The more I practise, the more critical I become and I'm starting to lose confidence

[kwmlondon]

I practise every day. I have done since I got serious about playing and getting decent on the intstrument back in 2019. I've been playing bass for over 30 years and used to have loads of confidence, but recently now I'm really trying to get good at it but I am finding that the more work I put in the more annoyed I get and over the past week I've started to get angry with myself. I'm actually turning down in rehearsals with the band now because I am losing confidence. Midlife crisis maybe? I don't know. Anyone else ever get this? Please. Need some reassurance.

[Lozz196]

Instead of practicing and concentrating maybe let yourself go and play and immerse yourself just in that, a try to stop thinking and just do sort of thing. 

[chris_b]

Good gear leaves you nowhere to hide. It puts your playing and technique under a microscope. You hear stuff that average gear covers up. That's one part of becoming a better player. 

 

You've raised your standards, what you expect from yourself, and your fingers and brain haven't caught up yet. That's not a bad situation. Some players are born at the top of their game and playing an instrument is no effort, others have to work harder to get there. It's always better that your expectations are ahead of your abilities. That's how we improve. Be impatient, but don't beat yourself up! Just look at yourself a year ago, 2 years ago, and if you are better now than you were then, you are progressing.

 

You're in a band? What do they think? You don't have to ask outright, that might be embarrassing, but check out if they are happy with your playing on particular songs.

[kwmlondon]

19 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Instead of practicing and concentrating maybe let yourself go and play and immerse yourself just in that, a try to stop thinking and just do sort of thing. 

But when I've played with musicians recently i've found myself turning the volume down so I don't have to listen to myself.

[Burns-bass]

What you’re doing is making progress. So many people don’t practise anything worthwhile but endlessly play what they know.

 

Dont deny yourself opportunities but persevere, as you’re doing great stuff. 
 

I find taking time away helps hugely. I was struggling with a really tough classical passage and my teacher told me to leave it for a week and do something else. It really helped. 

[kwmlondon]

9 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Good gear leaves you nowhere to hide. It puts your playing and technique under a microscope. You hear stuff that average gear covers up. That's one part of becoming a better player. 

 

You've raised your standards, what you expect from yourself, and your fingers and brain haven't caught up yet. That's not a bad situation. Some players are born at the top of their game and playing an instrument is no effort, others have to work harder to get there. It's always better that your expectations are ahead of your abilities. That's how we improve. Be impatient, but don't beat yourself up! Just look at yourself a year ago, 2 years ago, and if you are better now than you were then, you are progressing.

 

You're in a band? What do they think? You don't have to ask outright, that might be embarrassing, but check out if they are happy with your playing on particular songs.

Yeah, that's true - I am much better than I was a couple of years ago but I don't FEEL like I'm enjoying it.

 

My band members? When I say I am getting frustrated with my playing they just say how good I am, which is kind and nice but honestly I don't think they really know what I'm doing anyway. They don't listen very well. A couple of times I've actually stopped and nobody's noticed!

[Paul S]

I lean the other way.  I'd be interested to know why you feel the need to take things up a level after playing for such a long time.  Seems a shame to be getting stressed if there is no particular goal other than improvement for improvement's sake.  It may not be your best course of action if you think about it.

 

We are all different, I know, but this is my take.  I am at best a mediocre bass player.  Yet I have been fortunate enough to play in bands with some of the finest local musicians.  I came to the conclusion that it actually doesn't matter that I haven't got a portfolio of technical chops.   If found having a good ear and a good attitude got me most of the way. 

 

So I'd say accept who you are, what you do, relax and grab the enjoyment back.  When it stops being fun it is time to stop, IMO.

[kwmlondon]

1 minute ago, Burns-bass said:

What you’re doing is making progress. So many people don’t practise anything worthwhile but endlessly play what they know.

 

Dont deny yourself opportunities but persevere, as you’re doing great stuff. 
 

I find taking time away helps hugely. I was struggling with a really tough classical passage and my teacher told me to leave it for a week and do something else. It really helped. 

I have been working on Sir Duke for 5 years. I am a bit better than I was a year ago but my old brain isn't exactly picking stuff up easily!

 

I am working on my music reading though and that's really, really frustrating. I do a bit every day but it's like knocking nailes into the wall with a banana...

