Important changes to the marketplace

[Chest Rockwell]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='948847' date='Sep 7 2010, 09:30 PM']Whenever I see that I always think "What are they trying to hide?" [/quote]

glad Im not alone!

[Machines]

We often get messages asking us to delete a post because it's sold - hmmm nope. We can't stop people editing their posts but there's just no need to remove them. It's good to be able to look through a sellers history or similar items to get a feel for what to expect and compare prices.

[chris_b]

I agree. Putting SOLD next to the description is very helpful and a history of sales is a very good thing. What are these guys trying to hide?

Guys please leave the ad and indicate if the item is sold.

[Guest]

I always tend to change my sold stuffs title and description to sold, as I get pretty annoyed with people messaging me months later about things even when it has SOLD in the title beside what the item was. I figure people will always look at my feedback before buying from me to see I am a good seller, not previous for sale threads.

[Chest Rockwell]

[quote name='thedontcarebear' post='949503' date='Sep 8 2010, 03:16 PM']I always tend to change my sold stuffs title and description to sold, as I get pretty annoyed with people messaging me months later about things even when it has SOLD in the title beside what the item was. I figure people will always look at my feedback before buying from me to see I am a good seller, not previous for sale threads.[/quote]

SOLD is fine, that's very helpful, but removing the sale price isn't. not that you have (have you? )

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='zaochen' post='950169' date='Sep 9 2010, 04:59 AM']For this, is only, ok? Is you![url="http://www.wifirobin.com/"]hack wifi[/url][/quote]
From the darkside you have come. To push the Report Button I must do.

[Jigster]

[quote name='Chest Rockwell' post='949290' date='Sep 8 2010, 11:40 AM']glad Im not alone![/quote]

trying to hide what?

[Guest]

[quote name='Chest Rockwell' post='949609' date='Sep 8 2010, 04:51 PM']SOLD is fine, that's very helpful, but removing the sale price isn't. not that you have (have you? )[/quote]

Like I said, I always tend to!

And you can see from my feedback too now, the last item I did it for has arrived with the new owner and they are very happy.

[chris_b]

[quote name='thedontcarebear' post='951615' date='Sep 10 2010, 10:57 AM']....Like I said, I always tend to!....[/quote]
And like we're saying... please don't!

[Guest]

Sorry, but I don't want PMs from stupid people that don't read it properly saying its sold! Maybe there should be a sub forum where sold items can be moved to.

[hoiho]

[quote name='thedontcarebear' post='951734' date='Sep 10 2010, 12:36 PM']Sorry, but I don't want PMs from stupid people that don't read it properly saying its sold! Maybe there should be a sub forum where sold items can be moved to.[/quote]

If you use the [s]strikethrough[/s] on the price, and put [b]SOLD[/b] beside it, then even fools won't PM you, but the price will still be visible.

[Al Heeley]

I do not want to be contentious but why is the forum strict about comments questioning prices? If someone comes on with a price which is thought to be high, what is the problem with airing an opinion about it? The poster can either ignore it, sell it to someone who is happy to pay the asking price, or they may take the advice and lower it to be more realistic?
It seems to hit a bit of a nerve with the mods yet I don't think there's anything inflammatory about saying "You can buy one new for that sort of price", etc. You are just expressing your own opinion, which is kind of one of the driving points of a forum.

[Beedster]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='1287944' date='Jun 30 2011, 04:37 PM']I do not want to be contentious but why is the forum strict about comments questioning prices? If someone comes on with a price which is thought to be high, what is the problem with airing an opinion about it? The poster can either ignore it, sell it to someone who is happy to pay the asking price, or they may take the advice and lower it to be more realistic?
It seems to hit a bit of a nerve with the mods yet I don't think there's anything inflammatory about saying "You can buy one new for that sort of price", etc. You are just expressing your own opinion, which is kind of one of the driving points of a forum.[/quote]

Dude, I'm 100% with you, but I think it's been done to death in various threads (and PMs) and I imagine it's staying the way it is by popular consent

C

[Al Heeley]

Fair enough, I missed all the debate - probably out playing bass somewhere....

