Gig Promotors - Waste of time

[Linus27]

Bit of a rant here. Trying to book up a bunch of gigs from September through till December. Only around 8 so not lots. Contacted lots of promotors who I know are looking for bands to play, are asking for bands on their webpage/myspace page to play or the venues direct who are asking for band. I contact them, gig them some background on the band, a link to our Myspace page but do any of them get back to you? Like hell they do. Total waste of time. Just finding it very hard to get gigs at the moment and very frustrating.

Anyone else have problems with promotors/getting gigs?

[OldGit]

It[b] is [/b]August ............

Do you have a copy of gig-getter? Some good techniques in there to get into venues for the first time, which is what I assume you are doing.
[url="http://www.gig-getter.co.uk/"]http://www.gig-getter.co.uk/[/url]

[Geoff]

Yeah we have had this problem too. Most of them are pretty ignorant and will never get back to you.

A few months back we send out messages to over 50 promoters and only 8 or so got back to us. What is most annoying is that myspace seems to be the only way to contact half of these people, so they can easily ignore you.

Recently we have been getting a few more responses, so that is heartening, but it is still extremely hard trying to get gigs at the moment. Luckily weve started to get to know a few of them and they have helped get us on better shows.

[WHUFC BASS]

[quote name='Linus27' post='565729' date='Aug 11 2009, 10:41 AM']Bit of a rant here. Trying to book up a bunch of gigs from September through till December. Only around 8 so not lots. Contacted lots of promotors who I know are looking for bands to play, are asking for bands on their webpage/myspace page to play or the venues direct who are asking for band. I contact them, gig them some background on the band, a link to our Myspace page but do any of them get back to you? Like hell they do. Total waste of time. Just finding it very hard to get gigs at the moment and very frustrating.

Anyone else have problems with promotors/getting gigs?[/quote]

The truth is a lot of bands - even established bands are finding it hard at the moment. Many promoters don't want to risk wasting money on acts that will not get them a return and to be fair, I don't blame them. Many of the promoters on the scene I'm involved with are cutting back on putting gigs on as they are losing money. The recession is hitting the live music scene at the moment, too many bands chasing too few an audience.

[skankdelvar]

Until you're established, very few promoters will ever call you back. Once they've got your details, they'll mostly just sit on them. Unfortunately, the only way to kick them over the edge is to keep chiselling away at them.

If you've got a phone number, you just have to keep calling. If the only means of contact is a myspace page or a mail address, things become a bit more difficult, but not totally impossible.

Repeated contact is the only way you're going to break through and register on their radar.

Edited August 11, 2009 by skankdelvar

[cheddatom]

Around here if it's your first time at a venue, the promotor only calls with last minute gigs and demands you sell a sh*t load of tickets. The idea is he sees what you're made of and decides whether to call you back in the future.

Edited August 11, 2009 by cheddatom

[davidmpires]

Funny you say that, we just gor booked 6 gigs at the same place for the next couple months.
True we drew a pretty good crowd during the past 5 gigs there this summer and we always talk to the landlord. I came to find that promoters are useless and they don't have a clue. They want you to play for free while they are charging a fee.

I had a guy once telling me that he could only afford paying £30 to the band for a two hour set 60 miles from our usual place, I tried hard not to laugh.
Talk to the bar owners but don't go there at lunch times or in the evening when you know full well they are busy and get annoyed if you want to have a chat with them. Take your ipod or a cd player and let them hear it there and then and take also some pictures as well.

David

[rasher80]

It's tough alright. I'm in the position of being both in a band and running a monthly night in Manchester.

We are struggling ourselves for gigs, Manchester's "indie" scene is massively overpopulated with bands, and as such, unscrupulous promoters use the local scene as a cash cow, fleecing bands' fans and mates whilst doing no promotion. We avoid these guys but they are widespread, meaning it can be tough.

Ws also started our own night in response the the so-called "pay to play" gigs that are almost ubiquitous nowadays. Bands come to our monthly night, which has a great mix of comedy, music and performance poetry, and take 100% of the door. We do it for free because bands shouldn't get nothing for playing a gig.