[kwmlondon]

1 minute ago, Paul S said:

I lean the other way.  I'd be interested to know why you feel the need to take things up a level after playing for such a long time.  Seems a shame to be getting stressed if there is no particular goal other than improvement for improvement's sake.  It may not be your best course of action if you think about it.

 

We are all different, I know, but this is my take.  I am at best a mediocre bass player.  Yet I have been fortunate enough to play in bands with some of the finest local musicians.  I came to the conclusion that it actually doesn't matter that I haven't got a portfolio of technical chops.   If found having a good ear and a good attitude got me most of the way. 

 

So I'd say accept who you are, what you do, relax and grab the enjoyment back.  When it stops being fun it is time to stop, IMO.

Okay. Here's what happened. I'd not played in 15 years or more and in that time I'd cut my right thumb very badly. I met up with some old college buddies for a jam and I could not play the way I used to, I tried playing "properly" using alternate picking and realised how much my poor technique was holding me back. I'd avoid certain things because I could not every hope to play them, but then thought "dammit, why not learn to play properly" and I've been doing it and for the most part it's been satisfying and I can play things I'd only ever dreamed were within my ability, but .... but recently I've just felt really frustrated. I put hours and hours in every day through the pandemic and it was really good to drill scales and arpeggios. It's just recently I feel like I've hit a wall and it is bruising. 

[gjones]

6 minutes ago, kwmlondon said:

A couple of times I've actually stopped and nobody's noticed!

 

Very funny

 

[kwmlondon]

Just now, gjones said:

 

Very funny

 

fortunately I'm not very egotistical when I play or it may hurt my feelings.

[nige1968]

Is the thumb injury still causing problems? 

[kwmlondon]

Just now, nige1968 said:

Is the thumb injury still causing problems? 

No. Well. Yes. I the nerve damage means can't feel the buttons on a remote control so it's a pain choosing what to watch on the telly and it's hard playing with a pick as my thumb is numb but I get by. It's got me playing with alternate finger picking and I've really enjoyed getting into that - I'm quite good at the old ghost notes and I can play Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick at about 90% speed and I can play Hysteria at full pelt! Honestly, I never thought I'd be able to do something like that but I can... roughly. 

[chris_b]

8 minutes ago, kwmlondon said:

 .... but recently I've just felt really frustrated. I put hours and hours in every day through the pandemic and it was really good to drill scales and arpeggios. It's just recently I feel like I've hit a wall and it is bruising. 

 

I would die if I had to play scales and arpeggios over and over again. I play songs.

 

In lockdown I decided to keep my chops going by charting, learning and playing every song on every Stevie Wonder album. One instrumental defeated me but I learnt the rest. That project really improved my playing, and gave me a lot of ideas I could incorporate into other songs.

[christhammer666]

your putting to much pressure on yourself mate. just sit and noodle while watching tv for a bit rather then having to achieve a goal

[nige1968]

8 minutes ago, kwmlondon said:

No. Well. Yes. I the nerve damage means can't feel the buttons on a remote control so it's a pain choosing what to watch on the telly and it's hard playing with a pick as my thumb is numb but I get by. It's got me playing with alternate finger picking and I've really enjoyed getting into that - I'm quite good at the old ghost notes and I can play Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick at about 90% speed and I can play Hysteria at full pelt! Honestly, I never thought I'd be able to do something like that but I can... roughly. 

 

OK, so it sounds like your workarounds are working for you, though you're still at a bit of a disadvantage compared with someone who has feeling in their thumb.

 

I guess you have two things to consider. First, what's different about the pieces you're working on now? It sounds like you have more than a couple of quite tricky lines down already. Maybe see if there's some particular string crossing you need to look at or some such challenge that your other pieces don't have. Second, as nearly everyone has said, self-consciousness kills music. Can you find a way to focus on the piece, not what you're doing to it? 

[kwmlondon]

13 minutes ago, chris_b said:

 

I would die if I had to play scales and arpeggios over and over again. I play songs.

 

In lockdown I decided to keep my chops going by charting, learning and playing every song on every Stevie Wonder album. One instrumental defeated me but I learnt the rest. That project really improved my playing, and gave me a lot of ideas I could incorporate into other songs.

Totally, it's a lot more fun playing I Want You Back than drilling arpeggios but I found the arpeggios help me play the songs. Playing the tune is the reward for doing my scales!

