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Barefaced guitar cabs?


alexclaber
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A good idea?

Two obvious things that come to mind are a lightweight Marshall 4x12" replacement that looks as imposing but has better dispersion and weighs very little and a cab for those that use modellers (and thus is more like a nice PA cab disguised as a guitar cab!)

Alex

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[quote name='alexclaber' post='613985' date='Oct 1 2009, 04:59 PM']A good idea?[/quote]
Yes.

[quote name='alexclaber' post='613985' date='Oct 1 2009, 04:59 PM']a lightweight Marshall 4x12" replacement that looks as imposing but has better dispersion and weighs very little[/quote]
This is the holy grail.

That said, like I said in my initial reaction to the Vintage, it sounded incredible for tuned-down, fuzzed-up riffage on guitar. Perfectly voiced for the stoner-doom crowd. If my guitarist wasn't a poor student (again), he'd have a Vintage like a shot. If there was a 4x12... well, he might starve himself for 6 months to get one. :)

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IME a typical guitarists tone is more dependant on loads of effects rather than the speakers.

I reckon continue with the bass cabs for the time being, get the much advertised but never seen speakers available first :)

+1 on the combo comment above.

Edited by Protium
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[quote name='BottomEndian' post='613995' date='Oct 1 2009, 05:10 PM']If there was a 4x12...[/quote]

I'm kind of leaning towards a cab that looks like a 4x12" but is actually a vertical 2x12". That's plenty of sensitivity for guitar and I could do a ported variant for those that want the extra bottom of a sealed 4x12".

[quote name='chris_b' post='614001' date='Oct 1 2009, 05:15 PM']Not sure this is a winner! 99% of the guitarists I play with use Fender combos.[/quote]

That's what bothers me - lots of guitarists use combos, which makes sense - but most of those combos are the wrong shape and unnecessarily heavy. Hence my inclination towards the Marshall/Mesa heavy posse. I'd like to do a lightweight valve combo for guitar but haven't the time at the moment - my guitarist uses a Soundcity which is a most excellent combo with a very clean valve preamp. Weighs as much as a small pony though...

Alex

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[quote name='Protium' post='614012' date='Oct 1 2009, 05:23 PM']I reckon continue with the bass cabs for the time being, get the much advertised but never seen speakers available first :)[/quote]

The elusive Midgets and Big Baby? Will be done by the Bass Bash!

Alex

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I'm not convinced that you'd be able to sell many - do bear in mind that part of the reason why Barefaced bass cabs have sold so well is that you are an established member of this forum, you had a forum thread running while you built the prototypes, and there's a lot of word-of-mouth recommendation flowing around here. To my knowledge, you don't have that kind of head start in the guitar cab world.

Bear in mind also that your first prototype was for personal use. If you're building a guitar cab, you'd need to be fairly sure that you'd be able to get a buyer for your prototype.

S.P.

Edited by Stylon Pilson
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Guitarsist don't liek technical stuff. Put a bunch of Celestion Vintage 30s in a stiff box and throw it down some hills. Drag it behind a van some, and waear the speakers in. They'll love it.

The only specification I've ever seen a guitarist impressed by is watts, and totally without context, on not necessarily high watts, if they are aiming for some sort of break up.

Also, you don't have a market is Stevie-Ray Vaugh didn't use it at some point in his career.

Adit: bear in mind good dispersion is not necessarily counted as a good thing, I know I don't want to hear nothing but guitar and will wander out of the way of the stack, and sometimes the guitard will want to stop feeding back and be able to move his guitar out of the way also.

Edited by Mr. Foxen
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[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='614354' date='Oct 1 2009, 11:08 PM']Guitarsist don't liek technical stuff. Put a bunch of Celestion Vintage 30s in a stiff box and throw it down some hills. Drag it behind a van some, and waear the speakers in. They'll love it.

The only specification I've ever seen a guitarist impressed by is watts, and totally without context, on not necessarily high watts, if they are aiming for some sort of break up.

Also, you don't have a market is Stevie-Ray Vaugh didn't use it at some point in his career.

Adit: bear in mind good dispersion is not necessarily counted as a good thing, I know I don't want to hear nothing but guitar and will wander out of the way of the stack, and sometimes the guitard will want to stop feeding back and be able to move his guitar out of the way also.[/quote]

+1

I agree

The guitar market it TOTALLY different.

Most guitarists I know use Fender Combos or big Marshall/Orange/Matamp 4x12.

Maybe it would actually work, but its hard to change a guitarists mind! Stubborn creatures.

Also, as my friends who play guitar get older, they prefer much lower wattage...finding the sweet spot is what its all about.

Edited by Musicman20
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Huh. Looks like I'm in the minority here. I don't know a single guitarist with a Fender combo. The guitarists I know are as obsessed as any bassist with finding the right tone. The guy I do most of my playing with has spent years going through various combinations of heads (or pre/power amps) and cabs. After months of research on frequency response, he ended up putting Eminence Tonkers in an old Sound City 4x12 cab, which works nicely with an old Carlsbro bass head. He just hates how heavy it is.

Another guitarist we gig with quite a lot spent 4 or 5 months waiting for an Avatar 2x12 bass cab to arrive from the US (via Holland). He loves it, because it's brutally "full"-sounding and relatively light.

I seem to have a rare view of guitarists: IME, they're highly creative, tone-obsessed, "thinking" musicians. I've never met a "guitard".

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Don't know anyone who uses a 4x12 ... and it wouldn't go down well on a working gig anyway, IME.

