Jesso Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Here's my question. My band has a van, which is insulated (i.e. wood panels with some insulation behind them) and is kept in a shed. We gig a lot, and it's a huge amount of bother to unload the equipment when we get home (sometimes it could be 5am in the morning). Everyone is knackered, so we usually just leave everything securely locked away in the van. Sometimes the gear could stay in the van for up to a week, but usually it's only a night or two. I know that it's probably ok to leave the P.A. and even the amps in the van overnight when it's cold, but I feel like over a long period of time it might be bad for guitars. We keep them (obviously) in their cases. Sometimes when I bring them in from the van they are really cold... I've read that you should try to treat instruments as you would treat a person (temperature wise)... but I don't know if thats true or not. So far, I haven't noticed any bad effects, and my bass has not warped or anything wierd. It's a modern Fender Stu Hamm urge. I'm thinking about making a vintage P bass (valuable!) into my main gigging bass, so I'm a bit cautious about leaving it in the cold... Would a top of the line insulated flight case be any better than the normal fender case? Any ideas much appreciated. Jesse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 What about a padded gig bag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokl Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Hi mate. Beware! The finish on one of my basses was ruined last winter as we had some problems with insulation and central heating (ie cold) in a house that we we were living in at the time. I think the main thing to avoid is going from extremes ie very cold to very warm (like from the van into a warm hall). Give the instrument time to warm up in its case if you can and you should be okay. Nitro finishes are very prone to checking as a result of temp change, so watch that vintage P....(shouldn't really be leaving it in the van anyway!) lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesso Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 [quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' post='690111' date='Dec 20 2009, 08:23 PM']What about a padded gig bag?[/quote] Maybe a gig bag would give good insulation, but I don't trust gig bags in the back of a van with all that heavy stuff with curshing potential! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodaxe Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 [quote name='Jesso' post='690110' date='Dec 20 2009, 08:22 PM']I know that it's probably ok to leave the P.A. and even the amps in the van overnight when it's cold, but I feel like over a long period of time it might be bad for guitars. Jesse[/quote] I'd personally be very cagey about leaving electrical equipment in the van for any length of time. If an amp (f'rinstance) has been in the cold for a while & becomes "well chilled" & then brought into the warm there's a risk (albeit small) of condensation forming within it - & water and electricity are well known for not getting on. I trust there's an alarm on the shed? Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesso Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 [quote name='Bloodaxe' post='690146' date='Dec 20 2009, 09:14 PM']I'd personally be very cagey about leaving electrical equipment in the van for any length of time. If an amp (f'rinstance) has been in the cold for a while & becomes "well chilled" & then brought into the warm there's a risk (albeit small) of condensation forming within it - & water and electricity are well known for not getting on. I trust there's an alarm on the shed? Pete.[/quote] Hey Pete, No alarm on the shed yet, but soon. It's insured in a locked shed, behind 2 locked gates, in a locked (a propper lock) imobilized van kept out of sight, right beside our guitarists house in a remote area. I'm pretty happy about the safety of the gear, but I'd still like to get one of those sms / gps alarms, plus a bollard to put infront of the van. We insulated the inside of the back of the van to try to avoid any type of condensation building up (it used to) and it seems to have worked. Also, we use good quality covers or flightcases on everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 In 1995 we played Tunbridge Wells and the van was nicked. We lost a drum kit and a few other bits and pieces. Thankfully I got trapped backstage as the next band went on so my bass and amp stayed in the venue. However, it cost us a fortune. The drummer was reluctant to replace his kit so we wound up having to sack him (which cost a friendship!). The moral of the story for me is that I never leave kit in the car / van and if I do I make sure it's only replaceable stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesso Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 [quote name='BurritoBass' post='690166' date='Dec 20 2009, 09:27 PM']In 1995 we played Tunbridge Wells and the van was nicked. We lost a drum kit and a few other bits and pieces. Thankfully I got trapped backstage as the next band went on so my bass and amp stayed in the venue. However, it cost us a fortune. The drummer was reluctant to replace his kit so we wound up having to sack him (which cost a friendship!). The moral of the story for me is that I never leave kit in the car / van and if I do I make sure it's only replaceable stuff.[/quote] Good moral, but I swear to god at 5am after playing a 3 hour set, Djing for 2 hours, and then driving for another two, the last thing you want to do is unload the van. Takes about 15 minutes and there's some pretty heavy stuff in there..... Our only real option is to make the van extremely secure and take every possible precaution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodaxe Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 [quote name='Jesso' post='690158' date='Dec 20 2009, 09:21 PM']We insulated the inside of the back of the van to try to avoid any type of condensation building up (it used to) and it seems to have worked. Also, we use good quality covers or flightcases on everything.