However - you wouldn't believe how difficult it is just to make sure the nights run smoothly. Every month without fail we have someone let us down. One band's guitarist left and they didn't bother to tell us until we sent them out the soundcheck/stage times a week before. We thought that bands would want a gig and we'd be over-run with gig requests, but more often than not we have to chivvy and chase people to play!

[davidmpires]

[quote name='rasher80' post='565761' date='Aug 11 2009, 11:12 AM']However - you wouldn't believe how difficult it is just to make sure the nights run smoothly. Every month without fail we have someone let us down. One band's guitarist left and they didn't bother to tell us until we sent them out the soundcheck/stage times a week before. We thought that bands would want a gig and we'd be over-run with gig requests, but more often than not we have to chivvy and chase people to play![/quote]

I've heard that too. If the band is not professional then I'd say they don't play anywhere you promote. I can't think of not calling a place I'm booked at if I can't make it. I had to cancel a gig but instead of cancelling I got a band of a mate doing the gig for us, they enjoyed it and we didn't got know as the band who cancels and doesn't give a f###.

It's strange how people complain about not having gigs and then don't show up.

[OldGit]

[quote name='davidmpires' post='565764' date='Aug 11 2009, 11:17 AM']It's strange how people complain about not having gigs and then don't show up.[/quote]
... and how they complain about the promotor but do nothing themselves ..

[Linus27]

Thanks guys, thats a big help in understanding the situation. Having been out of the scene for 8 years and not really the one to book gigs, i was just wondering if I was doing something wrong.

Early next year we plan on releasing a single and video which should get us a bit more exposure so that might help get us some gigs.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='OldGit' post='565768' date='Aug 11 2009, 11:21 AM']... and how they complain about the promotor but do nothing themselves ..[/quote]

Yes, there is that, but it would be nice if the promotor actually did some promoting. In stoke, they will put band names on a poster in the venue and maybe on the door of the venue. Apart from that there is absolutely nothing. Anyone can book bands and hand out tickets, promotors should be promoting shouldn't they?

[Geoff]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='565778' date='Aug 11 2009, 11:29 AM']Yes, there is that, but it would be nice if the promotor actually did some promoting. In stoke, they will put band names on a poster in the venue and maybe on the door of the venue. Apart from that there is absolutely nothing. Anyone can book bands and hand out tickets, promotors should be promoting shouldn't they?[/quote]

+1

Obviously bands should push stuff as much as they can, but when you're trying to play in other cities you cant exactly pop down there with posters and flyers and promote 100% yourself. There are good promoters out there and im lucky that there are a couple of good ones here in Peterborough, but quite often you get the feeling that promoters cant be bothered.

[Musky]

Re the not hearing back from myspace messages, myspace have recently implemented a beta mail system which is giving a of of people grief. I can't send or reply to messages on there with my mac, and I know our drummer has had to reinstall IE to get it to work. If there is an alternative way of contacting them it might be worth trying that.

[Linus27]

[quote name='Musky' post='565786' date='Aug 11 2009, 11:34 AM']Re the not hearing back from myspace messages, myspace have recently implemented a beta mail system which is giving a of of people grief. I can't send or reply to messages on there with my mac, and I know our drummer has had to reinstall IE to get it to work. If there is an alternative way of contacting them it might be worth trying that.[/quote]

Thanks Musky, I never knew that. Will look at other options in contacting the promotors.

[William James Easton]

whats all this promoters pish? buy a generator and plug in outside said venue where promoter is fannying about. stick it to em.

D.I.Y son

then again are you contacting the 'right' people?

[rasher80]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='565778' date='Aug 11 2009, 11:29 AM']. Anyone can book bands and hand out tickets, promotors should be promoting shouldn't they?[/quote]

Absolutely. I think there is nothing wrong with the band undertaking some self-promotion; i think there would be something fundamentally wrong if they did nowt to publicise a gig.