[Beedster]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='1287973' date='Jun 30 2011, 04:53 PM']Fair enough, I missed all the debate - probably out playing bass somewhere.... [/quote]

A worthy excuse

[Machines]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='1287944' date='Jun 30 2011, 04:37 PM']I do not want to be contentious but why is the forum strict about comments questioning prices? If someone comes on with a price which is thought to be high, what is the problem with airing an opinion about it? The poster can either ignore it, sell it to someone who is happy to pay the asking price, or they may take the advice and lower it to be more realistic?
It seems to hit a bit of a nerve with the mods yet I don't think there's anything inflammatory about saying "You can buy one new for that sort of price", etc. You are just expressing your own opinion, which is kind of one of the driving points of a forum.[/quote]
Ok, let's flip it round.

You put your bass up for sale at what you think is a reasonable price. I post on your thread "you're having a laugh mate, this price is a rip off !". Anyone seeing this who may have been interested are likely to be put off (they may not be that knowledgeable themselves). According to your rules - that post stays there, you may disagree with me and then more people chip in and then we have a slagging match (this is a common theme from prior to this rule being enforced). As moderators, we have enough to do without having to intervene in threads between bickering people with differing opinions.

The simple rules of supply and demand will determine if the price is too high, if you feel that strongly then PM the seller with your advice, don't undermine their thread. I would rather this took place than having to remind people all the time.

[Al Heeley]

I don't want to reopen the debate , but that's not really a very strong argument, you're making a pretty big assumption that most people are swayed by one (or more) posts from opinionated people. The internet is full of opinionated people, some of who are wrong. You have to make your own mind up and if it's an item you want and you think the price is fair then you will pay it.
If it doesn't sell, then obviously the community deem the price to be too high. In that case you drop your price or try elsewhere.
You are making the assumption that people are easily swayed - well some are and some are not. I don't think it's right to judge all forum members as subsersives or sheep, they should have the right to their own opinions and judge for themselves accordingly.
I'm quite cool about adhering to the rules of the forum that I enjoy being a member of, I was just curious as to the reasoning behind the zero tolerance attitude to this subject. I reserve my right to think I've not heard a very good reason for it yet

Edited June 30, 2011 by Al Heeley

[Johngh]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='1288300' date='Jun 30 2011, 10:15 PM']I don't want to reopen the debate , but that's not really a very strong argument, you're making a pretty big assumption that most people are swayed by one (or more) posts from opinionated people. The internet is full of opinionated people, some of who are wrong. [b][/b]You have to make your own mind up and if it's an item you want and you think the price is fair then you will pay it.[b][/b]
If it doesn't sell, then obviously the community deem the price to be too high. In that case you drop your price or try elsewhere.
You are making the assumption that people are easily swayed - well some are and some are not. I don't think it's right to judge all forum members as subsersives or sheep, they should have the right to their own opinions and judge for themselves accordingly.
I'm quite cool about adhering to the rules of the forum that I enjoy being a member of, I was just curious as to the reasoning behind the zero tolerance attitude to this subject. I reserve my right to think I've not heard a very good reason for it yet [/quote]


Al, Machines is right. All the Mods do a hell of a lot of work behind the scenes to keep Basschat afloat, and deal with a lot of complaints sent to us via PM about various threads. At one time the main area of problems was pricing queries in the for sale forums.
The members on here are not mugs, and if someone is daft enough to try to sell a Squire Jazz for £800 it ain't going to sell is it. The same goes for any bass that is overpriced.
It just gets tedious when someone who has no interest in buying a bass whips up a storm on someones for sale thread by questioning the price all the time, if folk what to challenge a price, it's better done by PM.

[Rich]

John's right; if we had a tenner for every time we'd received a complaint along the lines of "{user} has hijacked my FS thread and is wrecking my chances of a sale, can you have a word please?", then our secret mountaintop headquarters would have a lot more priceless works of art on the walls than it currently does. This is precisely why the rule exists, and to be honest I can't see why it's such a contentious one. All it means is writing a PM rather than a public post.

