Vintage Fender GAS

[gary mac]

Hi all,

I've been hankering after an old Fender for some time now, this has been made worse recently due to the flurry of postings from Pepone2401. Now I really want one, but due to lack of funds I need to consider selling, swopping or trading some of my current collection.

Twenty odd years back the last thing I wanted was a fender and was really keen on exotic woods and active electronics, anyway got that all out of my system and now find myself favouring simple passive arrangements.

The reason for this post is to ask for some pointers really.

An idea of prices for sixties and seventies models, either precision or jazz. Good years, bad years etc.
Pitfalls to look out for.



Not sure yet, but thinking of selling,swapping, trading my Wal. It's an option to consider.

I can't get any pics up at the mo, but I did post sometime back in the gear porn section (page 29).


So any info would be appreciated or offers from fender owners, via pms if you feel it's more appropriate.


I also have a 1980's Yamaha bb1200 and a , bex 4



Sorry, bit of a rambling post, but not having a good day today.


So hope to hear from some you, all the best Gary.

[Stacker]

Well, one thing you need to consider is, like all kit, whether you have been given provenance that the parts/electrics are all original. I personally don't have a problem with non-original parts in vintage kit so long as they are, at least, contemporary. I would certianly want to see the instrument upfront and wouldn't buy anything blind offa evilbay, that's for sure. The other thing to bear in mind is that the vinatge market is vastly inflated by certain vintage music shops here in the UK (let's not even talk about the USA) and it all boils down to what you want to pay for and in what condition. 7K for a battered '65 Jazz? I think not! Even the re-issues I don't think are worth anywhere near what they're commanding.

Anyway, it's your choice, just be careful. For me, if i wanted another vinatge fender i'd ask John at Bravewood to make me one at a fraction of the cost. I've owned a '64 jazz and had one of John's and, honestly, there wasn't much bewteen them bar the years!

PS: I'd avoid the '70s Jazzes: 3-bolt neck and waay too heavy! Just my opinion.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Stacker

[wateroftyne]

It's difficult to give specific pointers as there's so many variables...!

As has been mentioned, as you get into mid-late '70s, the weight can become a factor. Personally, I don't find 3-bolt to be an issue, but some avoid it like the plague.

Quality-wise and visually, there's not too much between late-60s and early 70's basses, but that magic decade change means 60s instruments go for far more money.

Up until recently, the early 70s were a great place to get a bargain, but prices have risen considerably over the last year or two.

Always try and play a bass before you buy. That said, I'm a reckless fool and all of my recent basses have been bought blind, and every one has been a beauty. That's pure luck.

If you can't play before you buy, get as many photos of every part as you can, and send them to people who can give 'em the once over. I'd be happy to help, and I'm sure there are many other BC'ers who would chip in.

If any part of the bass is non-original, you *must* bear that in mind when you make an offer.

To give you an idea, I've recently sold a '72 P, with some non-original parts, for £1500, and bought an all-original '71 J for £2K.

[gary mac]

Thanks chaps, most helpful, it's really appreciated.

I think it could be a long search, but I am a patient type,

[Davo-London]

It's about tone and mojo and so what tone are you after?

I've been looking for several years and briefly owned a '67 Jazz with non-Fender neck. Bit mad although it was cheap. Sold it to a guy who had a '69 neck and so that seemed wise.

As for Jazzes the question is alder/rosewood or ash/maple. Now maybe there isn't a huge difference but you will get fans of both. Clearly Marcus Miller gets great tone from a 70's Jazz. I own 2 70's Ps, which I bought from new and quality wise they are dogs. Tone wise the 76 P is starting to sound OK, but maybe because i've had it so long it doesn't really excite me. I feel differently about 60's Fenders. The Jazzes from '62 to '64 are the real players favs. This is because the non-concentric tone knobs are easier and they are pre-CBS Fenders. In Jan 65 CBS bought Fender. So early 65s are likely to be just as good but thereafter the wood quality and the general build start to slowly decline. I think for value the 65-66 Jazzes are great and worth searching out, as although they are not pre-CBS they are still good quality and they are not too messed with. In 66 the neck binding came in with dot inlays - these are fun and rare - then around 66/67 the block inlays came in. I hate block inlays. I don't like the look or the feel and I wouldn't want a block inlay Jazz. So for me the Mojo ends in 66. As for 70's Fenders, well mine had the bridges in the wrong place, lovely gaps between the neck and body etc. And I have to confess I am an alder/rosewood guy.

Precisions were good throughout the 60's with less variation in a way. And I have played lots of good Ps from this period. I prefer the 60's neck profile as it is often slimmer.

50's P's I know nothing about , as for some reason, they don't interest me at all.

Finally, I would go for a refinished bass if you are a player. Who cares the finish isn't original. It only matters when you sell it again. And that won't happen if you get the right one that feels just so.

Anyway, these are my very humble opinions on the subject of vintage Fenders.

