AttitudeCastle Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Hey Guys Question, i went to a gig at the local hall (i'm that cool) and i asked the bassist what was in his rack, he had Ampeg SVT 4 pro a tuner and a... a power conditioner? he said it was essential, he said he's never not use one??? why? he said becasue you need one? said it was important? I was and am confused any one else using one? if so, tell me why i should use one i don't even quite know what they do, they are to prevent overloads or something right? =S Adam, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 (edited) As far as I'm aware,all a power conditioner does is isolate each output and help to prevent your gear from sudden spikes of electricity. I don't think it's an essential piece of gear-a good quality four way should be able to do a similar job. But to be honest, I'm not 100% sure what they do. I've never needed one anyway. Edited October 16, 2009 by Doddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Its all about the lights! In the UK, they aren't really necessary as the mains power is pretty stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerdragon Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I had to look it up, is not a surge protecter? [url="http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-power-conditioner.htm"]http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-power-conditioner.htm[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttitudeCastle Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 [quote name='beerdragon' post='628333' date='Oct 16 2009, 09:47 PM']I had to look it up, is not a surge protecter? [url="http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-power-conditioner.htm"]http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-power-conditioner.htm[/url][/quote] That what i thought Thanks for the info guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Tucked away at the bottom of that wisegeek page [quote]Although the term "power conditioner" is often used interchangeably with "line conditioner," these terms can also refer to devices that not only condition power but also regulate voltage. This type of line conditioner, often used in industry, will boost voltage when it drops or act as a surge protector when it peaks, maintaining a steady flow of electricity within a set range of voltage parameters.[/quote] I can see why someone might want to use one of these. Voltage variations can make a difference to your sound, particularly valve amps. Been thinking about this myself since an amp tech told me he'd measured my amp's output twice - 29w when his home's night storage heating was on, 39w when it was off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='628717' date='Oct 17 2009, 02:50 PM']Tucked away at the bottom of that wisegeek page I can see why someone might want to use one of these. Voltage variations can make a difference to your sound, particularly valve amps. Been thinking about this myself since an amp tech told me he'd measured my amp's output twice - 29w when his home's night storage heating was on, 39w when it was off.[/quote] It's not gonna deal with that though is it, I mean it can't magically produce extra voltage from nowhere. Still ironing out the peaks and troughs in the supply voltage sounds like a good idea, although I wonder if it has the same real world effect on the sound as gold terminals have on the hifi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvetkevorkian Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 The consensus seems to be that they're not really worth using in the UK as the grid here is relatively stable. Seems to be more of a necessity elsewhere, like the US for example where the voltage coming in can vary more. As ever, YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 (edited) Industry line conditioners are not usually the sort of thing you can get into the back of a van. In the UK the supply voltage is must be above 220v to be in line with Europe, but usually it will be still 240v. Pro level amps will have electronics built into their power supplies to stop the spikes the power. The problem is that mains is dirty and full of spikes, not a nice clean sine wave. These spikes constantly hammer the electronics in your amp. Eventually your amp's power supply will die. Toss up betwwen replacing your power conditioner every few thousand hours or replace your amps supply every few thousand hours. Depends on how much you gig I suppose. You can't stop the interferance from strip lights etc, that's airborourne RF and is picked up by your -erm- pickups. I think some power conditioers will stage the outputs on slowly after a power cut so would protect your gear if the power is suddenly switched back on, before you get to turn your volumes back down. Edited October 17, 2009 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 [quote name='SteveO' post='628844' date='Oct 17 2009, 04:44 PM']It's not gonna deal with that though is it, I mean it can't magically produce extra voltage from nowhere.[/quote] Apparently, that's exactly what voltage stabilisers do (among other things) - surprised me. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_stabilizer"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_stabilizer[/url] Changing the input voltage to an amp can have quite an effect on the sound. Eddie Van Halen used a Variac to run his Marshalls at a different input voltage from spec, in order to produce his "brown sound". Def going to look into this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='628951' date='Oct 17 2009, 08:11 PM']Apparently, that's exactly what voltage stabilisers do (among other things) - surprised me. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_stabilizer"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_stabilizer[/url] Changing the input voltage to an amp can have quite an effect on the sound. Eddie Van Halen used a Variac to run his Marshalls at a different input voltage from spec, in order to produce his "brown sound". Def going to look into this.