Rumble 800 combo not loud enough??

[Suezee]

I play in a 5 piece rock band: 2 guitarists drummer, bass and singer. No soundman & dont go through PA; just a backline. Im finding it difficult to hear my amp and last gig my output was switched to full with gain & master at 75% and vintage button pressed in. I got this combo as so many rave reviews about how loud it is & of course lightweight. Replaced my LM800 head & 4x10 cab which barely went above 25% on master vol. I know Im only  400w but surely that should cut through? Or maybe we are just too loud? Am I best off getting the 115 extension cab or 2x10?

 

[Japhet]

I have the 500 combo (recently acquired). I've gigged it once going straight into the amp just to see what it was capable of and it seemed plenty loud to me. Next time I'll be using my pedal board and I'm pretty sure my MicroThumpinator will yield big results. It cuts out all of the frequencies below 37Hz (I think) and those frequencies gobble up the output of the amp with no sonic benefit. I'd strongly advise trying one out because it concentrates the power of your amp in frequencies that can actually be heard and cuts out the woolly stuff that either sounds dreadful or can't be heard at all.

Edited yesterday at 12:31 by Japhet

[synthaside]

Yes  you guys are probably way too loud .... Buy a cheap  DB meter on amazon there around 18 quid and check your volume in the room .
 

Everywhere you play these days unless your playing a stadium is going to have a health and safety limit to protect their staff , 100 decibel peaking combined is on the verge of too loud especially in an rehearsal room , we use the meter balance our  volume for each of the instruments it solves a lot of those noise wars that guitarists love to Engauge in as they turn up over each other.

As Someone who also doesn't seem to get on with any of the fender rumble , ( who also happens to play an active stingray ) Whenever i have had the fender rumble forced upon me at shared Stage's rehearsal rooms etc i have had to do some very weird EQ'ing  to cut through to get the sound / clarity that i have / want  out of one of these , I find them both lacking the mids and  Very boomy  in the low end , both area's which i want to minimise to cut through. 

> What does your EQ look like on the amp
> What does your EQ look like on the Ray 
>  Have you changed your battery recently  (  i did this and my volume increased quite dramatically turns out i do forget to unplug it a lot )

pushing your mids will really help you cut through a mix.

[synthaside]

Also Remember , Decibels aren't a linear scale ,  so if something is  10 DB more than another thing it's a 10 fold increase in sound intensity

So when one of the guitarists or the drummer goes its  only  110 or 120  and a Jackhammer is usually about 80 DB 😉

[Lozz196]

Four ten inch speakers as oppose to two - assuming similar quality - will more than likely make a difference, you`ve reduced the "bigness" of the sound by half, same as if you`d paired your LM800 with a 210 rather than 410 there would be an impact of the size of the sound.

 

One thing to think of, although you`re having difficulty hearing the amp when playing @Suezee, did you get the opportunity to hear the mix of the band out front. Sometimes just elevating the combo and getting it off the ground can work wonders.

 

Re another cab, double up on whatever format your combo is, if 210 then get the same cab-wise. 

[Phil Starr]

I can't help but think that you must be too loud. You don't need a sound level meter you can get free apps for your phone which will do a simple measurement. All you need to be able to do is to match the output of your drummer. Who may be too loud of course. At rehearsal you should be way below gig levels 

 

It's a problem with a lot of inexperienced bands, rehearsal is as often about getting out and making as much noise as possible rather than working on learning or improving new material.

 

Bands playing flat out will damage your hearing. Measurements at Glastonbury showed Drummers experiencing 103db and most of the band 100db average levels. That's way above the safe levels where you would be wearing protective gear in an industrial site. You'll suffer permanent hearing damage in less than 15 mins at this level. Think about wearing in ears as soon as possible. They cut external noise by maybe 20db depending upon fit and when you get the mix right you'll hear everything better. It may be that your problem hearing yourself is that your hearing has been damaged at rehearsal. 

 

Hearing your self isn't just about volume, it is also about direction and frequency. Firsly make sure none of the guitar amps are pointing at you. They are very directional and should be pointing at the guitarists ears, usually they are pointed at the back of their legs or at some other band member who doesn't need that much guitar. Secondly point your own amp at your own ears. Speakers are very directional, like a torch beam so standing off axis is standing out of the beam. 

 

Secondly the frequencies you need most are the mids boost these. Most amps have artificial boost of the bass and treble to make them sound better at low volumes in the showroom. Cutting the bass also lets you use more volume as the bass is soaking up the power and moving the speakers into distortion. Cut the bass and treble.

