Glastonbury 25

[Burns-bass]

This is an interesting

Just now, BigRedX said:

 

This assumes that all bands and the music they play is equal and interchangeable. Maybe that's the case if you're playing generic covers, but for everyone else it's not.

 

It doesn't bother affect me in the slightest what other bands charge (or don't) because they are not my band, and they are in no way a substitute for what we do, and therefore not seen as competition. While we do have a figure in mind when venues and promotors are asking us to play, what we ask for gig is on an individual basis, and playing in front of a new audience who may well all want to buy CDs and T-shirts afterwards can influence what we ask for.

 

This isn't about envy, it's about egalitarianism and fairness. 

 

Festivals promise artists with exposure and opportunities as an excuse for not paying them. When people refuse to work this way, the whole system collapses and a better one is created.

 

Worked for the Dallas Cheerleaders who worked together to negotiate a 400% pay rise: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2025/06/24/dallas-cowboys-cheerleaders-pay-raise/84330932007/

 

For a more academic exploration of these issues, this is a good book: https://manchesteruniversitypress.co.uk/9781526171269/.

 

 

 

 

[Burns-bass]

Double post!

 

 

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Burns-bass

[SteveXFR]

A lot of amateur, particularly originals bands wouldn't get any gigs if they didn't do some for free. 

To me, playing music is a hobby, if I get a few quid that's a bonus but I'll do it for free quite happily. 

[Burns-bass]

4 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

A lot of amateur, particularly originals bands wouldn't get any gigs if they didn't do some for free. 

To me, playing music is a hobby, if I get a few quid that's a bonus but I'll do it for free quite happily. 

That’s cool and totally understandable.

 

When you play Glasto, I hope you get paid!

[Dad3353]

54 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

I fundamentally disagree ...

 

... which is fine; you do what you think is right, and we'll do what we think is right. There's no moralising about it, as long as we agree that it's a Free World, in which we shoulder our own responsibilities. I'll not accuse other artists for getting paid; I would expect our choices to be respected in the same way. 

[Burns-bass]

Just now, Dad3353 said:

 

... which is fine; you do what you think is right, and we'll do what we think is right. There's no moralising about it, as long as we agree that it's a Free World, in which we shoulder our own responsibilities. I'll not accuse other artists for getting paid; I would expect our choices to be respected in the same way. 

Your choice to work for free sets an expectation that others will. So your action has an impact, something we can disagree on (politely and collegiately).

 

You’ve drawn a false equivalence in any case. Your choice to play for nothing at a local community event isn’t the same as someone being asked to play for free at a multi-million pound commercial festival.

 

I have done, and continue to do the former but wouldn’t do the latter - and I think musicians who do so devalue their art, talent and value. 

[SteveXFR]

I think venues know they can get ameteur bands for free or very cheap but if they want a name to get people in then they have to pay for it.

Amateur bands don't attract in a lot of people so can't really ask for much and those at the bottom of the pile who are the support act for amateur bands offer the venue very little value.

Edited 4 hours ago by SteveXFR

[SteveXFR]

The helicopters flying rich Londoners in to the festival are busy. There's one going over about every 5 - 10 minutes today.

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, Burns-bass said:

Your choice to work for free sets an expectation that others will. So your action has an impact, something we can disagree on (politely and collegiately).

 

You’ve drawn a false equivalence in any case. Your choice to play for nothing at a local community event isn’t the same as someone being asked to play for free at a multi-million pound commercial festival.

 

I have done, and continue to do the former but wouldn’t do the latter - and I think musicians who do so devalue their art, talent and value. 

 

Any expectation following on from my actions is not my responsibility, it's that of the expectee. As goes the saying : 'Blessed are those that expect nothing, for they shall never be disappointed.'
I choose to play for free, whatever the venue, commercial or otherwise.

What about the sums involved..? Getting paid a pittance, when others on the same bill are receiving thousands; is that a problem..? In this strange 'logic' of no-one being disabused, shouldn't there be some sort of equivalence, then, so that the artists get [ more | less | the same ] (choose one...) as the hot dog stand owner, or the headline act..? Why is it a problem if someone gets paid and another chooses not to..? Being asked to play for free is not the same as asking to play for free, or even turning down payment. There's no 'moral high ground' to any of it; all are able to make their own decisions, and abide by the consequences. I think no worse of those making different choices to mine; I would like to think that these notions could be reciprocated. I expect nothing in this regard, of course, and am never disappointed. 

[SteveXFR]

If you want to make money in music, then become a covers band specialising in weddings. They seem to be fairly profitable. 

