Pete Academy Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 There are certain bass parts that seem quite easy to play, but when you actually learn them they just don't sound right, no matter how long you study them. For me, a prime example is 'Sex Machine'. A few simple notes, but you try to make it sound and feel like Bootsy...impossible. Another one is Steely Dan's 'Kid Charlemagne'. I've been playing this song for 12 years, and I've studied it note for note, but I can't for the life of me get it dead right. The feel is unbelievable - funk/reggae. Chuck Rainey freely admits it's probably his finest moment. Anyone else have an example of this phenomenom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Pete Academy' post='517811' date='Jun 18 2009, 08:43 PM']There are certain bass parts that seem quite easy to play, but when you actually learn them they just don't sound right, no matter how long you study them. For me, a prime example is 'Sex Machine'. A few simple notes, but you try to make it sound and feel like Bootsy...impossible. Another one is Steely Dan's 'Kid Charlemagne'. I've been playing this song for 12 years, and I've studied it note for note, but I can't for the life of me get it dead right. The feel is unbelievable - funk/reggae. Chuck Rainey freely admits it's probably his finest moment. Anyone else have an example of this phenomenom?[/quote]It's not a phenomenom, it's the same as trying to paint an exact replica of a Francis Bacon or David Caravaggio painting. It will never be in you or me to play these parts that were recorded by the originals, like the originals. The closest we might get, is a decent faximile. Sorry. Edited June 18, 2009 by steve-soar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rohan Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I always found "Get up and jump" by the chillis never sounded right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tait Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 [quote name='Pete Academy' post='517811' date='Jun 18 2009, 08:43 PM']There are certain bass parts that seem quite easy to play, but when you actually learn them they just don't sound right, no matter how long you study them. For me, a prime example is 'Sex Machine'. A few simple notes, but you try to make it sound and feel like Bootsy...impossible. Another one is Steely Dan's 'Kid Charlemagne'. I've been playing this song for 12 years, and I've studied it note for note, but I can't for the life of me get it dead right. The feel is unbelievable - funk/reggae. Chuck Rainey freely admits it's probably his finest moment. Anyone else have an example of this phenomenom?[/quote] Sex Machine? ahh crap, i gotta learn that for a gig i got coming up, it sounded easy so i've not bothered trying it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 Youi can copy a bass part but you can't copy the original bassplayer's feel and mood on the day. Makes us all unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturm Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 not sure if its the same, but its taken me 6 weeks to get the timing of van morrisons' 'brown-eyed girl' sorted and even though everyone else tells me im in time and it sounds good im still not convinced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouMa Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Dream on dreamer and sex machine always get me yet they should be simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eight Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) Different end of the spectrum probably but "Everybody Needs Somebody" drives me insane sometimes. I can play it note for note (and backwards if I want to), but can't figure out why Dunn's version sounds so much better than mine. The only answer I've come up with is - he's Donald "Duck" Dunn... and I'm not. Edited June 18, 2009 by Eight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kongo Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Have you ever tried recording it, then playing it back? I often find when YOU play it and hear YOU back it sounds wrong...But to the listener it sounds fine and you'll find this if you record it and then play it back to yourself. But I also have to agree, it's like painting a replica. WHat I said above won't always work. There's more to playing than just notes...Finger flesh & strength for tone and natural sence of rhythm create what they made. But I get facinated when I listen to a cover that's NOT trying to be exactly like the original...It's amazing how different a different person can make the same song sound (dare he say it again)...Different! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul h Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Of course the moral here is don't bother to learn the original. Get a grasp of the song, and get the guitar player to give you a nod for the changes. Make everything else up on the spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesparky Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) Yup, i know what you mean, For me it's Extreme - Cupids Dead I love that song, great middle break. However i just CAN'T nail it on demand. I can comfortably play the intro, verse, chorus, middle riff, solo etc, but I just can't pull it together all at once. It's so annoying when you know it's within your abilities yet for some reason you can't do it. But then again, half the fun of trying is finding it hard. Maybe like the Frasier episode where it's on about the first time you beat your Dad at something and you feel like you can't respect him anymore.. (am i waffling?). Edited June 19, 2009 by bluesparky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatboter Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 A lot of countrysongs have an explicite bass-feel which is hard to master...it seems dead easy but the length of the notes is so important and changes the whole thing. I have more trouble playing "Why not me" by The Judds with the required feel than playing Level 42's "Love Games" funny enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestar Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 [quote name='Pete Academy' post='517811' date='Jun 18 2009, 08:43 PM']There are certain bass parts that seem quite easy to play, but when you actually learn them they just don't sound right, no matter how long you study them. For me, a prime example is 'Sex Machine'. A few simple notes, but you try to make it sound and feel like Bootsy...impossible. Another one is Steely Dan's 'Kid Charlemagne'. I've been playing this song for 12 years, and I've studied it note for note, but I can't for the life of me get it dead right. The feel is unbelievable - funk/reggae. Chuck Rainey freely admits it's probably his finest moment. Anyone else have an example of this phenomenom?