010, 01:54 PM']I think I'm going to start looking at the control room first, specifically recording media and desk. I would really appreciate your thoughts on the following:

Mixing desk
1. how many channels?
2. new or used?
3. dedicated software model (i.e., designed to work with computer), or generic
4. best manufacturer/models?

Computer/software
1. laptop/desktop?
2. PC or Mac?
3. Software?

Cheers

C[/quote]

How much of your 20K are you looking to spend on a mixing desk? Remember you will need all the less glamorous things too like acoustic treatment (and plenty of it -- it's not all about sound proofing, but room acoustics! A good recording starts with a good room, good mic technique, and a good mic -- everything after that is a correction, so make sure you've got a good room!) and cabling, stands, racks for any rackmount equipment, etc.

Anyways, what I would say is that before getting a desk you should decide what system you are going to use. I would choose a Mac desktop for this, which leaves either logic or protools (or cubase...but i would suggest not using cubase). Now, there's a variety of choices you've got here. You can run a fully analogue desk, and use the Mac effectively as a tape machine, recording through the desk pre's, then through the tape sends on each channel, and mixing down through the returns -- a good system but you won't have any control of the DAW through the desk. Or, you could go the other way, and feed some rackmount mic pre's straight into the soundcard, and use a control surface to control the DAW.

This second option is what I would most likely choose to do. If you start with 16 channels that should be enough for most things, and then get a control surface to let you control the DAW. Remember, protools has their own line of DAW controllers, so if protools is the path you want to take, you will need to take that into consideration as well.

Edited August 5, 2010 by escholl

[cheddatom]

[quote name='escholl' post='916068' date='Aug 5 2010, 03:04 PM']i would suggest not using cubase[/quote]

How come?

[ironside1966]

If you go the Mac route logic is a good price If you go the protocols route I would try to get the TDM as the LE version as no plug-in timing compensation which is not a problem unless you use a dedicated effects card like the Focusrite Liquid Mix or SSL Duenda they are both are vast improvement on native plug-ins.
I use Cubase with Focusrite Liquid Mix or SSL Duenda works well for me.
Cubase is great for midi but they all the Daw software are equal so just pick hat works for you, download some demos and have a play.
I wouldn’t bother with a desk just get some preamps I would go for 16 should be more than enough.

[escholl]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='916073' date='Aug 5 2010, 03:07 PM']How come?[/quote]
In my experience, it's really not up to the same standards as Logic or Protools LE or HD system, or even Sonar for that matter -- I found some particular things about the user interface to be rather frustrating versus other DAWs. Sonically, there is not any difference, it's all down to the workflow ease and user interface. I know a lot of people use it and like it, but for a studio, it would not be my recommendation.


Also, if he is hoping to get some business out of this, for compatibility reasons it would be best to use Protools, followed by Logic -- this allows artists and producers to directly import any projects into the system in the formats they are most likely to have used to create the project in another studio, in addition to giving the greatest amount of familiarity to anyone else who may be using the system.

[ironside1966]

I never got on with Logic I just didn’t make sense to me.
There are ways of exporting projects from one DAW platform to another I do it all the time but it is a good point if you need to do it a lot. The only time it becomes a problem is when you use the native plug-ins but IMHO that is the weakness of all the software platforms.