How was your PA last night?

[Pirellithecat]

22 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

Was this just your in-ears? Are you using ZS10 Pros? I find these do have some pretty striking resonances and unless your in ear fit is near perfect they can sound this way. I've ended up first of all with the tripkle flange ear tips that go deep into my ear canals and ultimately with moulded ear tips and they've improved matters. There is quite a pronounced mid range suckout too, they are far from flat, see below. I'd start by trying to get a great fit but then filtering out the sub 50Hz content and boosting 100-1.5kHz to flatten out the response, or at least being aware of the response when you eq.

 

The other thing is that the audience experience of your bass looks to be pretty good and I find the live sound of my bass compared to my practice sound is really mid dominated and thin and clacky might be a good description. If you've got your bass well forward in your personal mix then you aren't hearing what the audience hear. Even if you aren't using ZS10's the mid suckout isn't rare in headphones I'd still be looking to check for a good fit and looking to boost low mids a little for bass.

 

 

 

Thanks Phil,   THe IEM's are Shure SE215's  -  I'll start a thread .... I think I've found a way to do a specific EQ for the bass plus "The Band" into IEM mix.  But could be completely wrong!!!! 

[jezzaboy]

Well Saturday night being the first time I tried using the EV 12" sub didn`t go the way I thought it would. Due to the pub being in the centre of town unloading was a real pain and I had to move the car round into the multi storey so time was a bit tight for an 8pm start.

 

I used the venues DBR 12`s along with my sub but as soon as everything was powered up, there was a loud rumble type feedback from the sub. My mic was in line about a foot away from the sub/top so it may have been coming from that but even when I turned down the sub volume the noise was still there. As I was in a rush I just turned the sub off and went full range with the speakers. The DBR`s didn`t get any feedback from my mic.

 

I am thinking that possibly I didn`t have the sub connected right as it was very low down and beside the wall. It worked ok at low volumes in my home but I should have taken it down to the studio and spent some time on setting it up correctly so a lesson learned.

 

 

 

 

[Phil Starr]

43 minutes ago, jezzaboy said:

I am thinking that possibly I didn`t have the sub connected right as it was very low down and beside the wall.

 

It's hard to say without a lot more detail but putting a sub next to a wall is going to effectively double it's output on top of the reinforcement from the floor. I think having any mic within a foot of a sub is going to create issues. The sound coming from the sub may not sound very loud but at those frequencies the mic 'hears' better than you do. All of the sound from the sub is omnidirectional The tops point most of the sound away from the mics but behind the subs is just as loud as in front.

 

Using subs isn't as easy as plug and play, be prepared to turn them right down, keep them well away from any mics and consider whether you need to use HPF. It may sound counter-intuitive to filter the bass from your subs but if sound below 50Hz is causing feedback problems and sets off room resonances it has to go. Percevere and you'll get there

[zitherman]

Used our newly.aquired 2nd hand rcf 710s for the first time.Although the venue was small and the speakers werent pushed at all initial.impressions are they seem to suit vocals and accoustic instruments a bit better than the srm 450s we used to have.Time will tell when we put some bass and kick drum through them

[Phil Starr]

1 hour ago, zitherman said:

Used our newly.aquired 2nd hand rcf 710s for the first time.Although the venue was small and the speakers werent pushed at all initial.impressions are they seem to suit vocals and accoustic instruments a bit better than the srm 450s we used to have.Time will tell when we put some bass and kick drum through them

Our duo use RCF 310's as our only PA. I've posted here about them a couple of times but it was last weekend's PA. We are pretty loud as a duo up with the levels of a few full bands. This gig was in an old converted cinema so a big barn of a place. We were pretty loud and the sound was really good, vocals especially but drums (programmed) and bass also loud and clear. The difference between the 310 and the 710's is that the 710's use a better mid/bass unit. With the 310's being so capable I don't think you will have an issue with bass and kick with your band.

 

Let us know how you get on though. It might help others if you put up a link or two that I looked at, so they can get a picture of what you are doing with your 710's

[zitherman]

Cheers Phil.im  slow with this adding links and phone technology but ill have a go.Till then a brief description of us is double bass,banjo 2x vox and a suitcase bass drum playing bluegrass,country  and songs you might not expect given the instrumentation

[Chienmortbb]

2 minutes ago, zitherman said:

Cheers Phil.im  slow with this adding links and phone technology but ill have a go.Till then a brief description of us is double bass,banjo 2x vox and a suitcase bass drum playing bluegrass,country  and songs you might not expect given the instrumentation

Hayseed Dixie Tribute?

 

[zitherman]

Haha. We did support them at a gig a few years ago.We covered a boo hewerdine song called hummingbird.Turns out their banjo player produced an album for alison brown which featured that song.We come from a different angle eg,prefab sprout,peter gabriel,blackstreet etc.cheers

[Chienmortbb]

On 03/06/2025 at 12:36, Pirellithecat said:

At the risk of "stuck-record-ness"  The sub makes so much difference to the sound - much greater than upgrading from RCF 710's to 932's!   
A personal hearing "thing" probably, but I find the tops excellent, in comparison to eg Mackie 450's ......... so much clearer ...... BUT, with a very strong female vocalist (and a dreadful sound guy -me).  I find that the RCF upper mid/treble is a tad "shrill" - which is why I upgraded in the first place.   Hopefully I can get this sorted with the CQ18T ........... 

Try the factory library settings. I have not tried the female singer one but when I sang through the CQ20 on Male Vocal setting, I sounded like a singer, surely a miracle. Of course you can tweak from the factory setting but it’s probably a good starting point. 

