G&L in trouble...?

[Russ]

G&L are great. Their electronics package is unique, versatile and powerful, the build quality is excellent (even on the Tributes) and I like the hooked headstock - it's one of the better ones out there, it's distinctive, and it's a damn sight better than the Sire headstock.  

 

I agree with those of you who have mentioned that they just don't seem to set themselves apart from other manufacturers - yes, they have great sounding instruments, but nothing that's really new. Their idea of doing something new was to reissue the older, uglier design of the L2000! And yep, the stuff about lacking name players is a big issue - the only people I can think of who were knowing for playing G&Ls were Jerry Cantrell of Alice In Chains, Cass Lewis of Skunk Anansie (who now plays Alusonics) and a few country guys whose names escape me.

 

And, these days with everyone looking for bass information on Youtube, there's not all that much to be found. I think Lobster and Nate Navarro both covered G&L relatively recently, but, apart from the occasional Youtuber, they seemingly make no effort to put their instruments in name players' hands, and they put nothing out themselves in terms of media or video. Their website is also over 20 years old and looks it.

 

If they're going to get taken over by someone else, they really need to put a lot more effort into creating visibility for their instruments. The brand has massive potential. And they could have occupied that same niche that their founder's previous company, Music Man, now occupy, if they'd just adapted to the times a bit better. 

 

EDIT: Given the popularity, and insane price tag, of Wals these days, a G&L will give you probably the closest tone to a wide-open Wal that you can get in a production instrument, especially if your taste in Wal tone is of the crunchy, Justin Chancellor variety. And a Tribute will do it too, so you can get 95% of that tone for £500... the law of diminishing returns applies, I think.  

 

 

Edited 23 hours ago by Russ

[gjones]

I received my preloved G&L L2000 today. It came with flats, which I really am not keen on, but they sounded fine.

 

I fitted it with a used set of rounds, which is my preferred type of string and it's still sounding excellent.

 

The action was a bit high but after a bit of trussrod tweaking managed to get a ridiculously low action on it and it's playing great.

Edited 23 hours ago by gjones

[Misdee]

1 hour ago, Russ said:

G&L are great. Their electronics package is unique, versatile and powerful, the build quality is excellent (even on the Tributes) and I like the hooked headstock - it's one of the better ones out there, it's distinctive, and it's a damn sight better than the Sire headstock.  

 

I agree with those of you who have mentioned that they just don't seem to set themselves apart from other manufacturers - yes, they have great sounding instruments, but nothing that's really new. Their idea of doing something new was to reissue the older, uglier design of the L2000! And yep, the stuff about lacking name players is a big issue - the only people I can think of who were knowing for playing G&Ls were Jerry Cantrell of Alice In Chains, Cass Lewis of Skunk Anansie (who now plays Alusonics) and a few country guys whose names escape me.

 

And, these days with everyone looking for bass information on Youtube, there's not all that much to be found. I think Lobster and Nate Navarro both covered G&L relatively recently, but, apart from the occasional Youtuber, they seemingly make no effort to put their instruments in name players' hands, and they put nothing out themselves in terms of media or video. Their website is also over 20 years old and looks it.

 

If they're going to get taken over by someone else, they really need to put a lot more effort into creating visibility for their instruments. The brand has massive potential. And they could have occupied that same niche that their founder's previous company, Music Man, now occupy, if they'd just adapted to the times a bit better. 

 

EDIT: Given the popularity, and insane price tag, of Wals these days, a G&L will give you probably the closest tone to a wide-open Wal that you can get in a production instrument, especially if your taste in Wal tone is of the crunchy, Justin Chancellor variety. And a Tribute will do it too, so you can get 95% of that tone for £500... the law of diminishing returns applies, I think.  

 

 

I have to say Russ, I respectfully disagree that a G&L L2000 sounds anything like a Wal. I don't want to sound pedantic, but then again this is a bass guitar forum, so I'm gonna be! I agree with you on the rest, though. G&L needed to do a better job letting the world know about their superb instruments. 

 

I hear the same proposition quite often, usually from  American bass players  who admire Justin Chancellor but can't get hold of a Wal. My theory is that someone first came up with this notion based on the fact that the G&L pickups look a bit similar to those on a Wal. The rest is wishful thinking.

 

Don't get me wrong, an L2K is a wonderful bass in its own right with a powerful and forthright tone, but sonically it's dissimilar to a Wal because of it's inherent mid scoop, both in series and parallel mode.  It's got some MusicMan DNA somewhere in those pickups and electronics that give it a bit of a cut in a narrow band of mid frequencies, whereas the Wal has a consistent midrange presence no matter how you set the controls. With or without the filter preamp engaged the Wal has got that rubbery midrange thing going that makes them so great.

