The future of amps & cabs - stage props only?

[mazdah]

On 27/07/2025 at 14:36, Jack said:

 

 

Sorry that they don't work for you, but please don't try and tell those of us who are doing it that it can't be done. It's possible to create excellent stage sound using a variety of approaches. Those 'farty' frfr cabs are the same ones that do mains pa duties on thousands of stages across the world. 

 

The purpose of FRFR cabs is different. They serve GREAT duty, they provide excellent comfort and greatest monitoring, but I cannot agree that they can provide a decent sound (compared to typical amplifiers, that usually are terrible at monitoring duties and not comfortable).

 

I directly and thoroughly compared 1000W FRFR Fender ToneMaster cab paired Quad Cortex to quite cheap guitar tube amps like Marshall DSL and JetCity 50 with 412 and... well, the Cortex + ToneMaster performance was a joke. 

[YellowLedBetterBass]

18 hours ago, Jack said:

I know we've drifted a little off topic but it seems as though the soundguy in @YellowLedBetterBass's post is actually up for pretty much any other preamp? They have even offered a house Sansamp if a bassist doesn't have one of their own. Being told "any preamp you like, or I've got one here if you want" is probably more than most us get at most gigs? Can't say I understand the hatred. 

 

Although some of you are relating some other horror stories. I guess I do understand the general hatred!

Yeah he's taking his own Sansamp just in case no one else has a DI box. It's serving the same role as a "house amp" would do.

 

I'll be taking the Tonex One and a passive DI box.

 

FWIW, I am actually pretty happy I'm not having to take an amp - from memory this venue sounds pretty good and has great bass response, and last time I played there (I was on rhythm guitar at the time), my Marshall DSL40CR and chonky pedalboard were a nightmare to get up and down the 3 flights of narrow twisty stairs. Now I can just take one gig bag with my bass, IEMs, Tonex One and some cables and I'm done.

Edited 14 hours ago by YellowLedBetterBass

[mcnach]

3 hours ago, YellowLedBetterBass said:

Yeah he's taking his own Sansamp just in case no one else has a DI box. It's serving the same role as a "house amp" would do.

 

I'll be taking the Tonex One and a passive DI box.

 

FWIW, I am actually pretty happy I'm not having to take an amp - from memory this venue sounds pretty good and has great bass response, and last time I played there (I was on rhythm guitar at the time), my Marshall DSL40CR and chonky pedalboard were a nightmare to get up and down the 3 flights of narrow twisty stairs. Now I can just take one gig bag with my bass, IEMs, Tonex One and some cables and I'm done.

 

 

It sounds like a good setup.

 

I don't get the uproar earlier about the soundperson 'dictating' the sound. Nobody said the DI signal you give them has to be devoid of FX and other tone shaping options. I don't recall the last gig I played where I was NOT DI'd. I sometimes get mic'd and DI'd, but the DI is always there. I also have a pedalboard and the sound engineer gets that, no question. So... I don't get what the problem was :shrug: 

 

 

 

[Wolverinebass]

Just now, mcnach said:

 

 

It sounds like a good setup.

 

I don't get the uproar earlier about the soundperson 'dictating' the sound. Nobody said the DI signal you give them has to be devoid of FX and other tone shaping options. I don't recall the last gig I played where I was NOT DI'd. I sometimes get mic'd and DI'd, but the DI is always there. I also have a pedalboard and the sound engineer gets that, no question. So... I don't get what the problem was :shrug: 

 

 

 

The problem is when they insist on pre eq DI only. So, just dry. So, obviously any effects or distortion aren't worth including then. Or, at least in their viewpoint it seems.

 

It always fills me with dread when I see some crap, no name DI box lying on the stage with a sticker with "bass" written on it with a sharpie. You know exactly the conversation you're going to be having.

[mcnach]

27 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

The problem is when they insist on pre eq DI only. So, just dry. So, obviously any effects or distortion aren't worth including then. Or, at least in their viewpoint it seems.

 

It always fills me with dread when I see some crap, no name DI box lying on the stage with a sticker with "bass" written on it with a sharpie. You know exactly the conversation you're going to be having.

 

I think there's a misunderstanding here.

 

I've been asked for a 'pre' signal, yes, but that comes after my pedal board and everything else.

 

If I'm going through the PA, the amp onstage is really just a monitor. It makes sense to give the sound engineer a signal before the amp's controls, so that I can tweak to my heart's content: I may turn up/down slightly, I probably turn up mids and I probably turn down bass way below what I want FOH to get. But they still get my pedalboard sound.

 

The 'bass' labelled DI box is purely to be able to know which input appears where on the mixer.

 

Any other conspiracy theories? 😉

 

 

[Wolverinebass]

17 minutes ago, mcnach said:

 

I think there's a misunderstanding here.

 

I've been asked for a 'pre' signal, yes, but that comes after my pedal board and everything else.