[/quote] Sounds like you've got the security angle pretty well covered then! & if it seems to be working then it don't need fixin' The point about cold & damp's attitude to nitro finishes is best rammed home with a photo... Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Yep fair point and I hear you. Certainly the van secruity needs to be A1 at least. I'd still maybe consider taking the instruments in and just chancing it with the cabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 If you can't be arsed to unload the van, how hard would it be to just take your guitar in with you? Load them in last, take them out first? I left a bass in a car boot all day once (because I had no choice), it was scorching hot and the bass was never the same again, the neck twisted. I try to keep them in sensible temperatures now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesso Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='690188' date='Dec 20 2009, 09:41 PM']If you can't be arsed to unload the van, how hard would it be to just take your guitar in with you? Load them in last, take them out first? I left a bass in a car boot all day once (because I had no choice), it was scorching hot and the bass was never the same again, the neck twisted. I try to keep them in sensible temperatures now.[/quote] Yeah perhaps it would be a good idea to at least take valuable guitars in at night (I wouldn't take my backup... It's an SX.... let them have it!). I shudder to think about our gear being stolen. Doesn't bear thinking about really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Wouldn't be leaving an amp or basses in a car/van overnight and even more so when temps are cold. Cabs maybe until the morning if I REALLY can't unload but no more than the next day, and even then only because I could more easily replace them if stolen and they are the most robust to the elements, IMO. FWIW, I wouldn't want to be buying gear ( basses and amps ) kept like this...sorry..!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesso Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 [quote name='JTUK' post='690202' date='Dec 20 2009, 09:54 PM']Wouldn't be leaving an amp or basses in a car/van overnight and even more so when temps are cold. Cabs maybe until the morning if I REALLY can't unload but no more than the next day, and even then only because I could more easily replace them if stolen and they are the most robust to the elements, IMO. FWIW, I wouldn't want to be buying gear ( basses and amps ) kept like this...sorry..!!![/quote] Theres just no way our cabs and amps could all come out of the van every night. The way I see it is that our gear is there to be used.... if something dies it get replaced. It's all high quality stuff, built to last. All my own gear has been solid and reliable so far, depspite being often left overnight in the van. We're gigging well over a hundred times a year now, and so far everything is holding up well. We have spares of everything for the rare occasion if something misbehaves.... which sometimes happens with the valve guitar amps, but that would happen regardless of where they were kept overnight. For instance, my markbass amp is kept in a case, with-in a case, in an insulated van, in a shed.... No different to a house with no heating I suppose. Guitars are a different story, and I can agree with you that they should be taken in if at all possible. I'm going to change my evil ways! Don't worry, I'm not trying to sell any basses on basschat at the moment! Although, I must admit I'm trying to sell a pair of Markbass cabs. They would have paid their dues in the back of the van during the summer, but they are almost perfect in their appearance, and obviously they sound perfect. Nothing wrong with them at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokl Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 If I were you I would consider the suggestion made about just taking your instruments out. If you load them last it wouldn't be too much hassle. I don't know how old your P bass is, but I strongly advise you to heed the advice given about nitro finishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
attackbass Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Touring in the winter with guitars in a massive pain in the arse. I have opened my bass up on a number of occasions to a condensation wet bass. Thankfully my jazz bass hasn't taken any harm from it yet and it's played 100+ shows in the last year! It's a bugger tho, restringing a chilled bass is a nightmare and I have had problem getting the bass to hold it's string and not let them slip until the bass has got back to room temperature and has settled. It's also not good on support tours where in some cases you are coming straight off stage and into the street to pack down and load a trailer. Can't be good for the guitars. I think it's part and parcel of a guitars life though and a nescessary evil! [quote name='Jesso' post='690215' date='Dec 20 2009, 10:14 PM']Theres just no way our cabs and amps could all come out of the van every night. The way I see it is that our gear is there to be used.... if something dies it get replaced. It's all high quality stuff, built to last. All my own gear has been solid and reliable so far, depspite being often left overnight in the van. We're gigging well over a hundred times a year now, and so far everything is holding up well. We have spares of everything for the rare occasion if something misbehaves.... which sometimes happens with the valve guitar amps, but that would happen regardless of where they were kept overnight. For instance, my markbass amp is kept in a case, with-in a case, in an insulated van, in a shed.... No different to a house with no heating I suppose. Guitars are a different story, and I can agree with you that they should be taken in if at all possible. I'm going to change my evil ways! Don't worry, I'm not trying to sell any basses on basschat at the moment! Although, I must admit I'm trying to sell a pair of Markbass cabs. They would have paid their dues in the back of the van during the summer, but they are almost perfect in their appearance, and obviously they sound perfect. Nothing wrong with them at all.