AI in music

[TimR]

51 minutes ago, Uncle Rodney said:

Just a different view, perhaps. I had this discussion with our drummer. I said to him - you are from a different culture than me, and me from you. The singer has his own culture, it's us in this rehearsal room who then brings these different cultures togther and we play our music as one. I will learn vibes from your culture and you from me. AI can never do that.

 

It's the new world order. We all become one assimilated culture all speaking the same language, living by the same rules, using the same currency, eating the same food.

 

I think there's a book about it. 

[EliasMooseblaster]

It doesn't help that "AI" has become a catch-all term for asking a large language model or neural network to carry out a task, and I suspect this obfuscation is deliberate.

 

Still, there's obviously a world of difference between people using one of these models to help with an awkward task (e.g., sort out the phase on these tracks, separate these tracks I accidentally bounced) and the people who put a prompt into Suno, get a three-minute pop song back out and start squealing "OMG I done a music!"

 

To that latter group: I read somewhere about a teacher who refused to read AI-generated essays from their students, saying "if you couldn't be bothered to write it, why should I bother to read it?" Personally, I feel the same way about AI-generated songs.

[Al Krow]

With AI, is the situation different to Henry Ford inventing the production line and taking work away from skilled workers who had the skills to put a whole engine together from scratch? Do we complain about AI coming up with better computer code to enable more rapid and successful cancer diagnosis, and lament the loss of software engineering jobs for graduates who have invested time and treasure in their chosen careers? Or do we musicians now find it a concern because it's getting a bit too close to home for comfort?  AI opens the door of creativity to many, whilst challenging the livelihoods of others already skilled in the art of songwriting and of the session musicians and sound engineers laying down parts on recorded tracks. Just as having the ability to play the horn parts on keys, using a drum synth or downloading backing tracks for live performance, has already done for decades. 

 

Authenticity is, for me, key here - let's be honest when AI has been a significant part of the creative process and not pass it off as being purely our own work?

 

But if, for example, AI had written "At Last" for Etta James to sing, or "Can't help falling in love" performed by Elvis, would we have listened? Will the audience care who wrote the song if hearing it gives them joy? Or is this all just taking us back to the time pre-Beatles when 95% (I'm guessing here!) of leading performers had their song material provided for them? And 100% of covers and tribute bands already do today?

 

AI can't fake a live performance by a human band, which is what audiences want to provide them with the soundtrack to their weddings or parties and end-of-the week nights out. They can already listen to a Jukebox or hire a DJ if that's what they prefer. So, whilst I fear for the future of any aspiring songwriter trying to break through in the fearsomely tough world of the original musician, I'm very glad we can be out at gigs each week doing something we love.

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Al Krow

[chris_b]

8 minutes ago, EliasMooseblaster said:

. . . .  I read somewhere about a teacher who refused to read AI-generated essays from their students, saying "if you couldn't be bothered to write it, why should I bother to read it?"

 

 

A major university in London started to move towards course work instead of sitting exams. Now they're moving back to the exam room due to the amount of AI students were submitting as their own work!! We're also seeing smart watches being used for cheating in exams, alongside multiple phones secreted in socks and anywhere else they can think of. I guess technology has always been used for cheating, but these days it's being used by students on an industrial scale. AI is a powerful tool for good and bad, depending on the person using it.

[Al Krow]

4 hours ago, chris_b said:

 

A major university in London started to move towards course work instead of sitting exams. Now they're moving back to the exam room due to the amount of AI students were submitting as their own work!! We're also seeing smart watches being used for cheating in exams, alongside multiple phones secreted in socks and anywhere else they can think of. I guess technology has always been used for cheating, but these days it's being used by students on an industrial scale. AI is a powerful tool for good and bad, depending on the person using it.

 

100% 

 

And, as I said at the end of my previous post, the parallel is that AI can't fake a live performance by a human band, which is what audiences want. They can already listen to a Jukebox if they wanted. So whilst I fear for the future of the aspiring song writer in my band, who's working on his 4th album, I'm very glad we can be out at gigs each week doing something we love.

Edited 1 hour ago by Al Krow

[nekomatic]

One other thing to be aware of is that there’s no guarantee that the current generation of free or cheap to use generative AI tools will stay available forever, let alone get better and better for the same free or cheap price. All the companies providing them are running on vast amounts of venture capital based on hypothetical vast future profits, which nobody can explain how free or cheap AI models will actually deliver. A lot of people are predicting that this business model has to fall apart sooner or later. 

[TimR]

Quite.

 

It's only free while we do their Beta testing for them.

[Ben Jamin]

In the wise words of Dr. Ian Malcolm:
 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Ben Jamin

[Cato]

30 minutes ago, nekomatic said:

One other thing to be aware of is that there’s no guarantee that the current generation of free or cheap to use generative AI tools will stay available forever, let alone get better and better for the same free or cheap price. All the companies providing them are running on vast amounts of venture capital based on hypothetical vast future profits, which nobody can explain how free or cheap AI models will actually deliver. A lot of people are predicting that this business model has to fall apart sooner or later. 

 

There are also power supply issues.

 

There's already speculation that the US power grid can't support all the AI data centres that are planned even if many of them build their own generation facilities ,which, depending on the type of generation being planned is it's own russian doll of environmental and logistical issues.