[/quote] well well there you go, I always thought they were a load of capacitors and other such electrical trickery that stored the charge then pushed it out when the supply dropped, a bit like you have in DC transformers to flatten the waveform. I suppose a little thought tells you it must be possible as you can get an inverter for the car that pushes out 240V from a 12V battery. Right, I'm shutting up now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Any amp worth buying will be able to handle the power in the UK without a so-called conditioner. In fact if you use a high power amp a 'conditioner' is likely to cause a bottle-neck in the supply due to insufficient current capacity, thus causing worse performance and no better protection than if you plugged into a cheap surge-protected 4-way extension lead. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='628981' date='Oct 17 2009, 07:38 PM']Any amp worth buying will be able to handle the power in the UK without a so-called conditioner. In fact if you use a high power amp a 'conditioner' is likely to cause a bottle-neck in the supply due to insufficient current capacity, thus causing worse performance and no better protection than if you plugged into a cheap surge-protected 4-way extension lead. Alex[/quote] I have to agree with Alex here. The UK power supply is very clean and stable and any decent amp will be fine. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriswilliams666 Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Hey Guys Dont know if i am coming in too late here. However i use a Furman PL-Plus Power Conditioner, within my rack of stuff. The main reason for using it is because my rack consists of a wireless, effects unit, tuner and amp which are all mains powered and in the rack case. It just makes it a lot easier if the whole rack is plugged into one power source i.e. the Furman and one master mains switch. The other great features with the Furman gear in particular is the Rack light you can use at the front, which will illuminate all of your equipment for dark and dingy venues (I play alot) as well as extra IEC outlets on the front and back. I can power any additional pedals from this unit too. I have attached a picture of my rig to show you the conditioner in place. (Its the very top rack unit) Also if you look at any pics of touring rigs (I have attached a pic of Slash and Duff McKagans rigs) they will always without a doubt have a power conditioner, and 9 times out of 10 it will be a Furman. [url="http://www.furmansound.com/"]Click for Furman's Website[/url] [quote name='machinehead' post='629034' date='Oct 17 2009, 08:58 PM']I have to agree with Alex here. The UK power supply is very clean and stable and any decent amp will be fine. Frank.[/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 We've had issues playing outside with very long extension leads 200m+. We always use a generator now. I can see that there are LEDs on the Furman which would tell you that the line voltage was too low in those situations. They would help with any disagreements with the organisers of any event about not enough power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Looking at the specs, I think that they probably are usefull if you are using low voltage powered effects units. They usually come with fairly cheap 9v power supplies which don't always have good filtering on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 When I was using a rack setup (SVT-3/Tuner/Wireless) I had a cheap Samson power conditioner fitted, but it was more for the convenience of having everything powered from one source, with neat and tidy cables, and only one mains lead to connect from the back of my rack. They are by no means an 'essential' piece of kit. The rack lights were pretty though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 [quote name='machinehead' post='629034' date='Oct 17 2009, 08:58 PM']I have to agree with Alex here. The UK power supply is very clean and stable and any decent amp will be fine. Frank.[/quote] Not always the case........ We play in a lot of old country mansions and the power circuits in those places are mainly shot to pieces..... connect up lighting and audio equipment and you can hear the ground loops/earthing hums, spikes from white goods elsewhere in the buildings..... we have a heavy duty power conditioner with several outlets (16 amp in total which is more than enough) that gives us a steady, clean power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 [quote name='crez5150' post='631172' date='Oct 20 2009, 10:49 AM']We play in a lot of old country mansions and the power circuits in those places are mainly shot to pieces..... connect up lighting and audio equipment and you can hear the ground loops/earthing hums, spikes from white goods elsewhere in the buildings..... we have a heavy duty power conditioner with several outlets (16 amp in total which is more than enough) that gives us a steady, clean power.[/quote] That sounds like a better use of a power conditioner. Does it actually regulate the power or is it just a higher current version of the usual filtering things? Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 It's a USA thing where the power is rubbish and even there Power Conditioners are a triumph of marketing over common sense. You don't need one. The input circuits of any decent amp will have all the surge and spike protection you will ever need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 For all of you saying its easier to have one power point and one power lead out to mains, I just Tie wrapped a 4-way to the back of a rack case when i needed too, it was cheaper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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