BUT - as Cheddatom rightly points out, to be a successful promoter, you have to work hard at it. We list in the local media, the web, we poster everywhere we're allowed and (SHH!) hand out flyers too. Some of the best band nights in Manc run solely off reputation. The gigs don't [i][/i]need[i][/i] to be advertised as they are always brilliant, and unsurprisingly they have lists of bands wanting to play as long as your arm. Our night has only been running since June but it's going from strength to strength. Promoters are supposed to promote, end of - that's their job.

We have some right characters on the scene; one such person ran a busy night at a well-known CC venue. A band asked to be given their share of the ticket money they'd earned (about £80); the guy said "here's a tenner, now f*** off" and got the doormen to eject them from the premises.

[Bassmonster]

oh yes my band had three gigs in a row cancelled, on the subject of promotors our first 2 gigs of year were with the same people, the first time they asked us to bring a guitar amp (which we did) the gig was crap not well promoted hardly anyone there etc, you'd have thought my band would learn from that but no, despite my protests we gigged with them again, this time we provided 2 guitar amps, i was forced to play through a crappy 30w practice amp which had no business being there, again there was hardly anyone there and it was crap......never again my band will probably gig with them again ( a gig is a gig and all that).....its wembley or nothing i say

[Linus27]

I am just wondering if gigs are worth doing these days, or not as many as the old days. Just seems to be less of of scene these days for original bands. Do you think thats because of the recession, lack of money, health and safety shutting places down, lack of venues, to many bands and not enough places to play etc??

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Linus27' post='565810' date='Aug 11 2009, 12:04 PM']I am just wondering if gigs are worth doing these days, or not as many as the old days. Just seems to be less of of scene these days for original bands. Do you think thats because of the recession, lack of money, health and safety shutting places down, lack of venues, to many bands and not enough places to play etc??[/quote]

No that's just the impression you get from playing crap gigs. Hold out for Friday and Saturday nights in decent venues.

[dangerboy]

[quote name='rasher80' post='565761' date='Aug 11 2009, 11:12 AM']It's tough alright. I'm in the position of being both in a band and running a monthly night in Manchester.

We are struggling ourselves for gigs, Manchester's "indie" scene is massively overpopulated with bands, and as such, unscrupulous promoters use the local scene as a cash cow, fleecing bands' fans and mates whilst doing no promotion. We avoid these guys but they are widespread, meaning it can be tough.

Ws also started our own night in response the the so-called "pay to play" gigs that are almost ubiquitous nowadays. Bands come to our monthly night, which has a great mix of comedy, music and performance poetry, and take 100% of the door. We do it for free because bands shouldn't get nothing for playing a gig.

However - you wouldn't believe how difficult it is just to make sure the nights run smoothly. Every month without fail we have someone let us down. One band's guitarist left and they didn't bother to tell us until we sent them out the soundcheck/stage times a week before. We thought that bands would want a gig and we'd be over-run with gig requests, but more often than not we have to chivvy and chase people to play![/quote]

+1 to all of this, but substitute London for Manchester!

At Duel in the Deep (the experimental rock night I run with my friend Seb) we ignore a lot of the mails we get from bands on the grounds that it costs us money to put people on (we take nothing from the door), so if we're not into your music, why should we put you on? We get LOADS of email from bands who are completely unsuitable (ie they play metal, landfill indie etc) and never reply to them. To get good bands that will work together, we have to investigate, locate and chase!

I think the thing to remember about emailing promoters is that either:

1. They are in it to make money - if you can't guarantee them money, they don't care
2. They are in it for love, and love is subjective - they might not like your music

We put on 1 or 2 out-of-town bands a month, who usually don't bring in many people. This means that basically the other bands are subsidising them, but we do it for the love (and to help good bands out).