Peace
Davo

[King Tut]

Just a quick word about late 70's Fenders. I have a 77 sunburst/maple ash Jazz - it's the heaviest bass I own but my god does it sound awesome - indeedy! Funnily I don't notice the weight when I gig it as it balances well!

[lozbass]

[quote name='King Tut' post='630978' date='Oct 20 2009, 12:05 AM']Just a quick word about late 70's Fenders. I have a 77 sunburst/maple ash Jazz - it's the heaviest bass I own but my god does it sound awesome - indeedy! Funnily I don't notice the weight when I gig it as it balances well![/quote]
+1 - there's not a lot of affection around here for mid to late '70s Fenders, but I'm not sure that a lot of the negative opinions have much foundation in experience (however, I could be very wrong). I've owned a few such basses and all have been excellent - if basic - instruments following a good set-up. I currently only have a mid '70s Jazz - it's monstrously heavy, but has a stunning classic Jazz tone (from burp and honk through to a gut-thumping, smile-inducing slap). I suspect strongly that the mass of the body has something to do with the inherent tone and sustain of the bass. Playability is fabulous too - super-fast and ultra-low action and not a buzz anywhere.

[gary mac]

It all seems a bit of a mine field.

Watching a few on E bay, but mostly from the states. Some seem unrealistically expensive and then there is the shipping and presumably import duties


Thanks for all the tips and pointers, I'm sure I will be asking more questions if I ever track one down that is affordable to me.


Maybe it is time to move on my Wal and Yamaha's to help fund it.



Cheers, Gary

[henry norton]

[quote name='lozbass' post='632414' date='Oct 21 2009, 03:45 PM']+1 - there's not a lot of affection around here for mid to late '70s Fenders, but I'm not sure that a lot of the negative opinions have much foundation in experience (however, I could be very wrong). I've owned a few such basses and all have been excellent - if basic - instruments following a good set-up. I currently only have a mid '70s Jazz - it's monstrously heavy, but has a stunning classic Jazz tone (from burp and honk through to a gut-thumping, smile-inducing slap). I suspect strongly that the mass of the body has something to do with the inherent tone and sustain of the bass. Playability is fabulous too - super-fast and ultra-low action and not a buzz anywhere.[/quote]
IMHO allot of the animosity regarding 70s Fenders is due to Tokai, Squier and Greco makng very close replicas of the earlier (like pre CBS) instruments to a very high standard during the late 70s/early 80s, whilst there were some slightly questionable quality and design issues surrounding the US originals (bigger headstocks, 3 bolt necks). It doesn't make the US versions bad and there's still that kudos surrounding the 'made in USA' transfer that gives them that extra.....'magic(?)'

I should imagine quite a few complaints have come from people who've never actually played one.

[OldGit]

[quote name='gary mac' post='630015' date='Oct 19 2009, 06:56 AM']Thanks chaps, most helpful, it's really appreciated.

I think it could be a long search, but I am a patient type,[/quote]


Best get a large jar and put all your £2 coins in it as you wait .... and possibly all your £1 ones too .. and fivers ...

There's two late 70's Precisions here:
[url="http://www.cardiffguitars.co.uk/ForSale/sh/sh.aspx"]http://www.cardiffguitars.co.uk/ForSale/sh/sh.aspx[/url]
Scroll down the page.

I used to own the red one.
Very nice, very heavy.
The natural's nicer.

Edited October 22, 2009 by OldGit

[tischbein]

[quote name='King Tut' post='630978' date='Oct 20 2009, 01:05 AM']Just a quick word about late 70's Fenders. I have a 77 sunburst/maple ash Jazz - it's the heaviest bass I own but my god does it sound awesome - indeedy! Funnily I don't notice the weight when I gig it as it balances well![/quote]


My 78 Jazz is also the heaviest bass I own.. but ,man, that tone is unbeatable. So, Mr. King Tut, I wholeheardetly agree...

P.S. I have a 78 Jazz for sale/trade.

Edited October 22, 2009 by tischbein

[gary mac]

Thanks Old Git, had a look at the link and saved it.


Tisch bein: Tell me about your jazz, thanks

[Doctor J]

I used to have vintage Fender GAS until I got a vintage Fender.

[Buzz]

Just buy a new '09 MIA and be done with it, then you can grow with the instrument and it'll still be an investment in 30 years.

[OldGit]

[quote name='Doctor J' post='634346' date='Oct 23 2009, 12:24 PM']I used to have vintage Fender GAS until I got a vintage Fender.[/quote]


Rather ambiguous ...
Did you:
A ) find it was the answer to all your dreams, attracted women (and/or men of course) like wasps to a cream tea and cured your GAS for ever
B ) something else?

Edited October 23, 2009 by OldGit

[FlatEric]

[quote name='Doctor J' post='634346' date='Oct 23 2009, 12:24 PM']I used to have vintage Fender GAS until I got a vintage Fender.[/quote]

Me too!!
I've got a '72 Jazz - a few years back I was desperate for one.
Drove 400 mile round trip, got back, plugged it in and my
first thoughts were "it's got magic in it!"
The only thing is, there are some places I daren't gig with it,
if you get what I mean!