[kwmlondon]

12 minutes ago, christhammer666 said:

your putting to much pressure on yourself mate. just sit and noodle while watching tv for a bit rather then having to achieve a goal

Well, for the most part it's like meditation for me. For a long time it's really been calming and relaxing to do my exercises but recently I've just gotten angry and that's not right. I guess I need new exercises. 

[Franticsmurf]

40 minutes ago, kwmlondon said:

But when I've played with musicians recently i've found myself turning the volume down so I don't have to listen to myself.

If I can't hear myself play, I struggle make loads of mistakes (or think I do) and tend to revert to the simple stuff. Sounds like you may be in a vicious circle. Rehearsals are where you make mistakes because you're trying stuff, hearing what works well and what doesn't. 

 

40 minutes ago, kwmlondon said:

When I say I am getting frustrated with my playing they just say how good I am

Do you respect them as musicians and do you think there is any reason why they would mislead you? Ask your band mates for constructive criticism rather than just 'that was great'.

 

42 minutes ago, kwmlondon said:

A couple of times I've actually stopped and nobody's noticed!

Maybe that's because you've already turned down and they're used to the low volume, or the overall mix is wrong (usually the geetard has the bass control on his amp too high or the keys player is venturing into forbidden areas on the keyboard). 

 

I hope the above doesn't come across as harsh - I've been where you are and I've worked with musicians who have a similar outlook. For the rehearsals with the band, go back to the bassics (pun intended 🙂) and slowly build up your part according to what the song needs. Turn up the volume so you can hear yourself. Separate your home practices into 'for the band' and 'technique/technical' and once the latter gets frustrating, stop and jam some simple blues to remind yourself why you play. 

 

I had a dep job in September and I had two weeks to learn about 30 songs. More than half I didn't actually know and during the first week I was getting so frustrated at not being able to play along to them that my confidence took a big hit. I almost backed out of the gig. But then something clicked, I dialed back the emphasis on the technical stuff and remembered that I was standing in at short notice and thereby took some pressure off myself. What I found was that in week 2, I was able to get more of the songs nailed and towards the end of the week, as my confidence grew again, I fund adding the fills and polish became easier. The gig was a success; I made some mistakes but they've asked me to dep again for them.   

 

[Burns-bass]

1 hour ago, kwmlondon said:

I have been working on Sir Duke for 5 years. I am a bit better than I was a year ago but my old brain isn't exactly picking stuff up easily!

 

I am working on my music reading though and that's really, really frustrating. I do a bit every day but it's like knocking nailes into the wall with a banana...

Reading music is just about time, and moving slowly.

 

Have you thought about lessons?

 

Even advanced players get lessons. It’s more a chance to chat to someone else.

[ricksterphil]

26 minutes ago, Franticsmurf said:

..... I dialled back the emphasis on the technical stuff and remembered that I was standing in at short notice and thereby took some pressure off myself. What I found was that in week 2, I was able to get more of the songs nailed and towards the end of the week, as my confidence grew again, I fund adding the fills and polish became easier. The gig was a success; I made some mistakes but they've asked me to dep again for them.   

 

 

I've had a similar experience for a wedding gig where I had to learn a lot of new songs in a short time. I dialled it back and made sure I knew the basics and the groove of the song. I made some mistakes but no-one noticed (I hope😂)

 

You're putting pressure on yourself needlessly, but you already know that. Maybe leave it for a week or change from fingerstyle to using a pick (or vice versa)...it might help

[kwmlondon]

1 hour ago, Franticsmurf said:

If I can't hear myself play, I struggle make loads of mistakes (or think I do) and tend to revert to the simple stuff. Sounds like you may be in a vicious circle. Rehearsals are where you make mistakes because you're trying stuff, hearing what works well and what doesn't. 

I tend to play the same things each rehearsal - trying to get the band to work.

1 hour ago, Franticsmurf said:

 

Do you respect them as musicians and do you think there is any reason why they would mislead you? Ask your band mates for constructive criticism rather than just 'that was great'.

I respect them as people and friends and definitely as song-writers, but as musicians? I'm afraid not. They've been good and let me write my own lines to their songs but I don't really get any feedback. The last rehearsal with one was really frustrating as the drummer completely loses time at points and the guitarists noodles between songs so I can't take my earplugs out. I asked him to stop but he just started again not even aware he was doing it. 

1 hour ago, Franticsmurf said:

 

Maybe that's because you've already turned down and they're used to the low volume, or the overall mix is wrong (usually the geetard has the bass control on his amp too high or the keys player is venturing into forbidden areas on the keyboard). 