 

The G&L might be able to mimic some of the Wal's top end and bass thump,but the mids are what really make the Wal sound.

Edited 22 hours ago by Misdee

[Russ]

4 hours ago, Misdee said:

I have to say Russ, I respectfully disagree that a G&L L2000 sounds anything like a Wal. I don't want to sound pedantic, but then again this is a bass guitar forum, so I'm gonna be! I agree with you on the rest, though. G&L needed to do a better job letting the world know about their superb instruments. 

 

I hear the same proposition quite often, usually from  American bass players  who admire Justin Chancellor but can't get hold of a Wal. My theory is that someone first came up with this notion based on the fact that the G&L pickups look a bit similar to those on a Wal. The rest is wishful thinking.

 

Don't get me wrong, an L2K is a wonderful bass in its own right with a powerful and forthright tone, but sonically it's dissimilar to a Wal because of it's inherent mid scoop, both in series and parallel mode.  It's got some MusicMan DNA somewhere in those pickups and electronics that give it a bit of a cut in a narrow band of mid frequencies, whereas the Wal has a consistent midrange presence no matter how you set the controls. With or without the filter preamp engaged the Wal has got that rubbery midrange thing going that makes them so great.

 

The G&L might be able to mimic some of the Wal's top end and bass thump,but the mids are what really make the Wal sound.

There's a high-mid/treble bump that you get from a G&L that's quite reminiscent (to my ears, anyway) of the Wal sound with the pick attack setting activated. It's a lower frequency than the characteristic biting MM "thwp" sound (which is at around 8kHz). That rubbery Wal tone you mention is what you get if you run the filters between about 30-60% - if you run them wide open, you get a flatter sound that a G&L can do a decent facsimile of. To me, the main drawback with a G&L with the L-series electronics is that you only have a 3-position pickup switch and not a proper blend control. 

 

I do maintain that a G&L is one of the best rock basses out there though. The M-2000/M-2500 basses had a more conventional blend and 3-band EQ setup, and they had a more MM-like sound - the treble boost was higher up the frequency range. The sound, when dialled just a little off centre, favouring the neck pickup slightly, and scooping the mids a little, was one of the biggest rock bass sounds I've ever come across. I used to own an SB-2 and it was one of the best P-style basses I've ever played. 

[BlueMoon]

One of the best things about the G&L electronics package is the ability to play in passive mode even if the battery dies. It’s crazy to me that more active bass manufacturers don’t provide this.

 

I just picked up a very cheap, candy red sparkle L-2000 from Japan. It’s an absolute in-your-face belter!

[Sean]

2 hours ago, BlueMoon said:

 

I just picked up a very cheap, candy red sparkle L-2000 from Japan. It’s an absolute in-your-face belter!

Is that one of the Fujigen Made in Japan ones?

[Mediocre Polymath]

Interesting little postscript to the general sentiments about G&L being a bit crap at marketing/artist relations. I saw awesome kiwi pop-punk band The Beths at the Roundhouse last night (they were amazing).

 

For the last seven or eight years, their singer/songwriter Liz Stokes has exclusively played a black G&L Tribute-series Fallout (I'm pretty sure it was the only electric guitar she owned). As far as I know, G&L have never mentioned her or done anything with her. 

 

On this tour though, Liz was playing something new – a coral pink quirky looking sorta fenderish thing that I don't recognise. The Fallout was relegated to a stand at the back of the stage and only used for one song (presumably in an odd tuning). Feels like an opportunity that was missed.

[Misdee]

I remember back in the 1980's when G&L had big glossy adverts in all the American guitar magazines with various prominent  musicians endorsing their wares. Larry Graham had an L2000, and Dee Murray had an L1000, if I remember correctly (it's a long time ago.) They kind of lost that marketing edge and became a respected but not-so-prominent brand. 

 

I think one problem they had, similar to pre-EB- MusicMan, is that the guitars were never as popular as the basses. In the guitar business "doing the double" is pretty essential for long term success. There's a lot more guitarists than bassists.

[Woodinblack]

17 hours ago, Russ said:

 it's distinctive, and it's a damn sight better than the Sire headstock.  

 

I'd agree, I like the headstock and anything is better than the sire one, even fender!

[Stub Mandrel]

48 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

I'd agree, I like the headstock and anything is better than the sire one, even fender!

 

It is the one thing that really puts me off... the pregnant woman profile. 

 

FWIW I like the Sire headstock.

 

All said, this thread has sparked an interest in trying out a G&L.

[neepheid]

1 minute ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

It is the one thing that really puts me off... the pregnant woman profile. 

 

FWIW I like the Sire headstock.

 

All said, this thread has sparked an interest in trying out a G&L.

 

I'll have you covered at the bash with my Wunkay.  A shottie of my Wunkay for a shottie of your Performer?