[wateroftyne]

I can understand the price thing, but I still disagree with this bit 100%.

[quote]4. If you have a concern with the authenticity/originality/provenance/description etc of an item for sale, do not comment on the seller's thread as these comments will be removed by a moderator. If you believe an item to be fraudulent then please PM a moderator and we will do our best to arbitrate - otherwise simply move along.[/quote]

This makes no sense, IMO.

[Beedster]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='1288551' date='Jul 1 2011, 07:54 AM']I can understand the price thing, but I still disagree with this bit 100%.



This makes no sense, IMO.[/quote]

To be honest mate, that rule doesn't get enforced to the same degree as the price rule. I suspect that the mods and the members see such questions - if asked appropriately - as legitimate information seeking. OK, if you say "it's fake" it's likely to get a negative response from the mods and perhaps fairly so. If an expert like yourself asks for evidence that an original finish [i]is[/i] in fact original, and furthermore, what evidence the seller has for his response, it is generally accepted as legitimate (note the discussion regarding the recent FS 3tsb '64 Precision [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=140995&hl=)"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=140995&hl=)[/url]. I think it's widely recognised that if this type of questioning was stamped on, there'd be a lot more ringers for sale on the forum, and that it would have a very negative effect on the vibe here.

Edited July 1, 2011 by Beedster

[chris_b]

The usual trolling post is, "I can get one of these down the road for half the price!"

Who cares? The item sells or it doesn't, the OP makes his price and that's his business.

For Sale threads should stay on topic and not be hijacked by others expressing negative opinions. Correcting factual inaccuracies would still be better done by PM but comments on the price are completely irrelevant.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1288671' date='Jul 1 2011, 09:55 AM']Correcting factual inaccuracies would still be better done by PM....[/quote]
I agree, but if the seller chooses to ignore it, then they're fair game IMO.

[chris_b]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='1288693' date='Jul 1 2011, 10:07 AM']....I agree, but if the seller chooses to ignore it, then they're fair game IMO....[/quote]
I think "fair game" is the wrong phrase, but, yes, go public if you're sure you're right and they are wrong.

[Beedster]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1288702' date='Jul 1 2011, 10:12 AM']I think "fair game" is the wrong phrase, but, yes, go public if you're sure you're right and they are wrong.[/quote]

The majority of sellers really don't mind that type of questioning as it builds the trust of the potential buyer(s). The type of seller who does resent it is one who either knows he's misleading the potential buyer, or one who suspects that this is the case (i.e., is hoping that the bass he bought from a guy on ebay and is now selling is legit), and is burying his head in the sand. The latter are the extreme minority here. although I could point you to a couple of threads in which the seller has clearly bought a wrong 'un (not his fault you could argue) and was trying to pass the bass off on the same terms as which he bought it.

I was at fault in this latter respect about three years ago. I listed for a sale a fretless Jazz bass that I had bought on ebay, and a problem with my description was pointed out quite publicly. I did my homework - with the help of the guy who had pointed it out - and after along story, got some money back from the original ebay seller [u]6 months after the original deal[/u]! In a way, that's what Basschat is about to me. It's all very well to to say that we shouldn't comment, but in doing so we are surely only doing one of two things (with apologies for repeating myself)

1) pointing out a legitimate problem and saving another BCers a lot of money and trouble; or
2) by allowing the seller to get into detail and demonstrate expertise, building the confidence of potential buyers in the seller and the item.

Both of these are surely positive additions to a thread [u]if done appropriately[/u]?

I think this is relevant! I was looking for a Rickenfaker a while back and found one I liked. It them transpired that the seller had complained to a mod and several posts in the FS thread had been removed. I was immediately put off the bass, as clearly other BC members had made derogatory comments and clearly the seller hadn't been able to respond or hadn't dealt with them well. Furthermore, I could no longer see what these comments were, so I wasn't going to take a risk on either the seller or the bass. It seems however that the bass was legit - or as legit as a RF can be - so simply complaining to a mod that the thread was receiving too much interrogation didn't do the seller any good at all?

C

Edited July 1, 2011 by Beedster