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largo Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 (edited) I'm with you on this Jesso. Similar situation, although gigging in Scotland. Gears their to be used and when it breaks it gets fixed or replaced. Again, I agree that if you buy decent gear that's built to last, more often than not it will. We also keep our gear (inc bass) in an insulated trailer and then in an alarmed lockup. After playing 4 hours and travelling another hour or two home it's convenience that counts, not the finish on your bass Edited December 20, 2009 by largo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Cold won't damage a bass, neither will heat. There are bass players in Alaska and Libya, they get by. It's the change that does the damage, especially rapid change. If you can ensure that the change happens gently then you should be OK. A bass left in a decent hardcase or gigbag in a van should change temperature really slowly. It will be an hour or so before the interior of the van cools down enough to start affecting the hardcase, and at least another hour or so before the interior of the hardcase gently cools down the bass. Trouble is, you now have a freezing cold bass which needs to warm up again at the same rate that it cooled down. Get in a freezing van, drive it for two hours with the heating on, and you'll be fine. If the gig is only 10 minutes away, you could have a problem. DISCLAIMER! If you left your open hardcase in a freezing van, then slung your bass into it after the gig and wandered off for a curry, that is NOT covered by my comments above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheeledwriter Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 [quote]If an amp (f'rinstance) has been in the cold for a while & becomes "well chilled" & then brought into the warm there's a risk (albeit small) of condensation forming within it - & water and electricity are well known for not getting on.[/quote] If a [b]Eurostar train[/b] (f'rinstance) has been in the cold for a while & becomes "well chilled" & then brought into the warm there's a risk (albeit small) of condensation forming within it - & water and electricity are well known for not getting on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodaxe Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 [quote name='twowheeledwriter' post='690500' date='Dec 21 2009, 11:31 AM']If a [b]Eurostar train[/b] (f'rinstance) has been in the cold for a while & becomes "well chilled" & then brought into the warm there's a risk (albeit small) of condensation forming within it - & water and electricity are well known for not getting on.[/quote] Only if it's been subjected to the "wrong kind of snow". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMech Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 if there's electricity in the shed, why not buy an electric heater and leave it in there? the power will would probably be substantially less than replacing wrecked gear. Perhaps turn it on an hour before you're gonna get in the van, which should mean the gear will heat up nice and slow, and have the added bonus of not making the fan cold enough to freeze your junk off when you get in. Not that i've had any experience with this, so it's purely speculative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Just to add a +1 to the advice of putting the guitars in last and taking them out. My Jaydee spent a week in a cold basement and needed truss rod attention (slackening). the neck recovered when I got ot home and I had to readjust it. I just never risk the guitar, its too personal. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 [quote name='Happy Jack' post='690257' date='Dec 20 2009, 11:11 PM']Cold won't damage a bass, neither will heat. There are bass players in Alaska and Libya, they get by. It's the change that does the damage, especially rapid change. If you can ensure that the change happens gently then you should be OK. A bass left in a decent hardcase or gigbag in a van should change temperature really slowly. It will be an hour or so before the interior of the van cools down enough to start affecting the hardcase, and at least another hour or so before the interior of the hardcase gently cools down the bass. Trouble is, you now have a freezing cold bass which needs to warm up again at the same rate that it cooled down. Get in a freezing van, drive it for two hours with the heating on, and you'll be fine. If the gig is only 10 minutes away, you could have a problem. DISCLAIMER! If you left your open hardcase in a freezing van, then slung your bass into it after the gig and wandered off for a curry, that is NOT covered by my comments above. [/quote] I think Jack's right. Nitro is highly susceptible to rapid temp changes as others have said. I've read some horror stories. Do you think instruments get a nice warm cosy aeroplane hold when they get shipped from the manufacturer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesso Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 I really should know this, but is a 73 P nitro or polly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodaxe Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 [quote name='Jesso' post='690580' date='Dec 21 2009, 12:54 PM']I really should know this, but is a 73 P nitro or polly?[/quote] Nitro. Rory's Strat (in the earlier picture for any that were wondering) was a '61 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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