Flat Eric.

[attachment=35000:PJP.jpg]

[Doctor J]

[quote name='OldGit' post='634359' date='Oct 23 2009, 12:38 PM']Rather ambiguous ...
Did you:
A ) find it was the answer to all your dreams, attracted women (and/or men of course) like wasps to a cream tea and cured your GAS for ever
B ) something else?[/quote]
Apologies, allow me to elaborate

I picked up a 77 Jazz, all original, in good condition, a few years ago. Not a bad bass, per se, but nothing remarkable either. It set up reasonably well and it played, well, ok, but it was really nothing remarkable in hand other than exceptionally heavy. The tone was ok to be fair but, again, nothing exceptional by any stretch. The standard of hardware, especially the bridge, was absurdly poor, the routing of the pickup cavities and neck pocket just miserable. I appreciate one cannot judge every bass of that era on the strength of one but the constants, ie routing templates used, hardware, heavy woods, are a feature across the board of that era and being old doesn't make them good. All in my humble opinion, of course

It was a £350 bass, if even that. The thought of the OP selling some high end gear to buy one just made my day cloudly.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Doctor J' post='634386' date='Oct 23 2009, 12:53 PM']Apologies, allow me to elaborate

I picked up a 77 Jazz, all original, in good condition, a few years ago. Not a bad bass, per se, but nothing remarkable either. It set up reasonably well and it played, well, ok, but it was really nothing remarkable in hand other than exceptionally heavy. The tone was ok to be fair but, again, nothing exceptional by any stretch. The standard of hardware, especially the bridge, was absurdly poor, the routing of the pickup cavities and neck pocket just miserable. I appreciate one cannot judge every bass of that era on the strength of one but the constants, ie routing templates used, hardware, heavy woods, are a feature across the board of that era and being old doesn't make them good. All in my humble opinion, of course

It was a £350 bass, if even that. The thought of the OP selling some high end gear to buy one just made my day cloudly.[/quote]
To be fair, the standard of Jazzes in '77 is well documented to be pretty hit-and-miss.

[Doctor J]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='634396' date='Oct 23 2009, 01:01 PM']To be fair, the standard of Jazzes in '77 is well documented to be pretty hit-and-miss.[/quote]
True, but there was nothing amiss in general terms, the bridge was in the right place, never had any trouble with the 3 bolt neck, there was nothing glaringly wrong with it, no obvious Friday afternoon symptoms. There was nothing there to suggest there was something specificially off with it, that the next one down the line would be any better.

It was just a ho-hum instrument, not very bad, but not very good or legend justifying either.

Edit -> I'll add that I've played a good few other 70's Fenders over the last 20 years but I've concentrated on the one I owned for a few years. A mate's 74 P had the same shoddy routing, I've never played one that comes anywhere to justifying the prices they're now going for.

Selling a Wal for one? I think I'm gonna cry.

Edited October 23, 2009 by Doctor J

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Doctor J' post='634400' date='Oct 23 2009, 01:07 PM']True, but there was nothing amiss in general terms, the bridge was in the right place, never had any trouble with the 3 bolt neck, there was nothing glaringly wrong with it, no obvious Friday afternoon symptoms. There was nothing there to suggest there was something specificially off with it, that the next one down the line would be any better.

It was just a ho-hum instrument, not very bad, but not very good either.[/quote]
...and typical of late-70s Fenders.

Just sayin'.

[BB2000]

Your BB1200 will be built to a higher standard than any Fender I've ever seen. Ditto your Wal. You'll miss 'em when they're gone..

[Buzz]

Ditto, even considering selling a Wal for an old Fender is a bit silly imo.

[doghouse]

i have a mid 70s fender p and love it i also have a 09 if i coud only keep one i would find it hard to pick which one
ive had the 70s one a long time so didn't pay alot for it as at the time most mags & people said they were crap but i found it brilliant just as good as any new fender at the time but i must say i do lke classic looking bass's and im not keen on the modern looking bass with exotic woods, if vintage fenders are worth the price they are fetching now .. is a hard one but i would sooner have one than any of the boutique/custom bass's out on the market

[gary mac]

Due to being a bit bored and very glum today I decided to have a bass day.

I've spent the afternoon with my bb1200 and the Wal.


Can't believe I was contemplating letting either of them go in order to fund the fender gas.


The yamaha hadn't been out of it's case in a while and I suppose I had forgotten what a quality piece of kit that it is.


It was such a joy opening the case and getting it out for a play, didn't even need a tune up.
The action is perfect (for me)and everything functions perfectly.


Put my ipod on shuffle and played along to everything from soul, funk, reggae and rock. Sounded like a precision when I wanted it to and funky when required.


Will fit some strap locks this evening and take it out to kick up a din tomorrow night for rehearsals.





And the Wal........


....well I'm all loved up again.









Still got the fender gas though.



But it will have to wait.





Thanks for all the earlier replies and info.




Cheers, Gary.

[Happy Jack]

Nice one Gary - the perfect cure for GAS!