Can I use a power amp with my little bastard?

[sk8]

[quote name='cameltoe' post='893656' date='Jul 13 2010, 01:01 PM']Cool how does this sound? Looks mean![/quote]

Sounds great. the LM3 is pretty uncoloured and i left the controls flat and it seemed to produce the LB's tone nicely. Not run this up tot full yet as the LB is keeping up at practice with one AE210 so i'm hoping that the 412 will move enough air to gig with

[quote name='cameltoe' post='893656' date='Jul 13 2010, 01:01 PM']Cool how does this sound? Looks mean!

Bear with me;

Is the balanced input just an input that bypasses the preamp? Ideally, I wouldn't want the tone to be coloured too much, just the signal to be boosted. If I can do this somehow with a regular bass head (i.e LM3) , great, then I also have a head for my other band that requires a cleaner tone. Otherwise I'll need just a power amp I guess.[/quote]
The balanced input is there so you can connect up a DB or similar. It still goes through the pre amp. It just convinient for me as i have power amp and back up amp in one package

[Colledge]

there are quite a few amps out there with a poweramp in. its just a case of looking at a few spec sheets.

[dannybuoy]

So what options are there for a dummy load? A 4-ohm lightbulb?!

[cameltoe]

[quote name='dannybuoy' post='893899' date='Jul 13 2010, 04:34 PM']So what options are there for a dummy load? A 4-ohm lightbulb?![/quote]

Yeah I'd like to know this!

I've no idea what to use in that instance. Not something I've had to deal with before.

I guess I need to know which way to go with this.

I'm going to need another head for my other band, as the LB is just too fat and thick sounding, so....

I could either rip the HA3500 head out of my Hartke combo and use that for the other band, PLUS buy a cheap power amp to boost the LB

I could buy one amp head to do both (i.e a little mark or similar) which has a power amp in it.

I could buy a regular amp head (or use the Hartke) to do both- but wouldn't this affect the tone of the LB? With the above comments I'm presuming you need the power amp stage rather than just pre-amp.

[umph]

[quote name='dannybuoy' post='893899' date='Jul 13 2010, 04:34 PM']So what options are there for a dummy load? A 4-ohm lightbulb?![/quote]

there are the marshall power break type things, if you'd like to spend a little less though i can knock you up a box with some resistors and a fan in it or show you how.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Colledge' post='893759' date='Jul 13 2010, 02:27 PM']there are quite a few amps out there with a poweramp in.[/quote]

Heh, yeh, just a few!!!

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='cameltoe' post='893930' date='Jul 13 2010, 05:02 PM']Yeah I'd like to know this!

I've no idea what to use in that instance. Not something I've had to deal with before.

I guess I need to know which way to go with this.

I'm going to need another head for my other band, as the LB is just too fat and thick sounding, so....

I could either rip the HA3500 head out of my Hartke combo and use that for the other band, PLUS buy a cheap power amp to boost the LB

I could buy one amp head to do both (i.e a little mark or similar) which has a power amp in it.

I could buy a regular amp head (or use the Hartke) to do both- but wouldn't this affect the tone of the LB? With the above comments I'm presuming you need the power amp stage rather than just pre-amp.[/quote]

A power amp to use with the LB, plus a nice preamp pedal, like a sansamp or something, that has the juice to run a power amp, should cover you. Maybe the Tonehammer, although I dunno what the output is like on them, but its a clean machine compared to the driveyness of the LB, and figuring that's what you are after for other band. Probably the most budget/good option.

[cameltoe]

I have a Hartke bass attack, don't know if that's any good. If it is, then I need only get a power amp.

Will a standard bass amp head like my HA3500 not run the LB then, or are we delving into destroying the tone of the LB by doing that?

I don't understand what the pro's and con's are to just having a power amp, or having something like SK8 has above, with the LittleMark boosting the LB and then doubling as a spare head for the other band.

Obviously I want cheap, I want good, and I want the LB's tone to be unchanged, if possible.

Asking too much, I presume.

[Mr. Foxen]

I think the bass attack will act as a preamp. Downloading a manual to have a check - says it has line level output.

Advantage of a power amp is the amount of power you get to cost. Plus they are made to be uncoloured. If you other amp has an FX loop, usually you can plug into the fx return to go straight to the power section and bypass the preamp, effectively rendering it a power amp and the LB as the preamp.

[velvetkevorkian]

If you have a combo already, why not try it with that first? It might sound great. It might not, but you'll be able to narrow down what you want a bit more. Otherwise you're kinda flailing in a sea of different options with insufficient data to make an informed choice.

[cameltoe]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='894058' date='Jul 13 2010, 06:58 PM']I think the bass attack will act as a preamp. Downloading a manual to have a check - says it has line level output.

Advantage of a power amp is the amount of power you get to cost. Plus they are made to be uncoloured. If you other amp has an FX loop, usually you can plug into the fx return to go straight to the power section and bypass the preamp, effectively rendering it a power amp and the LB as the preamp.[/quote]



Thanks for the help!

So more than a few options here

I'm going to look at a few possible trades for a decent amp head with a good power amp, or a standalone power amp.

In the meantime I'm going to go and plug the little bastard into the Hartke combo and see what happens.

Lookout for the thread that's coming...'I think I blew up my little bastard'

[cheddatom]

just make sure there's a load on your LB

[cameltoe]

I will!

Stupid question time again- how come you can't just take the output of the LB from the speaker out rather than the DI? Not that I'm about to do this, just wondered

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='cameltoe' post='894607' date='Jul 14 2010, 12:34 PM']I will!