Edited June 23 by Chienmortbb

[Chienmortbb]

On 09/06/2025 at 22:01, Phil Starr said:

 

It's hard to say without a lot more detail but putting a sub next to a wall is going to effectively double it's output on top of the reinforcement from the floor. I think having any mic within a foot of a sub is going to create issues. The sound coming from the sub may not sound very loud but at those frequencies the mic 'hears' better than you do. All of the sound from the sub is omnidirectional The tops point most of the sound away from the mics but behind the subs is just as loud as in front.

 

Using subs isn't as easy as plug and play, be prepared to turn them right down, keep them well away from any mics and consider whether you need to use HPF. It may sound counter-intuitive to filter the bass from your subs but if sound below 50Hz is causing feedback problems and sets off room resonances it has to go. Percevere and you'll get there

It’s almost counter~intuitive but HPF is the bassists and sound tech’s friend.

[Pirellithecat]

On 23/06/2025 at 08:55, Chienmortbb said:

Try the factory library settings. I have not tried the female singer one but when I sang through the CQ20 on Male Vocal setting, I sounded like a singer, surely a miracle. Of course you can tweak from the factory setting but it’s probably a good starting point. 

Will do!   
I might bite the bullet this weekend and use the CQ18T in Anger at a gig.!    
I have access to the venue all day  (and it's not a pub so ideal for setting up and testing everything. 
I actually thought I might start with "Quick" settings across all the inputs except bass.   The only thing I'll really need to worry about then is the Female Vocal, the Drums, and the Monitor mix (/Feedback!). 
So that's a good call. Thanks 

[Chienmortbb]

It might be worth playing about with the factory presets, although maybe not at a gig. 
 

I found the make vocal setting to really add something, making ME sound like I can sing. I also quite liked my bass with the bass guitar preset with a bit of chorus. Although I have used little chorus on bass in the past, the CQ chorus sounded good. 

[Al Krow]

LA Mixtrax - Feel it Still

 

Our new RCF 932A set-up being used at a recent outdoor gig (with no sub), recorded using a Rode stereo mic on top of the camera. Both myself and guitarist using a GT1000 Core pedal as a preamp into our CQ18T desk.

[Chienmortbb]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

LA Mixtrax - Feel it Still

 

Our new RCF 932A set-up being used at a recent outdoor gig (with no sub), recorded using a Rode stereo mic on top of the camera. Both myself and guitarist using a GT1000 Core pedal as a preamp into our CQ18T desk.

The sound is great, how did you mic up the drums?

That singer is also great, bass sounded OK (great really).

[Al Krow]

Thanks!

 

Kept it simple as possible: kick drum mic plus stereo overhead mic

[stevie]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

LA Mixtrax - Feel it Still

 

Our new RCF 932A set-up being used at a recent outdoor gig (with no sub), recorded using a Rode stereo mic on top of the camera. Both myself and guitarist using a GT1000 Core pedal as a preamp into our CQ18T desk.

Impressive sound. Well done. 

[Phil Starr]

I was really impressed with this the first time I saw it and more so now I've had a follow up listen. I think this puts to bed the arguments about putting bass through PA with no back line or the use of (great) quality 12" tops without having to use subs. It clearly can be done and outdoors too. It also shows you don't have to sacrifice bass tone because that was spot on too. 

 

That's not saying that subs are inappropriate in other situations with different music, bigger arenas or for whatever reason but that this is a PA with wide applicability which would do most of the gigs the majority of us do. I wouldn't claim to sound this good but I gigged for four years with QSC K12-2's and never a problem or hiccup with bass and Kick going through the PA. We used subs twice I think in four years and only for outdoor gigs. And Al I love the band

[Al Krow]

I've pulled together four live clips all using the RCF 932As (with no sub) for one indoor and 3 outdoor gigs, recorded through a Rode stereo mic into a Sony s6300. Compared to my previous 912As (which I've held onto as a very capable back up rig) I think the 932s do let the vox shine whilst maintaining a meaty low end. Let me know if you agree?

 

 

Edited July 19 by Al Krow

[Chienmortbb]

Many of you will know that I have a decent digital mixer, reasonable speakers, passive and some active that I bought from @Phil Starrof this parish. 
 

last night I met Phil accidentally. We were both booked at a mini festival in a tiny corner of North Dorset without us knowing. 
 

Phil’s duo did a really good set and went down well. We had PA problems from the start. We could not get a decent volume on the vocal only PA without feedback. The singer/bandleader is protective of his PA. It is a Behringer powered mixer feeding two Samson speakers. I decided to move the speakers well in advance of the stage and, in moving one, It felll over bending the jack plug and sadly the jack socket. So we were running on one speaker. 
 

Phil kindly offered to loan us his RCF ART 310s but the mixer had no line level outputs. I dug into my box of goodies and my speaker to line level box was used to feed the ART310s. 
 

Not only did this improve the sound but it also cured the feedback issues. A huge thank you to Phil for going above and beyond, and for proving to our Singer that his PA is 5H1T. 
 

So two questions remain, firstly can I persuade the singer to use my gear in future and should I let Phil have his RCF ART 310s back? (only joking).

[Phil Starr]

Oh John, it would have been a comedy if it had been at an open mic. The speaker stands had been set up with the legs splayed little more than the width of the speakers and then had been placed on an uneven bit of field which ws sloping. His eq was all over the place, just at random it seemed, and he'd turned the mids right down at some point and was then complaining of no volume. Someone with a bit of sense set the eq to flat and bingo you had volume. At one point he switched the output to the monitor channel and couldn't understand why the master volume wasn't working! Total panic. Btw there are line level outs on the front of the amp but you'd ideally want to use TRS to XLR leads.

 

Anyway I'm glad we got it working and it turns out that through decent speakers your guy has a good voice. It might persuade him to let you in if you reassure him he'd sound better with someone else operating the PA. Your bass sounded great by the way. Was that the Monza?