Strict finger alternation?

[funkysimon]

Is strict alternation of your plucking fingers considered the "best" thing to do? I've been working on this recently with three note per string patterns, and also with things like the unison riff in Sir Duke. While it seems to make some sections easier, moments where I have to play something like this:
[size=2][font="Courier New"]...i m i
G -6---6---
D ---8-----
A ---------
E ---------[/font][/size]
i.e. alternate high string with my index finger, low string middle finger, make me start turning my wrist so my fingers point back towards the bridge of the guitar and generally feels a bit unnatural.

Is it something I should keep working on / worrying about?

[bass_ferret]

Well Jamerson only used one finger. Anything that feels unnatural is probably gonna hurt in the long term.

Are you raking? That is playing more than one string - in the pattern in your post there is no reason why you should not play the first two with one finger as having played the first note the finger will be in position to play then next on the D string.

[funkysimon]

Raking is what I'm trying to cut out, I find that if I'm playing quickly, the timing of the second of the raked notes is off (I rush it). Maybe I should work on making my raking more accurate instead

[bassbloke]

I'd be more inclined to play the C# with the middle or ring finger and the bB with my index finger

[funkysimon]

Yeah, me too, but if I follow a strict alternating finger pattern sometimes I'll end up doing something like that, which is why I came to question whether it's silly to try and maintain i m i m i m i m etc. even when changing strings.

[velvetkevorkian]

IMO it is better to alternate strictly and spend some time with the metronome doing tricky string crossings. This should help consistency no matter what you're playing. That's how I'd do it anyway.

[kneal6]

I've had this same problem - raking just makes the timing go out but strict alternation can be awkward if you're skipping strings like in your example.

Sometimes I find it easier to add a dead note or mute a string with my right hand in order to "realign" my fingers to make it play the other way round. If you do it right and make it tie in with the drums it makes the bassline better as well. Hope I explained that right....

[Ba55me15ter]

I'm definitely a raker - anything to improve economy of movement is a good thing imho.

Edited September 17, 2007 by Ba55me15ter

[s_u_y_*]

I think it is important to improve your finger alternation. Development of this can help with tricky basslines. But economy of movement is important in practise. So my thoughts, be sure to develop finger alternation, but go with what feels natural at the time.

[birdy]

If you want a good exercise for this try playing saw her standing there by the beatles without raking and using alternate fingering. I find this hard enough to play when raking!!

Steve

[bnt]

[quote name='funkysimon' post='55138' date='Sep 4 2007, 10:27 AM']i.e. alternate high string with my index finger, low string middle finger, make me start turning my wrist so my fingers point back towards the bridge of the guitar and generally feels a bit unnatural.[/quote]
That's odd - I find myself doing the opposite, pointing my fingers towards the nut. I suppose it's a related to how you wear the bass in general, neck level or angled up, low or high. When I see Mark King doing fingerstyle I wince, his wrist seems to bend at an unnatural angle.

[Ba55me15ter]

An excellent right-hand exercise I've been doing of late is the 'I Feel Love' bassline (as done by Flea on the live at Slane album).

root root octave octave 5th 5th minor 7th minor 7th (start at something like 5th fret D on A string).

Try doing it alternate fingering then try it raking. When raked, the finger pattern reverses every other time through.

[birdy]

[quote name='Ba55me15ter' post='62069' date='Sep 18 2007, 10:36 AM']An excellent right-hand exercise I've been doing of late is the 'I Feel Love' bassline (as done by Flea on the live at Slane album).

root root octave octave 5th 5th minor 7th minor 7th (start at something like 5th fret D on A string).

Try doing it alternate fingering then try it raking. When raked, the finger pattern reverses every other time through.[/quote]

Whats the best way to approach the LEFT hand fingering on this exercise? Anyone got any preferences. Tricky!

Steve

[Guest Bald Eagle]

[quote name='birdy' post='62663' date='Sep 19 2007, 01:13 PM']Whats the best way to approach the LEFT hand fingering on this exercise? Anyone got any preferences. Tricky!

Steve[/quote]

I rekon alternating for the right, index & pinkie for the left, seems to work for me anyway!

BTW Great exercise (& great choon) as well, thanks meister.

Actually I think I rake it kind off, no I alternate...I'm not sure really TBH

Edited September 19, 2007 by Bald Eagle

[gilmour]

Sorry but I really can't agree with the advice to just rake. Just soudns like taking the easy option to me.

I know that there is "no such thing as correct technique" but when you rake it not only screws up your timing but can be really detramental to your playing in the long run.