 

Mainly though get the others to turn down and the drummer to back off too if they are too loud. My guess is that none of you can hear yourselves well and each of you is edging your volume up to emerge from the overwhelming noise level. Basically you are all fighting a volume war. Our ears aren't designed to work at  the volume of a Rumble at full volume and they don't hear well. Keep going and that will become permanent.

[BassAdder60]

I tried my LM IV with a MarkBass 210 single cab and it was loud enough but not full enough 

 

Adding a matching second cab and stacking vertically made the whole rig fuller at lower volume and I could hear it perfectly. 

[bobbytodd]

try tilting your amp backwards so the speakers point closer to your head 

[jezzaboy]

I think you are correct in that your band is too loud. I gigged a Rumble 500 in quite large pubs with a loud drummer and 2 Marshall valve numpties and it was always loud enough.

[casapete]

2 hours ago, jezzaboy said:

I think you are correct in that your band is too loud. I gigged a Rumble 500 in quite large pubs with a loud drummer and 2 Marshall valve numpties and it was always loud enough.

+1 

 

My Rumble 500 coped with being used in a very loud blues rock band, and I don’t remember having

it above 5 on the input and master level controls. 

In a case of ( to quote Deep Purple I think )’let’s have everything louder than everything else’ then your

800 may just be part of the melee, whilst being very loud itself if you see what I mean.

As @Lozz196 says above, if you honestly think you need an extension cab, then get the 2x10.

Not the same Neo speakers in that as your combo, but should sound fine nevertheless. 
Even better, just get everyone to turn down and it won’t cost you anything….

[Norris]

You've not done something silly like turning the volume down on your bass have you? Or batteries running low? Either that, or like others have said you are ridiculously loud.

 

Another Rumble 500 user here btw. That has plenty of power for pretty much any situation.

[jay bass]

I would also advise the use of a High Pass Filter at the sort of levels you are playing this eliminates all the sub bass energy that your speakers are trying to handle and you cant actually hear. Set around 40 Hz shgould be fine, but to get full power you will need another 8Ohm cab to go with the combo.

i use the Rumble Stage 800 for a backline and rarely go above 12 o clock on the volume  and often dont need much through the PA, if i need the extra power for a large gig i have another rumble 2x 10 cab i can use. i use a Broughton Hi pass filter to stop all the unwanted speaker flap etc.

[JohnDaBass]

12 hours ago, jezzaboy said:

I think you are correct in that your band is too loud. I gigged a Rumble 500 in quite large pubs with a loud drummer and 2 Marshall valve numpties and it was always loud enough.

+1

Also a Rumble 800 combo user and I don't ever recall not being loud enough for any gigs. I also have a Rumble 800HD driving one or two BF Super Compact 12s and again never suffering any lack of power.

Check out the advice from @Phil Starr and try to involve the whole band in a reassessment of your sound stage.

One point to check is the external speaker impedance switch, and follow the manual for the correct settings.

I support the advice from others that a 2x10 extension cab would be the best way forward to access the full 800 watts, more importantly the extra speaker area will give you a step up in overall sound output.

[warwickhunt]

I've used loads (and loads) of amps over the years and once you get above a 300 (genuine) watt rating, with a reasonable speaker array (210, 112 or 115... heck some good 110 cabs will cut it) you generally have enough power to be heard over an enthusiastic drummer; especially in a rehearsal room.  

 

However, what the guitarist(s) are doing, your EQ, room size/shape, cab positioning, drummer location etc can all affect how well you'll be heard.  As others have said, you all need to be looking at ear protection, especially in small rehearsal spaces where you are playing with a drummer (cymbals destroy bass players ears).  Get everyone else to turn down would be my starting point; the drummer playing at their comfortable level should be the loudest thing in the band, if you are drowning any of the drums out you are too loud... says the man who has been in many pitched battles with overly loud bandmates!  LOL

 

Oh and I had reason to use a Rumble 500 combo at a rehearsal room the other week and it was seriously loud when it was barely ticking over, so I don't think the gear is at fault unless it is set up incorrectly!  

Edited 10 hours ago by warwickhunt

[ian61]

22 hours ago, Suezee said:

vintage button pressed in

There's ur problem. As the band get louder you need to reduce bass and push mids, almost to the point where it sounds weedy and crap on stage...however out there in the room it'll be punchin thru.

[aniki]

I wouldn't mind betting that either one or both of the guitarists have WAY too much bass on their eq.

Sure, it sounds nice and heavy in isolation but totally inappropriate in a band situation and sadly very common!
Start with just drums. Then add bass; can you get loud enough to comfortably match the drum volume?

If so, your equipment is fine.

The guitarists should then turn up enough to form that cohesive blend where you all sound like 'a band' rather than several people playing their instruments in the same room if you get my meaning...