I now go over and turn the bass down myself on the guitarists amp!

1 hour ago, Franticsmurf said:

 

I hope the above doesn't come across as harsh - I've been where you are and I've worked with musicians who have a similar outlook. For the rehearsals with the band, go back to the bassics (pun intended 🙂) and slowly build up your part according to what the song needs. Turn up the volume so you can hear yourself. Separate your home practices into 'for the band' and 'technique/technical' and once the latter gets frustrating, stop and jam some simple blues to remind yourself why you play. 

No, don't hold back. I'm pleased to get the feedback. If I'm competely honest I need to get out of the situations I'm in and take up a new challenge, it's just really hard when you like the people you play with and don't want to let them down.

1 hour ago, Franticsmurf said:

 

 

 

[kwmlondon]

1 hour ago, Burns-bass said:

Reading music is just about time, and moving slowly.

 

Have you thought about lessons?

 

Even advanced players get lessons. It’s more a chance to chat to someone else.

It is and there are points when I find myself playing the dots on the page and I almost feel giddy that I'm doing it. It's like witchcraft - I don't know the song but I'm playing it! Then, at other times I feel like I'm trying to read a foreign language and they blur into a mess in front of my eyes, but I do keep plugging at it - I can feel my brain gears crunching and try to learn something new. 

 

Lessons? I've flirted with them but the teacher I had a few years ago isn't available any longer and we got on really well - constructive, pushed me enough to make me work but encouraged in the right way to make me feel I was getting somewhere. It's so nice to hear that you have a nice tone isn't it?

 

I'd do it again if I found the right tutor, but I'm looking more at performance classes in an adult college at the moment. I'm doing a course at City Lit at the moment and that's been getting better and better. This week we worked on improvising with a melodic minor scale over I-IV cords!!! Scary stuff but very excting! 

[kwmlondon]

3 hours ago, chris_b said:

Good gear leaves you nowhere to hide. It puts your playing and technique under a microscope. You hear stuff that average gear covers up. That's one part of becoming a better player. 

 

You've raised your standards, what you expect from yourself, and your fingers and brain haven't caught up yet. That's not a bad situation. Some players are born at the top of their game and playing an instrument is no effort, others have to work harder to get there. It's always better that your expectations are ahead of your abilities. That's how we improve. Be impatient, but don't beat yourself up! Just look at yourself a year ago, 2 years ago, and if you are better now than you were then, you are progressing.

 

You're in a band? What do they think? You don't have to ask outright, that might be embarrassing, but check out if they are happy with your playing on particular songs.

Also, I have a thing about really transparent gear. I play a Dingwall and there is NOWHERE to hide with that and it's forcing me to be really super-accurate which I mostly enjoy. It's just literally in the last couple of weeks, maybe when I'm tired and not at my best, that I try to play and I have looked at the bass and the window and thought "so this is why guitarists throw their expensive guitars at their amps."

 

I'm in two bands. They're lovely people. They are very complementary about my playing and tone and often ask me to turn up, but they don't have any idea what I'm doing! Sometimes they listen, sometimes they get lost in their own worlds. Being fair, the drummers in each band are improving, but it's a rare treat to "click" with a drummer these days.

[knirirr]

4 hours ago, kwmlondon said:

I practise every day. I have done since I got serious about playing and getting decent on the intstrument back in 2019. I've been playing bass for over 30 years and used to have loads of confidence, but recently now I'm really trying to get good at it but I am finding that the more work I put in the more annoyed I get and over the past week I've started to get angry with myself. I'm actually turning down in rehearsals with the band now because I am losing confidence. Midlife crisis maybe? I don't know. Anyone else ever get this? Please. Need some reassurance.

 

 

I can't recall where I saw it, but I read something about how your ability to play and your taste/ability to analyze your playing improve at different rates. So, if playing skills exceed analysis skills you'll think you sound great, but if it's the other way around then anything you do will sound bad to you (I note that I'm often not happy with my own playing and wonder if this might be why).
Another thing, which was told to me by a jazz tutor, was that during or just after playing a solo the soloist may well think it was rubbish as they will compare it with the perfect solo they were imagining in their head and couldn't quite get out of the bass. But, if they listen back to the solo a few weeks later when that perfect solo has been forgotten then it will sound much better. 
Could either of those things be involved here?