 

If I'm going through the PA, the amp onstage is really just a monitor. It makes sense to give the sound engineer a signal before the amp's controls, so that I can tweak to my heart's content: I may turn up/down slightly, I probably turn up mids and I probably turn down bass way below what I want FOH to get. But they still get my pedalboard sound.

 

The 'bass' labelled DI box is purely to be able to know which input appears where on the mixer.

 

Any other conspiracy theories? 😉

 

 

That's all quite true of course. It just seems to be the case that the experiences I've had live are sadly not of the conspiracy theory ilk. In fact, one time a couple of years ago I was filling in on bass for a mate's band. The bloke actually said the exact words "pre eq DI only." He then refused to take the xlr of my sansamp. Then he soundchecked the whole band except me as I refused to give him a dry signal and didn't put it through the PA. My mates complained quite vociferously at that and it really wasn't great. The promoter then came out with the nugget of wisdom that "he knows what he's doing." Yeah, right.

 

In an ideal world things would work as you suggest. Alas, it just hasn't been my experience.

[SimonK]

1 hour ago, Wolverinebass said:

The bloke actually said the exact words "pre eq DI only." He then refused to take the xlr of my sansamp. Then he soundchecked the whole band except me as I refused to give him a dry signal and didn't put it through the PA. My mates complained quite vociferously at that and it really wasn't great. The promoter then came out with the nugget of wisdom that "he knows what he's doing." Yeah, right.

 

...at which point I would smile sweetly, crank my Trace Elliot stack, and tell the sound engineer(?) that the bass needed to be heard front of house and I would happily turn down when he took my post-DI signal...

[Lozz196]

I like your style

[Wolverinebass]

19 minutes ago, SimonK said:

 

...at which point I would smile sweetly, crank my Trace Elliot stack, and tell the sound engineer(?) that the bass needed to be heard front of house and I would happily turn down when he took my post-DI signal...

Which is kind of what I did as ironically I was playing through a trace amp. Everyone knows 200w is much more, don't they?

 

The only difference was I suggested he "go forth and multiply" as well as a liberal use of the "c" word. Alas, calling him a communist didn't go down well and neither did all the other insulting "c" words like cholesterol or caravan.

[Jack]

5 hours ago, Wolverinebass said:

The problem is when they insist on pre eq DI only. So, just dry. So, obviously any effects or distortion aren't worth including then. Or, at least in their viewpoint it seems.

 

It always fills me with dread when I see some crap, no name DI box lying on the stage with a sticker with "bass" written on it with a sharpie. You know exactly the conversation you're going to be having.

I had this exact thing at a scooter rally a few weeks ago. Klark Teknik on the frontline with a long cable plugged in. I just plugged it in after my board and thankfully there were no problems but I did wonder what would happen if it came to a disagreement. It can't go before my board as I'm wireless and said wireless is my tuner. It's not going between the wireless and the modeller as I use the pitch shifter. Even if I didn't I am NOT rewiring a board on stage with 5 minutes until the first song. So it's after, that's the only choice. 

[BigRedX]

I've never had this problem. However I've always turned up with my own DI boxes already in the appropriate (for me) part of the signal chain. 

 

I think most of the time the SE is relieved that they won't need to unplug one of the few DI boxes they are already using for something else that they never question what sort of signal they will be getting from me. 

 

Also because I'm playing Bass VI and producing both "guitar" and "bass" sounds if it looks like there's a possibility of being EQ'd into mush I start by giving them a "guitar" sound and once I'm happy with that I'll switch to a "bass" patch play a couple of bars and declare that it sounds great and would they like to move on to our backing track? That seems to work. Because I've already set the EQ for the different sounds I use on the Helix getting a good "guitar" sound means that I'll automatically get the "bass" sound I want.

[BassmanPaul]

@Woodinblack there is only one thing to say to you from all the way over here and that is <singing> Coates comes up from Somerset where the Cider apples grow!

 

[Jack]

2 hours ago, BigRedX said:

I've never had this problem. However I've always turned up with my own DI boxes already in the appropriate (for me) part of the signal chain. 

 

I think most of the time the SE is relieved that they won't need to unplug one of the few DI boxes they are already using for something else that they never question what sort of signal they will be getting from me. 

 

Also because I'm playing Bass VI and producing both "guitar" and "bass" sounds if it looks like there's a possibility of being EQ'd into mush I start by giving them a "guitar" sound and once I'm happy with that I'll switch to a "bass" patch play a couple of bars and declare that it sounds great and would they like to move on to our backing track? That seems to work. Because I've already set the EQ for the different sounds I use on the Helix getting a good "guitar" sound means that I'll automatically get the "bass" sound I want.

Sometimes it's just easier to go with the flow. I've definitely plugged a 1/4" patch cable between my Sansamp and a Behringer DI box before. Leaving a perfectly good (probably better) xlr on the Sansamp unused. I'll pick my battles.