Little amps with 2 single 12's are as big as you'll find round here, as in Cornford or specialist small amp makers. Anyone who gigs a 4x12 will work in his own band doing riffola gigs.
Even a large Boogie combo is overkill as they are too loud. Nobody bothers lugging a 4x12 with a power-soak...they down-scale and save themselves the carry and bleed into the PA.

Just my 2p..

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I can't remember the last gig we did where a band's guitarist used anything but a 4x12 cab & amp head stack! I do play in a metal band however, so perhaps combos wouldn't be loud enough! If you make these cabs Alex, i'll push them to our two guitarists, as one uses a peavey 4x12 and the other a marshall 4x12, and they're both hideously heavy (weight)!

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Niche idea suggestion for a guitar cab, Alex...

Build a combo-sized cab that incorporates an out of sight class D power amp. Then have a cut-out section of the cab for slotting in a L6 POD.

You wouldn't be the first to do it, but you'd be the only European manufacturer.

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[quote name='chris_b' post='614001' date='Oct 1 2009, 05:15 PM']Not sure this is a winner! 99% of the guitarists I play with use Fender combos.[/quote]
i don't think i've seen anyone uses a combo with the type of people i gig with for a few years now! the doom / sludge / stoner side of things seems to attract way more gear elitists who like lots of volume!

but as mr foxen said part of what makes the traditional guitar sound is the bad frequency response from the cabs / speakers, its also why quite a few attempts at making super clean guitar heads failed think the ampeg line of guitar heads and trace elliot.

speakers in sturdy boxes are the way forward for them!

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If I made guitar cabs (as opposed to guitar modelling cabs) they would use traditional high colouration speakers because so much of guitar tone is in what they do (or fail to do!), but I'd combine them with advanced lightweight enclosures so you'd get the same tone but without the weight penalty (and probably better dispersion). I've an opportunity to pick up a load of guitar drivers cheap but I think I'll have to let that pass as I've really only touched the surface of guitar speakers and don't want to end up with lots of the wrong model!

Alex

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Hmmm, you are really going to struggle, firstly the majority of guitarists are super attached to the vintage end of things, and although they moan (the guitarist thinks its an evil thing that my entire rack weighs next to nothing, and my cab is only slightly heavier than his combo), they are soooo attached to those labels.

I did get him (after a particularly nasty case of too loud/too quiet harrassment at a gig) to try a tiny little tube combo run so hard it was melting, all through the PA, with monitors set up for him (and us) to hear what the hell he was playing. Even though it worked a treat, he still didnt like it.

Moral, you cannot convince them. They are not going to change. You will waste money and time trying. Stick to us lot, we are so happy to have someone trying to improve the situation that we will buy in to it (plus you have are held in some esteem on here and all the other bass forums I've seen you on, which is only helping you).

I really want to try a midget, I think it will be my goto cab for band rehearsals and ickle gigs. See you on Saturday!!

I think the PA idea is pretty good, but you are looking at producing some really pricey kit there, so even though it is a high bang for the buck, less people will have that money to hand. Hope you've been supplying advice to voxchat.co.uk (if there is such a thing!) :)

Slightly different note, why is it vocalists dont think they need to provide a good quality vocal PA???

That one really baffles me! I dont ask the vocalist to provide my amp after all!

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[quote name='51m0n' post='617251' date='Oct 5 2009, 11:52 AM']I think the PA idea is pretty good, but you are looking at producing some really pricey kit there, so even though it is a high bang for the buck, less people will have that money to hand. Hope you've been supplying advice to voxchat.co.uk (if there is such a thing!) :)

Slightly different note, why is it vocalists dont think they need to provide a good quality vocal PA???

That one really baffles me! I dont ask the vocalist to provide my amp after all![/quote]


Interesting question that - and very common. I provide the PA for the vocalists in both bands I play in, and one of them never helps set up or take down either.

Touch of thread hijack!

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[quote name='alexclaber' post='617233' date='Oct 5 2009, 11:35 AM']If I made guitar cabs (as opposed to guitar modelling cabs) they would use traditional high colouration speakers because so much of guitar tone is in what they do (or fail to do!), but I'd combine them with advanced lightweight enclosures so you'd get the same tone but without the weight penalty (and probably better dispersion). I've an opportunity to pick up a load of guitar drivers cheap but I think I'll have to let that pass as I've really only touched the surface of guitar speakers and don't want to end up with lots of the wrong model!

Alex[/quote]
what have you had the oportunity to pick up? i don't think you should completely bin the idea if you marketed it right it could work, i.e super loud, big bass response and lots of speaker break up(for doom guys)

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[quote name='umph' post='617332' date='Oct 5 2009, 12:47 PM']what have you had the oportunity to pick up? i don't think you should completely bin the idea if you marketed it right it could work, i.e super loud, big bass response and lots of speaker break up(for doom guys)[/quote]

Lots of Eminence guitar drivers - about twenty different models. Hence no idea where to start!

Alex

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[quote name='alexclaber' post='617352' date='Oct 5 2009, 01:01 PM']Lots of Eminence guitar drivers - about twenty different models. Hence no idea where to start![/quote]
I remember my guitarist (before settling on the Tonker, which is an absolute brute, and now available in a Lite neo version) was very tempted by the Swamp Thang. They're both supposed to be great for the stonery/doomy/brutally-heavy end of things, which seems to be the way you'd have to go with these cabs if the above responses are anything to go by.

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[quote name='alexclaber' post='617352' date='Oct 5 2009, 01:01 PM']Lots of Eminence guitar drivers - about twenty different models. Hence no idea where to start!

Alex[/quote]
nice they have clips of all the current models on their site and specifications have a gander and that at them!

how much cheaper can you get them for than normal and any chance you could sort out a pair of swamp thangs? ;o

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