Dep musicians

[Phil Starr]

@Bilbo and @casapete

 

Thanks for this. It encourages me to think that there are people out there who can do a job for us, I just need to find them. We've been through three guitarists who all turned down me sending the charts, I sent videos of our band playing the songs, spotify playlists of the originals so they could see the arrrangements we use. We stick to the originals because we want to avoid ny surprises. We've only changed key in three or four songs and that was clearly marked on the set list.It's just staggered me that anyone would promise to learn a set by a given date and not put the effort in up front to be able to deliver. Nice people completely deluded about the effort needed to deliver a 30 song set. I've not got the skills to dep at the last minute but I've learned sets to help out mates. It is a lot of work, I'll live with the songs in the car for as long as it takes, play through the songs with the chord sheets on day one picking out chord changes rhythms and  the bits I need to worry about.

 

Gigging musicians are a different breed. The trouble is most of them are already gigging

[Stub Mandrel]

It's a very unstructured situation at the 'cover band' level. I've done several deps for one band where I had two rehearsals first. Another band said 'we don't rehearse' so I went in cold.

 

One interesting gig was with a dep guiarist too. We did Come Together... I  knew the band played the the Gary Clarke jr. arrangement but the guitarist was all Beatles which came out a bit odd!

 

As for bringing in deps, drummers generally do well, guitarists you need someone who can improvise instinctively by ear if they aren't able to rehearse. When I've been depped for apparently it went well but she knew the guitarist well.

 

Usually you get a list of about 30-40 songs many of which won't be played! I might veto one or two which can reduce the learning time by 50%. Links to 'the version you play' are useful. People always tell you the starting chord not the key... 

 

Never come across anything other than getting the same share as the band, although one gig we threw in a bit extra for the dep as it wasn't a big payer. Deps aren't expected to chip in on rehearsal costs.

 

Most deps do it because they enjoy learning new material and the buzz of playing by the seat of their pants. A good amateur dep who throws themselves into the spirit of things (maybe with some improv) can be great to play with.

[casapete]

37 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

@Bilbo and @casapete

 

Thanks for this. It encourages me to think that there are people out there who can do a job for us, I just need to find them. We've been through three guitarists who all turned down me sending the charts, I sent videos of our band playing the songs, spotify playlists of the originals so they could see the arrrangements we use. We stick to the originals because we want to avoid ny surprises. We've only changed key in three or four songs and that was clearly marked on the set list.It's just staggered me that anyone would promise to learn a set by a given date and not put the effort in up front to be able to deliver. Nice people completely deluded about the effort needed to deliver a 30 song set. I've not got the skills to dep at the last minute but I've learned sets to help out mates. It is a lot of work, I'll live with the songs in the car for as long as it takes, play through the songs with the chord sheets on day one picking out chord changes rhythms and  the bits I need to worry about.

 

Gigging musicians are a different breed. The trouble is most of them are already gigging

Spot on Phil.

 

Just to add - of all the musicians I’ve worked with over the years, I think guitarists have been

the least likely to be able to read or follow charts, so those who can are a rarity. ( I speak as 

someone who isn’t an overly proficient reader myself, but can get by and also use chord charts.)

 

 

[Elfrasho]

Most of my gigs are deps these days. I wouldn't learn 30 tunes for 80 quid!

[Mudpup]

24 minutes ago, Elfrasho said:

Most of my gigs are deps these days. I wouldn't learn 30 tunes for 80 quid!

If it's standard pub songs you would  probably know 20 of them already. And I suppose the potential for further gigs with the same band comes into play as well - if it's likely a one off you would be less inclined to put too much effort in. We had 2 dep guitarists and a singer that we used regularly (they probably did about 8 gigs a year each with us) and over a few years they gradually picked up the whole set. They really became valued extended members of the band, never needed to buy a drink and came out for a free curry at Christmas. We also learned a few songs off their wish list.

Edited 10 hours ago by Mudpup

[fretmeister]

On 05/06/2025 at 10:23, Phil Starr said:

We are struggling to find a guitarist and if I'm honest it's because of our set, think Tina Turner, Pink, Blondie,Lady Gaga and so on. Most of the guitarists round here are of a certain age and want to play rock from the 70's,80's 90's and so on. This isn't primarily guitar music so not seen as rewarding.

 

Roughly 15 years ago I was in a band that did all that stuff - the guitarist we had was previously in one of the big military bands and she could sight read like nobody I've ever met before or since. Unless it was Guthrie level she'd just look at the page and it would be perfect first time, and she'd only need 2 or 3 run throughs to memorise it. She was scary!