 

There's additional concerns about the water supply for cooling. Again datacentres can build their own boreholes, or tap rivers, etc but there's only so much of that you can do before it starts to affect the local water supply for agriculture and residential use.

 

Neither issue is insurmountable but it's doubtful if it can be done in the same timeframe as the new data centres will be needed to support the expected massive uptake in AI services.

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Cato

[Geddys nose]

A friend of mine is a poet and has used Suno to put music to his words, he loves it and gets a massive buzz out of it.

 

Its just a tool, if it brings the user enjoyment who I’m I to question.

 

 

[dave_bass5]

Today’s Logic Pro update has a cool new feature that lets you drag midi or audio to a chord track and it gives you the chords over the track. 
To me that’s going to be a huge time saver when working out songs. I can imagine it’s not going to be totally accurate, but a good starting block. Another + for AI in my book. 

[SteveXFR]

22 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Today’s Logic Pro update has a cool new feature that lets you drag midi or audio to a chord track and it gives you the chords over the track. 
To me that’s going to be a huge time saver when working out songs. I can imagine it’s not going to be totally accurate, but a good starting block. Another + for AI in my book. 

 

I don't think thats technically AI. Its just an analysis tool in the software. 

A lot of things are getting called AI in the marketing nonsense when they're not.

[Uncle Rodney]

5 hours ago, TimR said:

 

It's the new world order. We all become one assimilated culture all speaking the same language, living by the same rules, using the same currency, eating the same food.

 

I think there's a book about it. 

-

🙂 ah I was hoping not to go in that direction. Yes I agree the UK has been intentionally culturally modified etc. That wasn't what I was thinking about though, maybe think in terms of north-south divide.

 

So imagine being in a band where there's someone from the industrial north, south of England, South Wales and Brum. All four will have grown up in very different surroundings, very different schools. Also think of different era. A person growing up in the 1970s will have a very different social upbringing than a person from the 1990s. Imagine then a band with those four very different mind-set or in my term, culture, I'm sure it will produce it's own vibe.

 

 

[dave_bass5]

10 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

 

I don't think thats technically AI. Its just an analysis tool in the software. 

A lot of things are getting called AI in the marketing nonsense when they're not.

Well it has a higher intelligence than me, thats for sure. 🤣

[TimR]

42 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Today’s Logic Pro update has a cool new feature that lets you drag midi or audio to a chord track and it gives you the chords over the track. 
To me that’s going to be a huge time saver when working out songs. I can imagine it’s not going to be totally accurate, but a good starting block. Another + for AI in my book. 

 

That's basically replacing a key requirement of what it means to be a musician. Although it will be interesting if it can do that in real time with other musicians and then improvise. 

[dave_bass5]

17 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

That's basically replacing a key requirement of what it means to be a musician. Although it will be interesting if it can do that in real time with other musicians and then improvise. 

It’s not replacing anything, it’s changing how you go about doing something. Speeding up the process. 

[SteveXFR]

17 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

It’s not replacing anything, it’s changing how you go about doing something. Speeding up the process. 

 

Its definitely replacing a skill.

[Al Krow]

11 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

 

Its definitely replacing a skill.

 

For sure. Just as Henry Ford did with the car production line (see longer post above).

[TimR]

2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

For sure. Just as Henry Ford did with the car production line (see longer post above).

 

Not really. There's no actual skill in assembling something the same over and over again. Practically anyone who has ever worked on a production line can do it. They have children doing it in some countries. 

 

I used to put bottles on a conveyor belt in a bottling plant. No skill, just a bad back. Robots do it now, thank god. 

 

This is why AI will only replace certain mundane tasks. 

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by TimR

[Al Krow]

4 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

Not really. There's no actual skill in assembling something the same over and over again. Practically anyone who has ever worked on a production line can do it. They have children doing it in some countries. 

 

I used to put bottles on a conveyor belt in a bottling plant. No skill, just a bad back. Robots do it now, thank god. 

 

This is why AI will only replace certain mundane tasks. 

 

You miss the point?

 

The invention of the production line took away skilled work from mechanics who were able to able to put a whole engine together from scratch.

 

AI already has the ability to take work away from skilled song writers, which I wouldn't regard as a mundane task, or have we all been wasting our time discussing that very issue on this thread?😅

[BigRedX]

36 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

Its definitely replacing a skill.

 

It's no more replacing a skill than using on-line tabs or a YouTube play-along to save you having to work out the baseline of a song by listening to it.

[SteveXFR]

I think AI needs to be regulated for the benefit of everyone. If it replaces all the skilled workers then thats millions of people losing their jobs, countries losing vast amounts of disposable income within the population and ultimately, no one has the money to buy whatever it is that AI is manufacturing. 

[BigRedX]

20 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

AI already has the ability to take work away from skilled song writers, which I wouldn't regard as a mundane task, or have we all been wasting our time discussing that very issue on this thread?😅

 

Right now I don't think AI is taking anything away from truly skilled songwriters.

 

All the AI generated songs I have heard so far are very formulaic which is why it can do a fairly decent job in some genres. 

 

However all the really interesting and successful songs are those that manage to do something different enough to stand out whilst still fitting into a particular genre. AI can't make that leap right now because all it is doing is regurgitating in a slightly different way what has already been done.

 

Also I doubt whether the sorts of people who would be happy with AI generated songs are the sorts of people who go and see the kinds of bands we play in.

Edited 40 minutes ago by BigRedX