badger Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 4 hours ago, ubit said: I guess it's a British thing isn't it. Aus/NZ call it "Tall Poppy Syndrome": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloney Balderdash Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 50 minutes ago, badger said: Aus/NZ call it "Tall Poppy Syndrome": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome "Law of Jante", here in Denmark, as also mentioned in that Wiki article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 5 hours ago, ubit said: I guess it's a British thing isn't it. We like to build people up until they become successful. The underdog all the way and all that. Then when they become successful, we like to knock them down. Flash twitt. No, my own two entries into this 'bit of fun', were based on my experience of listening to them play bass, versus their wider reputation / popularity among I suppose, the wider population and I stand by that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asingardenof Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 19 hours ago, Barking Spiders said: There's long been an anti-'intellectual' prejudice, not just the right wing press but across UK society at large, which doesn't exist across western Europe. Take opera for example. Here it's 'music for snobs' but in Italy (which I know best) it's for everyone and anyone. There there's no association between high art and social class. In France, which I've also lived in, there are living philosophers that are near household names. It most definitely is a British disease. Maybe it's similar in other anglophone countries I can't say. There you go, If I was overheard saying 'anglophone' in an English pub I'd get my head kicked in. As for 'boffins' that equates with nerd and geek in the UK and the US (or whatever the equivalent of boffins is) for that matter. Look at some English phrases e.g. 'smart Alec', 'too clever by half', these are perjoratives (now I've gone and done it). Going back to music, it's quite depressing too be reminded how Oasis and Spice Girls fever gripped the general British public back in the 90s a time when 'Jack the lad' publications like Loaded and FHM were go-to reading for males under 30. I never understood the anti-intellectual mindset. Wouldn't you want things to be done by people who know what they're doing rather than just cocky people who just wing it? It's not just a UK thing, just look at what happened during the height of Covid in the US and the widespread anti-vax movement (my libertarian-Republican FIL to this day refuses to accept that he needs a vaccine because he's not vulnerable, missing the point entirely). I think "wonk" is the US equivalent of "boffin" but I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badger Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 38 minutes ago, asingardenof said: I never understood the anti-intellectual mindset. Wouldn't you want things to be done by people who know what they're doing rather than just cocky people who just wing it? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnybass Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 To be fair, sometimes in complex music people get hung up on the 'nerd' aspect of it. "oh listen to that Coltrane solo where he alters the modality of the root chord with a subverted inflection to a half diminished interval, very reminiscent of Stravinsky" really sounds like you know what you are talking about compared to "That sax solo sounds incredible, i have no idea what he's doing but it sounds so cool over the piano". That approach alone will put people off. But thats all very Off topic. I'd say there are bass players I don't get, but in a similar way theres pizza toppings I don't like. I avoid both but sometimes I may be puzzled by their popularity, but I also know they aren't 'bad'...unless its Tuna that has no place on a pizza and no good will come of it. Jonny 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 2 minutes ago, jonnybass said: Tuna that has no place on a pizza and no good will come of it. Quite right. The only fish that is permissible on a pizza is anchovy. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asingardenof Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 17 minutes ago, ezbass said: Quite right. The only fish that is permissible on a pizza is anchovy. No fish has a place on pizza. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 27 minutes ago, asingardenof said: No fish has a place on pizza. To be honest, I’m a bit sniffy about chicken on a pizza too. I’ve only ever had one that was acceptable and that was because it was very heavily spiced and barely recognisable as chicken. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloney Balderdash Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) 3 hours ago, ezbass said: To be honest, I’m a bit sniffy about chicken on a pizza too. I’ve only ever had one that was acceptable and that was because it was very heavily spiced and barely recognisable as chicken. Pizza with chicken, mushrooms and green and red pepper fruit, eventual with chili (the kind that is chili flakes and seeds in oil) as well (and of course including the basic tomato sauce and cheese as well), is my go to pizza, and absolutely delicious. Edited April 5 by Baloney Balderdash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo85 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Lord, forgive them; they don't know what they're doing. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 The great thing about democracy is if you can find enough people to believe you are right, then you are right. The popular opinion is always correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 2 hours ago, jonnybass said: oh listen to that Coltrane solo As an object lesson in taking something simple and making far more complex while also elevating it to a whole new level: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloney Balderdash Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) 37 minutes ago, TimR said: The great thing about democracy is if you can find enough people to believe you are right, then you are right. The popular opinion is always correct. From different, strictly logical, perspective popularity will always be a strictly quantitative parameter/statement, and can never be a qualitative parameter/statement. Edited April 5 by Baloney Balderdash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 8 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said: From different, strictly logical, perspective popularity will always be a strictly a quantitative parameter/statement, and can never be a qualitatively parameter/statement. Doesn't matter. Popular is right. If you have a qualitative statement you want people to agree to you need weight of opinion to agree it. That's why education is so important. If the uneducated outnumber the uneducated you have a serious issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloney Balderdash Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 15 minutes ago, TimR said: Doesn't matter. Popular is right. If you have a qualitative statement you want people to agree to you need weight of opinion to agree it. That's why education is so important. If the uneducated outnumber the uneducated you have a serious issue. I suppose you got a fair point there, at least as the system works now, just look at the US. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badger Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 2 hours ago, TimR said: If you have a qualitative statement you want people to agree to you need weight of opinion to agree it. That's why education is so important. If the uneducated outnumber the uneducated you have a serious issue. half the people will always be below-averagely educated though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloney Balderdash Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) 3 hours ago, badger said: half the people will always be below-averagely educated though. Why so? Edit!!!: Yeah, right, got it, technically, if average would be around 50%, but that means absolutely nothing in reality in regards of the issue discusses. Edited April 5 by Baloney Balderdash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 7 minutes ago, badger said: half the people will always be below-averagely educated though. Depends on whether you're using mean, median, or mode, or whether you say that anybody who understands mean, median, and mode is averagely educated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostwheel Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 4 hours ago, asingardenof said: No fish has a place on pizza. What's about salmon? In my humble opinion, it tastes quite good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asingardenof Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Just now, ghostwheel said: What's about salmon? In my humble opinion, it tastes quite good. I do very much enjoy salmon. Just not on pizza. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Browning Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 On 04/04/2024 at 12:28, silverfoxnik said: Not sure I get that reference, Steve.. 🤔 There's been a lot of mention in this thread about how a bass players primary role is to 'play (or support) the song' , which is an assertion I pretty much agree with. But equally, as a listening, creative musician, you also have to 'play the band' as well... Only my opinion of course, but I think Entwistle's style and approach to bass playing and creating bass lines, played the band context he was in perfectly. His playing next to Keith Moon's, created something different, something that set The Who apart from other bands.. Not dissimilar to JPJ and John Bonham in Led Zep, for example. In both cases, those two rhythm sections had a unique approach that elevated the band's music beyond the norm, and beyond others - hence why we still talk about them today. Doesn’t mean we all have to like it, but I personally respect that level of creativity and ambition. On a similar note, I'm a huge fan of James Jamerson's playing. And his approach was something different as well - for example, the bass line on 'What's Going On' is a masterclass to me... But I think it's fair to say that what he played on that song isn't what 99% of other bass players would have played on that it.. Yet, it's (quite rightly) celebrated as a work of bass playing genius... Just my 2p worth of course. And there are loads of renowned bass players who 'I don't get', or like, or care for. But what I would say is that there's always something you can learn from those people that helps improve your own playing, or musical creativity, even just a little ... Hi Nik. I just find his playing way more than is needed, and it leaves me a bit cold. It's all horses for courses, naturally enough. I don't profess to be the arbiter in any such discussion (none of us holds that distinction). I'm not much of a fan of any player that feels the need to draw attention to themselves, be they a YouTuber or virtuoso. Neither of them do stuff that I enjoy. I can't do much of what they do, but then I don't want to. I appreciate technique, don't get me wrong. It just doesn't float my boat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 2 hours ago, badger said: half the people will always be below-averagely educated though. That doesn't matter. As long as 80% of people can understand the basics. It's when they can't understand the basics and then question them you have trouble. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SumOne Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) I think there's a lot of over-thinking going on here! People generally don't mind hearing impressive singers, or flashy guitar solos and piano parts. Some people (most people it seems) just prefer basslines that are a solid and perhaps catchy backbone to the music, the popularity of simple basslines in pop, rock, funk, reggae, country, hip hop etc. it isn't because people are idiots who don't like good musicians or clever people - it's that the majority of people just don't enjoy the sound of complex/busy basslines, they aren't good to dance to or relaxing to hear, that stuff is better suited to instruments like guitars. Edited April 6 by SumOne 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 9 minutes ago, Steve Browning said: Hi Nik. I just find his playing way more than is needed, and it leaves me a bit cold. It's all horses for courses, naturally enough. I don't profess to be the arbiter in any such discussion (none of us holds that distinction). I'm not much of a fan of any player that feels the need to draw attention to themselves, be they a YouTuber or virtuoso. Neither of them do stuff that I enjoy. I can't do much of what they do, but then I don't want to. I appreciate technique, don't get me wrong. It just doesn't float my boat. YouTube is all about bringing attention to yourself. You won't get millions of people subscribing to a chanel where players are just playing roots or doing stuff anyone can do at home themselves. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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