You need to alternate your fingering for more complex patterns and for funky deadnotes etc. I'm not saying I'm perfect, I still find myself raking the odd notes from time to time by accident, but when I do it trips me up.

Best practive is just to be really conscious that you are alternating your fingering, trying playing scales in thirds, and also try some cross string patterns but with a triplet feel.

[endorka]

[quote name='gilmour' post='66230' date='Sep 27 2007, 12:54 AM']Sorry but I really can't agree with the advice to just rake. Just soudns like taking the easy option to me.

I know that there is "no such thing as correct technique" but when you rake it not only screws up your timing but can be really detramental to your playing in the long run.[/quote]

I'd say there is nothing inherently wrong in taking the easy option if it works for you... I think either technique works well for some people and not for others, e.g. I rake plenty, and it doesn't have an effect on my timing. Which technique I use may depends on the particular bassline, oddities can creep in with either approach sometimes, although my default is to rake. Strictly alternating usually feels strange to me - if the finger is already on the string from the previous pluck, why not just use it again to save time and energy?

Jaco advocates the rake on one of his instructional videos...

Jennifer

[url="http://www.jenniferclarkbass.com"]http://www.jenniferclarkbass.com[/url]

[Ba55me15ter]

[quote name='gilmour' post='66230' date='Sep 27 2007, 12:54 AM']I know that there is "no such thing as correct technique" but when you rake it not only screws up your timing but can be really detramental to your playing in the long run.

You need to alternate your fingering for more complex patterns and for funky deadnotes etc. I'm not saying I'm perfect, I still find myself raking the odd notes from time to time by accident, but when I do it trips me up.[/quote]

You need to practice your raking then!

[gilmour]

Perhaps saying it messes with timing isn;t quite the correct expression. I might mean more phrasing/feel - I just don't see how you can get that really funky staccato dead note feel when you rake (think Rocco Prestia). A lot of the time you'l play one properley fretted note, then the next couple will be dead notes, the minute you do this and start trying to move accross strings you gotta alternate. Once you're used to doing that why rake?

When I talk about rakes I mean plying on one string with one finger, then using the same finger to play on a different string (usually descending) i.e. raking down the fretboard - is this what everyone else means - cause some of the things above make me think that I have a slightly different definition?

Stylistic thing also I guess.

[Bilbo]

I think its a little more complicated than one or the other.

When you are playing lines that cross strings, you will sometimes need to play with alternate fingers on you right (playing) hand and sometimes rake. I like to compare it to a drummer: sometimes you just need a paradiddle to change priorities on your alternating hand. The issue is that you need to be ready to play the next note wherever you are. Sometimes this is easier than others.

My suggested exercise is to take some short sixteenth note passages, two bars or so, and play them starting on different fingers. Then you will develop insight into which fingering patterns need work.

A great line for practising this is Darryl Jones main riff on John Scofield's 'Techno' (off the CD 'Still Warm').

[Delberthot]

I have always used my index more than my middle finger but I am more comfortable this way.

I used to get lessons when I was 15 from James Finnegan (Hue & Cry and Stiltskin) and he used to get me to play alternate fingers.

Whenever I am playing a gig I half expect him to come up to me and tell me to play it properly.

One kind of unfunny thing happened to me last week - I was playing a long gig. I have a skin thingy that means that my skin sometimes gets thin in areas (no you can't catch it). I went to adjust my tie under my bass and made contact with my right middle finger and left pinky.

this resulted in me cutting open my right middle finger. Luckily it was half an hour before the end of the gig and I was able to play with thumb and index finger until the singer decided to do "Let Me Entertain You" by Robbie Williams. Carp as Robbie is, this song is very fast so i had no choice but to play it with both fingers. Pain city but I was able to play it spot on.

Back on topic - if you want to practice alternating fingers try "hit Me with your Rhythm stick" by Ian Dury and the Blockheads. I believe its the ultimate tune for practicing this

[51m0n]

I rake, 3 fingers, RMIRMIRMI, cheat any which way I can to remove any unnecessary motion. As far as feel goes, I don't have an issue with timing, and I use left hand muting for staccato; since we are talking about descending lines this is simple.

Also use RH muting using next finger in line and recommend playing open strings ultra staccato using RH muting only at low BPMs since it helps build speed, feel, and muting techniques. Absolutely horses for courses. Oh and 3 finger RMI means I have to be able to start almost every groove on any finger, thats pretty much a given... (only exception I can think of being heavily triplet based like 'Violent & Funky' by Infectious Grooves)

There is always a battle to maintain the 3 finger technique and callouses such that there is no really discernible triplet accent in there, but that's another story.

Alternate if you think it helps you, not doing so just hasn't stopped me expressing the feel that I want to....