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How loud is "too loud"?


Happy Jack
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Doesn't matter how much we discuss the subject, even agree on it, we can't seem to do anything about it.

We're too loud.

We rehearse too loud. We gig too loud.

We agree to turn down, then one of the guitarists turns up for a solo and doesn't go back down again afterwards ...

Everyone agrees it's the drummer's fault. "You're way too loud, Paul!" He says "Bollocks! I'm hardly tickling 'em."

The lead guitarist says it's my fault.

The keyboard player says that of course he needs his personal monitor to be that loud.

Bear in mind that we're a bunch of middle-aged weekend warriors playing to pubs full of middle-aged punters. If we carry on like this, we'll end up having to hand out free ear-plugs.

So I've bought an SPL Meter from Maplins (the N33GJ for £15-odd).

I'm going to take it to every music-related event I go to for the next few weeks and note average and maximum noise levels - pub gigs by others, jam sessions, etc. Then I'm going to set it up at our next rehearsal and see just how obnoxious we are. :)

Cheap technology is a wonderful thing.

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[quote name='cheddatom' post='592788' date='Sep 8 2009, 12:14 PM']It might seem louder at reheasal if the room is small and sound-proof. You ARE wearing ear-plugs to practice, right?[/quote]

Our rehearsal place is larger than most, perhaps 20m x 10m, but we shouldn't need plugs (though I do often wear them) because we don't need to rehearse at performance volume.

When we were working up new material in the Spring, we did it in my garage at home. The drummer used electronic pads, the guitarists used tiny practice amps, volume levels were set by the unamplified voice. It worked brilliantly.

Maybe that's the solution at rehearsals - switch off the PA!

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As a general rule for pub gigs I always say If punters can't get across to the bar staff what they want to drink you are too loud. If they can't serve the punters they won't have you back.

For parties and weddings you need to be even quieter, if the guests can't hold a conversation at a resonable distance away you're too loud and won't get any re-bookings.

probably a bit too sensible for your average guitarist though so might not be a lot of help ?

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I'll be very interested to see the results of this!

Often excessive loudness is due to everyone standing in non-ideal place relative to their amps. Point the guitarist's amp right at his ears and he'll soon turn down. Give the drummer lighter sticks and keep the amps away from him, especially the bass amp. If you record your band with a single mic, is the kick drum loud enough when unmiked? Many drummers are too loud with their hands and their right foot can't keep up. EQ the instruments so they leave each other space - frequency slotting is essential.

If your bandmates have been gigging for years without earplugs then their hearing is doubtless less than 100% which means more struggling to discern sounds and more turning up of themselves. Which equals more hearing damage and so on...

Alex

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[quote name='Happy Jack' post='592798' date='Sep 8 2009, 12:25 PM']Our rehearsal place is larger than most, perhaps 20m x 10m, but we shouldn't need plugs (though I do often wear them) because we don't need to rehearse at performance volume.[/quote]

If you rehearse with a drummer using sticks then you need earplugs.

Alex

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I've been on at our drummer for ages to buy a quiter kit. He uses an old Premier kit which rarely needs micing up in pubs, i think if he got something that was designed after the invention of drum mics then our problems would be solved.

He always complains that he can't hear the bass, play quieter then!

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[quote name='Happy Jack' post='592782' date='Sep 8 2009, 12:06 PM']We agree to turn down, then one of the guitarists turns up for a solo and doesn't go back down again afterwards ...[/quote]
This is the problem I've got. We soundcheck, levels are set (even if they feel weird to us), then lo and behold, we're three songs in and I can see him turning around to turn up. He's then louder and then it all starts getting mushy as the vocals get lost in a wall of distorted guitar. Sometimes I have to shout at him to turn down inbetween songs, which looks crap. :)

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[quote name='stingrayfan' post='592842' date='Sep 8 2009, 12:58 PM']They're set so they're good out front.[/quote]

But that's only working when you being careful and controlled during the soundcheck, it's all changing once the gig starts and the volume escalates. Set the volumes so it feels right and work the FOH around it. And if your onstage level is so loud that you totally screw up the FOH sound then you need to change the SPL you rehearse at.

What's your guitarist playing through? Where does he stand vs it?

Alex

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A useful reference might be that with your WTX260 into the Big One, at full power peak SPL will be over 120dB @ 1m. If you bridge a big power amp into this cab you'll probably get to over 130dB peak indoors! By the way, your new SPL meter is likely to be A weighted which will make you look more innocent and the guitarist and snare drum operator particularly culpable...

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-weighting"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-weighting[/url]

Alex

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My rule of thumb.

- Rehearse quietly, maybe even acoustically. Where you rehearse and the volume you rehearse at has no bearings on gig venues. Surely reheasrsals are for practising song structures and individual parts.

- Gigs if there's no one stood in front of the band you're probably too loud and it's uncomfortable for the punters

- Functions (learnt from a wiser person than me on here) Play to the dance floor.

BTW everyone tells me it's me who's too loud........bollocks to 'em!

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Guest johnzgerman

[quote name='alexclaber' post='592856' date='Sep 8 2009, 01:12 PM']But that's only working when you being careful and controlled during the soundcheck, it's all changing once the gig starts and the volume escalates. Set the volumes so it feels right and work the FOH around it. And if your onstage level is so loud that you totally screw up the FOH sound then you need to change the SPL you rehearse at.

What's your guitarist playing through? Where does he stand vs it?

Alex[/quote]

rehersal and gigs are obviously two different things mainly because you will have a PA and monitors at a gig therefore will not need to have the backline at anywhere near the levels you might use in the practice room. also hopefully there will be an audience so the FOH sound is paramount as it is them you are playing to not yourselves. if you are going to turn your amp up after soundcheck there is little point in doing the soundcheck in the first place.

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[quote name='alexclaber' post='592879' date='Sep 8 2009, 01:34 PM']By the way, your new SPL meter is likely to be A weighted which will make you look more innocent and the guitarist and snare drum operator particularly culpable...[/quote]

In fairness to Maplins, it's actually C-weighted.

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[quote name='johnzgerman' post='592889' date='Sep 8 2009, 01:58 PM']rehersal and gigs are obviously two different things mainly because you will have a PA and monitors at a gig therefore will not need to have the backline at anywhere near the levels you might use in the practice room. also hopefully there will be an audience so the FOH sound is paramount as it is them you are playing to not yourselves. if you are going to turn your amp up after soundcheck there is little point in doing the soundcheck in the first place.[/quote]

The argument that usually comes back at me is: "Yes, but it'll sound completely different once the place is full of people."

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Guest johnzgerman

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='592987' date='Sep 8 2009, 03:55 PM']The argument that usually comes back at me is: "Yes, but it'll sound completely different once the place is full of people."[/quote]

yes it will, but that is for the sound engineer to deal with not the guitarist or bassist, the place is not going to be full of people if they cant enter the room due to their eardrums being perforated:)

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