[dangerboy]

[quote name='Linus27' post='565810' date='Aug 11 2009, 12:04 PM']I am just wondering if gigs are worth doing these days, or not as many as the old days. Just seems to be less of of scene these days for original bands. Do you think thats because of the recession, lack of money, health and safety shutting places down, lack of venues, to many bands and not enough places to play etc??[/quote]

I would say that this is because you haven't met the right people yet. In terms of the stuff I'm into there are a big set of promoters doing interesting gigs. I know them, talk to them, I've usually put their band on, and that's who I would approach for gigs. The scene might be small, but it is tight, if you know what I mean.

What kind of stuff do you do?

[OldGit]

[quote name='rasher80' post='565792' date='Aug 11 2009, 11:39 AM']Absolutely. I think there is nothing wrong with the band undertaking some self-promotion; i think there would be something fundamentally wrong if they did nowt to publicise a gig.

BUT - as Cheddatom rightly points out, to be a successful promoter, you have to work hard at it. [b]We list in the local media, the web, we poster everywhere we're allowed and (SHH!) hand out flyers too. [/b]Some of the best band nights in Manc run solely off reputation. The gigs don't [i][/i]need[i][/i] to be advertised as they are always brilliant, and unsurprisingly they have lists of bands wanting to play as long as your arm. Our night has only been running since June but it's going from strength to strength. Promoters are supposed to promote, end of - that's their job.

We have some right characters on the scene; one such person ran a busy night at a well-known CC venue. A band asked to be given their share of the ticket money they'd earned (about £80); the guy said "here's a tenner, now f*** off" and got the doormen to eject them from the premises.[/quote]

Been round this one a few times eh Tom?


So look at that list there from Rasher. That's what a promoter is[i] supposed[/i] to do, by any normal criterion. However only the good promoters do that. Bad promotors do nowt much.

Now imagine if the band actually did all that lot as well..... Plus all the mailing lists, Myspace promo, actually telling mates about the gig, dragging along new people, doing promotions for groups like a free ticket for the organise who brings 10 people along etc. etc.

For "good promoter" gigs you'd then have twice as much promotion going on. For "bad promoter" gigs you'd have 100% of what a good promoter should do plus your stuff.

Who cares most about your band being successful;? If that's not you and your band mates then you are not going to succeed.

Simples...

and I'll repeat: get a copy of [url="http://www.gig-getter.co.uk/"]Gig-Getter, The Manual[/url]. It's getting out of date and says nowt about online promotion and myspace type communications but the offline stuff is relevant and works.

Stuff like:make a personal contact with the promoter, get an appointment and be prepared to go a few times as he may well have something more important to do and bow you out.
Don't bullsh1t about the hundreds of people you can take if that's not true. You will be branded a BS merchant and they do talk to each other so that will be you stuffed.
Take a promo pack with pictures, info, contact info, a demo CD or DVD labled well with your info (on the disc as well). yes you may well have a mysoace but the effort of going to look at it may be too much. And yo cant play a myspace in the car. Respect what they do and the challenges they face. Don't expect to get a plumb Friday night gig if you have no following because, as Rasher says, you're only going to get a few chances for love, then the money bit comes into play.

Do your bit, don't expect the promoter to do it all for you.

Edited August 11, 2009 by OldGit

[cheddatom]

[quote name='OldGit' post='565848' date='Aug 11 2009, 12:47 PM']Been round this one a few times eh Tom?[/quote]

Heh, you can say that again!!

This is why we've cut out the crap gigs, and we're keeping in touch with promoters much more etc.

[Jase]

[quote name='Linus27' post='565729' date='Aug 11 2009, 10:41 AM']Bit of a rant here. Trying to book up a bunch of gigs from September through till December. Only around 8 so not lots. Contacted lots of promotors who I know are looking for bands to play, are asking for bands on their webpage/myspace page to play or the venues direct who are asking for band. I contact them, gig them some background on the band, a link to our Myspace page but do any of them get back to you? Like hell they do. Total waste of time. Just finding it very hard to get gigs at the moment and very frustrating.

Anyone else have problems with promotors/getting gigs?[/quote]

8! Lucky sod We've managed to score one in September and one in October. As much as I'd like to be out there with my own bands stuff every night, once a month I think is a good target for an original act in the early stages.