[Stub Mandrel]

4 hours ago, Elfrasho said:

Most of my gigs are deps these days. I wouldn't learn 30 tunes for 80 quid!

 

I'd probably pay £80 for the excuse to learn a load of new songs and gig them with new people!

[chris_b]

2 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

I'd probably pay £80 for the excuse to learn a load of new songs and gig them with new people!

 

Most of the deps I do are for friends and friends of friends. On a dep gig I expect to get the same rate as the rest of the band.

 

I always treat a new set list and playing with a new band as an opportunity to learn new songs, meet with different players and get my foot in the door for more gigs. I've come across some great songs over the years. I don't have a great memory, so I always chart the songs. Just in case.

 

One annoying thing bands sometimes do, send me a set list with MP3's and videos and then play (on purpose or not) different arrangements!!

 

 

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

One annoying thing bands sometimes do, send me a set list with MP3's and videos and then play (on purpose or not) different arrangements!!

 

BTDTGTTS

[Obrienp]

I am just going to reinforce what others have said. I dep with a covers band and have done others. Initially it was a bit of a challenge because they had a set list of over 60 songs and were going to do most of them in a 3 hour gig. I had played about 20 but mostly different arrangements and keys. They didn’t have chord sheets. Thank heavens for Ultimate Guitar. I put together my own chord sheets and put them onto my iPad. They were able to give me one rehearsal beforehand, so I was able to tweak arrangements, keys, etc. I guess about 20 of the songs had iconic bass lines that had to be learnt, the others I just busked against the chords. I have been going to blues jams for years, so I am not too phased at having to busk pop, rock, blues, soul stuff. Like others I really welcome the stimulus of having to learn new material. I just expect to get paid what the rest of the band gets.

 

Addressing the original post more specifically; local jams are great places to find musicians who are used to busking stuff and don’t get phased by new material. In some ways, it is more difficult as a lead guitarist, because it means carrying the melody a lot of the time and there may be iconic solos that have to reproduced. If it’s just rhythm, I think that is pretty much the same as the position of a bassist. There are generally loads of people out there who are pretty accomplished amateur musicians, enjoy playing and would leap at the chance to learn new material. As others have said, they don’t need to be provided with scores at this level. It is going to be much more successful/easier for them if you can provide chord sheets with your arrangements. A Spotify/Amazon Music playlist with the arrangements you are following is also really helpful. Even better if you can provide a rehearsal session.

[tauzero]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

One annoying thing bands sometimes do, send me a set list with MP3's and videos and then play (on purpose or not) different arrangements!!

 

In fairness, one former band had a singer who regularly rearranged songs at random in real time. The delights of a 7-bar guitar solo in Johnny B Goode...

[Phil Starr]

2 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

I'd probably pay £80 for the excuse to learn a load of new songs and gig them with new people!

How's the lead guitar work coming on? I may have a job for you

 

[Stub Mandrel]

3 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

How's the lead guitar work coming on? I may have a job for you

 

 

It's appalling as ever so unless it's a Black Monks tribute...

[Phil Starr]

Thank you all for your contributions. I've rarely depped and only for friends. I was part of a house band for an openmic/jam session and just about coped but the idea of busking a set is just too scary for me this is definitely about findng how the other half see it. 

 

So I'll make sure I have up to date charts before I start looking and have everything else ready. We always play as per the originals apart from faded endings, key changes are few and always flagged up. We do have 40+ songs for the dep to choose from and to be honest four chords cover most of our songs so in that sense it isn't too difficult to cover most of our set. I think if we phrase any ads right we should be able to sort the enthusiast for new songs from those who are balancing the cash with the amount of work. Most of you here seem to be working for a share of the pot rather than having a fixed fee which is pretty encouraging. Not denigrating those who play for a living and have to consider the cash, let's face it few of us 'earn' the living wage from this so good luck to those few that do. We just can't afford that sort of level of expense.

 

The biggest issue left is avoiding some of the gutarists who've offered to dep in the past who just don't have the skills or experience. I've met @tauzero's seven bar guitarist rather him than the ones who stop 7/8ths through a bar

[tauzero]

2 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

The biggest issue left is avoiding some of the gutarists who've offered to dep in the past who just don't have the skills or experience. I've met @tauzero's seven bar guitarist rather him than the ones who stop 7/8ths through a bar

 

It wasn't the guitarist who cut the solo off at seven bars, it was the singer crashing in at a random point. Verses and choruses would be added, deleted, or reordered completely randomly, the three of us got very adept at switching.