[/quote] I couldn't agree more on this We recorded Kid Charlemagne as part of a little project with a guitard friend. It wasn't too bad until the fantastic guitar solo; the bass part took me ages and was really hard, never felt that confident with the rest of the song either if I'm honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlloyd Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 [quote name='steve-soar' post='517832' date='Jun 18 2009, 08:58 PM']It's not a phenomenom, it's the same as trying to paint an exact replica of a Francis Bacon or David Caravaggio painting. It will never be in you or me to play these parts that were recorded by the originals, like the originals. The closest we might get, is a decent faximile. Sorry. [/quote] David Caravaggio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardi100 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Sledgehamer, Peter Gabriel. Should be a piece of piss but I had real trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorick Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I always have problems with La Villa Strangiato! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayfan Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 [quote name='Pete Academy' post='517849' date='Jun 18 2009, 09:27 PM']Youi can copy a bass part but you can't copy the original bassplayer's feel and mood on the day. Makes us all unique.[/quote] ..or the way it was done in six takes on the day and edited afterwards. Esp these days with ProTools etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey D Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 [quote name='Eight' post='517939' date='Jun 18 2009, 10:50 PM']Different end of the spectrum probably but "Everybody Needs Somebody" drives me insane sometimes. I can play it note for note (and backwards if I want to), but can't figure out why Dunn's version sounds so much better than mine.[/quote] It's because of his amazing beard and pipe combo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) [quote name='dlloyd' post='518129' date='Jun 19 2009, 09:55 AM']David Caravaggio?[/quote] From The English Patient, I guess .. Daniel Defoe played the part in the film, I think Back OT : A recording captures a million little mini factors in a snapshot of time ... You'll never do it just as they did and they almost certainly won't be able to play your lines just like you. Don't worry because the rest of your band won't sound like their counterparts either... Have a listen to some live albums, even the people that played the orginals can't always sound like themselves .... Edited June 19, 2009 by OldGit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eight Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 [quote name='Mikey D' post='518179' date='Jun 19 2009, 10:54 AM']It's because of his amazing beard and pipe combo![/quote] It is? Right... I'm off pipe shopping (I already have a bit of a beard thing going on). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamWoodBass Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 For me its Marcus Miller. Theres some lines that sound great when I play them and I can play them note for note but when I compare them to Marcus they just dont feel right. I suppose thats the advantage of developing your own sound for 30 odd years like Marcus has, nobody else is gonna be able to nail it the way you can. It's not just about studying the notes in the song, you have to spend years studying the player and their technique and all you become is a clone of that player. Sure Jaco is amazing but do you really want to just sound like a Jaco wannabe? So with that in mind I do kind of agree with Paul H, put your own identity on it. Obviously if you're in a covers band and you're doing songs that have really distinctive bass lines then learn them but if you're maybe doing jazz or funk or blues and there's nothing specific to play then thats your oportunity to have fun with it and make it your own. I love it when I go see a jazz band and they do their own version or arrangement of a tune, just gives it a fresh feel if its a tune you already know and have maybe gotten bored of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Pretty much everything Bernard Edwards ever played. Playing the notes is easy, it's getting that irresistable groove thang going that's so difficult. Good Times is a perfect case in point... it's what he[i] doesn't [/i]play that makes the line such a classic. [size=1]If you see what I mean.[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestar Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) [quote name='ardi100' post='518173' date='Jun 19 2009, 10:48 AM']Sledgehamer, Peter Gabriel. Should be a piece of piss but I had real trouble.[/quote] We do that one it took me a while to get it but a lot of nailing the groove is down to the drummer. Unless he can play like Manu Katche and you're Tony Levin, he has to play it fairly straight and leave plenty of space or it's really tricky with a busy bass line like this. Slowing down a little helped us too. I love playing this song. Mike Edited June 19, 2009 by lonestar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulfinger Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 [quote name='Rich' post='518287' date='Jun 19 2009, 01:32 PM']Pretty much everything Bernard Edwards ever played.[/quote] Beat me to it. Also Paul Jackson had such a unique feel that´s impossible to get for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestar Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 [quote name='Rich' post='518287' date='Jun 19 2009, 12:32 PM']Pretty much everything Bernard Edwards ever played. Playing the notes is easy, it's getting that irresistable groove thang going that's so difficult. Good Times is a perfect case in point... it's what he[i] doesn't [/i]play that makes the line such a classic. [size=1]If you see what I mean.[/size][/quote] I couldn't agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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