[Burns-bass]

3 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Any expectation following on from my actions is not my responsibility, it's that of the expectee. As goes the saying : 'Blessed are those that expect nothing, for they shall never be disappointed.'
I choose to play for free, whatever the venue, commercial or otherwise.

What about the sums involved..? Getting paid a pittance, when others on the same bill are receiving thousands; is that a problem..? In this strange 'logic' of no-one being disabused, shouldn't there be some sort of equivalence, then, so that the artists get [ more | less | the same ] (choose one...) as the hot dog stand owner, or the headline act..? Why is it a problem if someone gets paid and another chooses not to..? Being asked to play for free is not the same as asking to play for free, or even turning down payment. There's no 'moral high ground' to any of it; all are able to make their own decisions, and abide by the consequences. I think no worse of those making different choices to mine; I would like to think that these notions could be reciprocated. I expect nothing in this regard, of course, and am never disappointed. 

 

So, to be clear, we're not talking about playing for free at a street party. I do this all the time. We're talking about commercial music festivals that generate a profit (which Glastonbury undoubtedly does.)

 

The system that exists effectively tells artists who play for free that they're worthless (by choosing not to pay them), while charging people for tickets to see them and making a profit.

 

You may be happy to support this system or shrug it off as somehow being a natural order, but I don't think we should. As well as devaluing the contribution small artists make to festivals like Glastonbury, it also constructs barriers for those who lack the means to play for free. We'll end with music being the same as the rest of the arts, populated almost entirely by middle and upper class people who are subsidised to play.

 

In my view, either nobody gets paid, or everyone does. Even if that means Coldplay, Rod Stewart or whoever else earns less money, then so be it. 

 

In my industry (writing and journalism), people are routinely asked (and some will offer) to work for free to gain experience and exposure. I've always refused to work for free and paid other people if they have done work that generates a profit for me (or the company I operate). 

 

 

 

 

 

[Supernaut]

4 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

There's always bands happy to just play whether paid or not. Those who aren't just turn it down, no one is forcing them. Personally I play for fun and don't care whether I get paid as long as it doesn't cost me too much.

I thought you retired from gigging? 

[Dad3353]

14 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

So, to be clear ...

 

We'll leave it, as we have very different thoughts on the subject. I don't agree with your inferences, and have other notions as to what, if anything, constitutes 'middle and upper class'. Carry on carrying on; onward and upward. Peace. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Dad3353

[Supernaut]

Some sell themselves short, others realise their value. 

[Magister Ludi]

1 hour ago, SteveXFR said:

The helicopters flying rich Londoners in to the festival are busy. There's one going over about every 5 - 10 minutes today.

More Correctly .... Its Helos from Bath,Manchester & Battersea 🙃

[Gank Bass]

Nothing wrong with taking the odd freebie if its going to pay dividends down the line, we once took a freebie playing for Katie price just because we wanted to see how big they are irl 🫡

[Gank Bass]

We did actually get loads of bookings that referenced seeing her on our Instagram so it can pay off if you're selective. I did struggle to get the strap over her for those wondering..

 

[tegs07]

I kind of see both sides of the pay for free argument. It’s worth noting though that Glastonbury keeps going due to the vast array of volunteers, from security, medical, cleaning, maintenance etc. Artists always used to get free entry and camping and a 40 minute set seem like far less hassle than cleaning up afterwards or herding in a couple of hundred thousand revellers.

[Dad3353]

Our annual festival (now moved on to a bigger town; it outgrew us...) had, for over ten years, one full-time salaried Director, three or four full-time 'trainees' on minimum or gov. grant salaries, a volunteer full-time committee of a couple of dozen, and, for the main event in the summer, about three hundred volunteers for setting up, running, then packing down, the long week-end. Multiple stages, many 'off' activities, street artists and 'open' stages. All the artists, security staff, sound techs and hire companies that required payment were paid; those that performed for free were treated the same as the headliners. There was never any question of 'some folk are paid, why not everyone..?', and the event paid for itself (modestly...) just about every year. Having served many years on the committee, I, and hundreds like me, have splendid memories from those days, working alongside a great team, creating a wonderful and varied event for the benefit of all. Were some of the 'ambulants' serving food commercial..? Yes. Did we pay to have generators on site..? Yes. Was it a 'pro' team that erected the main stages..? Yes. Was that an issue..? No. It was a rich mix of benevolent colleagues and paid artists, professionals and street vendors in which everyone gained. Happy daze.