[BlueMoon]

4 hours ago, Sean said:

Is that one of the Fujigen Made in Japan ones?

Yes, indeed. I’ve not had a Korean or Indonesian-made G&L Tribute, so I can only compare this to a U.S. version. It’s very nice indeed. Aside from the tuners, which are a bit stiff, it is indistinguishable from my U.S. L-2000. It has a 4-bolt neck plate like a Fender.

[Russ]

2 hours ago, BlueMoon said:

Yes, indeed. I’ve not had a Korean or Indonesian-made G&L Tribute, so I can only compare this to a U.S. version. It’s very nice indeed. Aside from the tuners, which are a bit stiff, it is indistinguishable from my U.S. L-2000. It has a 4-bolt neck plate like a Fender.

US G&Ls use better wood (usually lighter wood too), have quartersawn necks (as opposed to flatsawn like the Tributes) and are available with a much wider range of finishes and various custom options are available. Other than that, the hardware is the same and the pickups and electronics are the same. Tonally, they're very similar. 

 

Compared to a Sterling By MM bass, a G&L Tribute is a much closer facsimile of its US-made sibling. 

[Misdee]

22 minutes ago, Russ said:

US G&Ls use better wood (usually lighter wood too), have quartersawn necks (as opposed to flatsawn like the Tributes) and are available with a much wider range of finishes and various custom options are available. Other than that, the hardware is the same and the pickups and electronics are the same. Tonally, they're very similar. 

 

Compared to a Sterling By MM bass, a G&L Tribute is a much closer facsimile of its US-made sibling. 

Quarter sawn necks are an extra-cost option on current USA G&L basses. A very worthwhile upgrade, in my opinion.

 

There's also some confusion about the hardware in so much as I read on Talkbass that the Tribute basses were no longer using the same hardware as the USA models, and indeed that the USA models were now using the imported hardware previously for the Tribute series. If that's true then G&L have been trying to keep prices down by cutting corners on costs. That's never a good strategy, and smacks of desperation. If you want to be a prestige brand, once you degrade your own product it's very hard to recover from that.

 

 

[Russ]

1 minute ago, Misdee said:

Quarter sawn necks are an extra-cost option on current USA G&L basses. A very worthwhile upgrade, in my opinion.

 

There's also some confusion about the hardware in so much as I read on Talkbass that the Tribute basses were no longer using the same hardware as the USA models, and indeed that the USA models were now using the imported hardware previously for the Tribute series. If that's true then G&L have been trying to keep prices down by cutting corners on costs. That's never a good strategy, and smacks of desperation. If you want to be a prestige brand, once you degrade your own product it's very hard to recover from that.

 

 

Are they? That's new, quartersawn used to be the default on US G&Ls. In which case, I agree with you. They're not doing themselves any favours if they're cheaping out on what are supposed to be their prestige products. 

 

I wonder if a merger with Ernie Ball could be on the cards? It'd make sense to consolidate all of Leo Fender's post-FMC instruments into one company. 

[Misdee]

10 minutes ago, Russ said:

Are they? That's new, quartersawn used to be the default on US G&Ls. In which case, I agree with you. They're not doing themselves any favours if they're cheaping out on what are supposed to be their prestige products. 

 

I wonder if a merger with Ernie Ball could be on the cards? It'd make sense to consolidate all of Leo Fender's post-FMC instruments into one company. 

That would be a dream scenario, but I expect that in the current economic climate and, let us say, governmental unpredictability in the USA I doubt that EBMM would be likely make that kind of a committment.

.

The tragedy is that G&L have got terrific products, a great heritage and so much to offer to the marketplace. Once any company gets a reputation for sub-standard quality it's a long way back to regain their reputation. As you pointed out Russ, G&L used to be a byword for build quality and solid, reliable instruments.

Edited 1 hour ago by Misdee

[Russ]

11 minutes ago, Misdee said:

That would be a dream scenario, but I expect that in the current economic climate and, let us say, governmental unpredictability in the USA I doubt that EBMM would be likely make that kind of a committment.

.

The tragedy is that G&L have got terrific products, a great heritage and so much to offer to the marketplace. Once any company gets a reputation for sub-standard quality it's a long way back to regain their reputation. As you pointed out Russ, G&L used to be a byword for build quality and solid, reliable instruments.

There's some big changes happening in the musical instrument manufacturing world right now as a result of all this tariff f**kery. You're going to be seeing a lot more US brands opening factories in other countries. Many US brands already have manufacturing in other places, but do all their distribution from the US, ie, the outsourced instruments are shipped to a US-based logistics hub for worldwide distribution) - that's going to be changing too. And yes, I have insider info on this.

[neepheid]

I still have a long term plan to spec an SB-1. I hope I'll still be able to when I'm in a position to do so.