Stupid question time again- how come you can't just take the output of the LB from the speaker out rather than the DI? Not that I'm about to do this, just wondered[/quote]

Impedance again. An input on an amp is usually 1 or 2 thousand ohms (I think), which there isn't a tap for, even if you could turn the output down enough to be appropriate.

[Bloodaxe]

[quote name='cameltoe' post='894607' date='Jul 14 2010, 12:34 PM']I will!

Stupid question time again- how come you can't just take the output of the LB from the speaker out rather than the DI? Not that I'm about to do this, just wondered[/quote]

Too big. Too many volts [i]and[/i] amps, which will probably result in the magic smoke escaping from something.

If the LB doesn't have a Line Out jack, you should be able to run one from the FX loop Send socket. This is what I do with my Superfly indoors, except I run the FX tap into the Aux In on my PC soundcard.

Pete.

[cameltoe]

Ok cheers! I'll use the XLR DI socket then.

[cameltoe]

This thread is going on and on......


Would another option for added volume be to use another cab? As stated in the showoff thread I started, I bought the matching 2x12 cab to go with the LB. This cab is 4 ohms, apparently, but the amp has both 4 ohm and 8 ohm outputs. Does this mean I can use both the 4 ohm cab I already have, plus hook up an 8 ohm cab and run both for extra volume?

Would this put too much stress on the amp?

Go gentle with me, I'm new at this

Edited July 14, 2010 by cameltoe

[SuperMaximo]

I don't think it would be a good idea, I'm not sure what impedance the amp likes but I had a look at the manual and there wasn't a diagram for both speaker outputs being used (there was for configurations using one output), so I think using both would be a no no. The minimum impedance is probably 4 ohms and with 4ohms+8ohms you'll have... Uh... Less than 4 ohms

Edited July 14, 2010 by SuperMaximo

[obbm]

[quote name='cameltoe' post='894984' date='Jul 14 2010, 07:24 PM']This thread is going on and on......


Would another option for added volume be to use another cab? As stated in the showoff thread I started, I bought the matching 2x12 cab to go with the LB. This cab is 4 ohms, apparently, but the amp has both 4 ohm and 8 ohm outputs. Does this mean I can use both the 4 ohm cab I already have, plus hook up an 8 ohm cab and run both for extra volume?

Would this put too much stress on the amp?

Go gentle with me, I'm new at this [/quote]


No, no, no, no, no, no. Not designed for both outputs to be used at once.

Once again you will screw up the output valve loading. It's one or the other, 4-ohms worth of speakers on the 4-ohm output or 8-ohms worth of speakers on the 8-ohm output.

[cameltoe]

[quote name='obbm' post='894997' date='Jul 14 2010, 07:38 PM']No, no, no, no, no, no. Not designed for both outputs to be used at once.

Once again you will screw up the output valve loading. It's one or the other, 4-ohms worth of speakers on the 4-ohm output or 8-ohms worth of speakers on the 8-ohm output.[/quote]


Ok thanks Churchill dog!

[cameltoe]

What I'm going to do- I think- is try the LB with the LB cab, DI'ed (or effects send) to the effects return of my little 150w Trace combo (gp7 sm). Therefore the LB should be driving the LB cab, and the Trace should be boosing the LB signal to drive the 15" Trace speaker.

[dannybuoy]

The FX loop will be pre-power amp so won't sound as tasty as the DI which is tapped off of the output transformer after the power tubes work their magic.

[obbm]

As a casual observer of, and occasional participant in, this thread it strikes me that you are trying to "make a silk purse out of a sows ear" in that the LB is a nice toy but isn't really what you need.

Back in the 60s, 30-watt bass amps were barely enough - I know because I had one - and it always driven into distortion just to be loud enough. Since then other instruments have got a lot louder which has just aggravated the problem and why 300/500 watt bass amps are now the norm, regardless of how loud you actually need them to be.

If valve sound is what you want then perhaps a 100-watt, or even a 200-watt, all-valve head would have been a more appropriate choice.

Good luck with your experiments.

[cameltoe]

Oh believe me it is a toy, and a good one. Loud for 30w.

I have gigged it and used it at a full volume rehearsal alongside a metal drummer and a guitarist rocking a BlackStar 20w valve amp through a marshall 4x10, with the amp cranked up to almost max.

The little thing kept up, too! Although there was not much headroom.

I wouldn't hesitate to use it on it's own, at a smaller gig, but I feel once I get to a medium sized gig, a packed out pub or on a small stage or something that I may need a touch more headroom. I have 3 other amp combo's I can use to try and create enough volume, so I'm seeing if there is a way of doing this.

Big gigs, fesitvals etc with good FOH equipment means I can just line out. All good.

But it's those gigs in the middle, where we use our own PA (no subs) that I'd like the valve tone to cut through and not be lost. People get round this with their solid-state amps by using extra extension cabs, etc, and I would normally take my Hartke vx3500 combo instead of the smaller Trace, but now I have the LB, and a fine beast it is too, I'm searching for a compromise.

a 200w valve especially, probably wouldn't get driven as hard as I'd like!

Although in an email to Mark Gooday recently he did mention they will be adding a 100w all valve to the current line up, to be as small as they can get it.

Cool!

[dannybuoy]

100W is the sweet spot for me for an all valve amp, where you can easily driver the thing but still be able to play medium size venues. I look forward to the Little Bastard's big brother making an appearance!