I Wonder Why We Weren't Asked Back ?

[theplumber]

2 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

Had this issue with the Punk band. Punk isn't everyone's "cup of tea" but every gig i've played with the band has gone down really well and we alsways get dancers having fun. 

In one gig where it was a busy venue with people dancing almost every song we were never asked back and when we approached the venue they were evasive so we just stopped approaching them. It used to be my local bar when i was in my 20's so i know it well. What i found was that they didn't want to pay a full band fee when they can get a singer/guitarist in with backing tracks for half of what they pay a band.

For me that is quite annoying as that particular bar had a long history of having live bands. Obviously owners want more profit from the night.

One of my mates 5 piece band was offered £150 if they played two 1 hr sets. We were getting £300 so i'm assuming the solo player is getting same as a band.

Mates band refused the gig and it was still his local bar.

Dave

The trouble with this bar is trying to track the owners down to be rebooked! When I was with Emergency Exit it was the very same! When I got the original booking it was a nightmare! I phoned several times and finally had to go to the venue and speak with the owner who told me her husband delt with the bands and she had no interest! Anyway we got booked 2 or 3 times then Covid came! The band I am in now did the gig last summer just before I joined! As usual on the night the owner praised them and said phone me during the week I don't have my diary. They could not get hold of him and gave up! I came onboard and tried on Facebook and phone to contact them. Managed to get the barmaid to give me both the owners mobile numbers...which just rung out! I gave up. Recently messaged them on Facebook and was told that the book wasn't open for next year and they will be in touch! Not heard anything yet! They still have live bands. As for the money...If you ask £300 and get it that's fine. If someone else comes in and say's £250....guess what!! A solo performer will get between £150 and £200 for a night so now that things are very tight that's a saving for the pub and in some pubs that's what they want! I play more or less every week. The band has 50 gigs this year but we have had to chase every single one and every follow up gig. One of the venues we play we go down great. Just got rebooked for next year and given 3 bookings same money as this year. Solo guitar player is in as well and has 4 booking to do...before the end of this year! Yes it's a bummer and it's not always good enough just to be a great band,good price and floor filler! Did a cracking gig in Stirling with Emergency Exit punk covers!. Won't mention the pub (Think Sherlock Holmes lol)Before lockdown. The place was packed and everyone enjoyed it! Local folk,tourists and the usual punk fans! We contacted the pub during the week to get another booking or bookings only to be fobbed off. I managed to speak to the manager only to be told that the person that booked us did not work there anymore. No one seemed to know who we were and what we did. Also she had never seen us so would we send some clips of the band.....I gave up!

[Lozz196]

Sometimes managers/owners/promoters just take a dislike to bands, it`s happened with bands I was in in the past, looking back most were warranted imo but in one case it wasn`t, no reason for it at all but we just couldn`t get repeat bookings despite filling the place.

[dmccombe7]

Yep i'm always aware of the punk stigma from its heyday when audiences were a bit raucous and causing more of a disturbance but these days its anything but. Yes punks love to dance a lot but that creates atmosphere at a gig. Sometimes its difficult when you say you're a punk covers band the venue automatically thinks "trouble".

If anything i've found the punk audiences are genuine fans of the music and are great fun to play for. And like you @theplumber i'm from a prog background and in no way a punk. 

Dave

[BillyBass]

11 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Yep i'm always aware of the punk stigma from its heyday when audiences were a bit raucous and causing more of a disturbance but these days its anything but. Yes punks love to dance a lot but that creates atmosphere at a gig. Sometimes its difficult when you say you're a punk covers band the venue automatically thinks "trouble".

If anything i've found the punk audiences are genuine fans of the music and are great fun to play for. And like you @theplumber i'm from a prog background and in no way a punk. 

Dave

One comment we had from a Landlord who wasn't keen on us performing at his pub was: "Punk doesn't work well on a Friday night"

[dmccombe7]

8 minutes ago, BillyBass said:

One comment we had from a Landlord who wasn't keen on us performing at his pub was: "Punk doesn't work well on a Friday night"

One of the main rock venues in our area which i play with both bands also told us that punk bands dont go down so well on a Sat night in the venue and we were usually on a Fri night with punk band and Sat night with Glam band. I don't think punk was pulling in as much of an audience so a Fri night suited it better but he did say things tend to change thru time and we are now doing Sat nights with punk band too. This guy really knows his audience to be fair and puts bands on that he knows will pull a decent crowd. Its a 80/20 ticket split so everyone's a winner the more crowd you get in the more he makes at the bar too.

Dave

[Bluewine]

19 hours ago, Franticsmurf said:

 It turned out that for whatever reason, the singer was upsetting the venue owners with his pre and post gig attitude.

 

  

 

My rule is as soon as you arrive at a gig you put on a smile and act appreciative and gracious to everyone you make contact with. That means the patrons, staff and management. Remember they're paying you.

 

Everyone in the band should do this.

 

Blue

[Bluewine]

1 hour ago, dmccombe7 said:

Yep i'm always aware of the punk stigma from its heyday when audiences were a bit raucous and causing more of a disturbance but these days its anything but. Yes punks love to dance a lot but that creates atmosphere at a gig. Sometimes its difficult when you say you're a punk covers band the venue automatically thinks "trouble".

If anything i've found the punk audiences are genuine fans of the music and are great fun to play for. And like you @theplumber i'm from a prog background and in no way a punk. 

Dave

 

There's also a stigma attached to blues bands. We're known as Maple Road Blues Band. Thing is we're not a dedicated blues band. We have our own spin on rock classics, Americana and folk.

 

Blues bands are never going to play on the big fair / festival stages with premium sound & lights with a night time slot.

 

Blue

[Bluewine]

1 hour ago, Lozz196 said:

Sometimes managers/owners/promoters just take a dislike to bands, it`s happened with bands I was in in the past, looking back most were warranted imo but in one case it wasn`t, no reason for it at all but we just couldn`t get repeat bookings despite filling the place.

 

 

Lozz, we had a steady gig at a really nice historic room for our acoustic offering. New management came in and after a gig and time to " settle up" we get the old " we'll mail you the check". They didn't mail the check.  Jim had to go back to the venue to collect our pay.

 

I don't know what words were exchanged but they stopped returning our calls and responding to e mail.

 

Daryl

 

[Bluewine]

18 hours ago, TimR said:

 

He spent the entire night upstairs, the audience loved us, dancing and at the end had lots said we were better than the other bands he'd been putting on. He came down to pay us and said he wouldn't be rebooking us . 

 

I think some of these folks that book bands have a total disconnect from music and the arts in general. 

 

Blue

[Bluewine]

19 hours ago, martin8708 said:

 

If we played Ska or Dad rock , we would have loads more gigs , but we enjoy being on the fringe of popular music , so we just play where we are welcome , even if they are low paid or freebies . 

 

I get it and agree with the sentiment,  however we can't travel, provide quality sound and lighting and a 3 hour show, load in and tear down for low pay or free. I doubt any band can.

 

Blue

Edited October 11, 2023 by Bluewine

[dmccombe7]

1 hour ago, Bluewine said:

 

There's also a stigma attached to blues bands. We're known as Maple Road Blues Band. Thing is we're not a dedicated blues band. We have our own spin on rock classics, Americana and folk.

 

Blues bands are never going to play on the big fair / festival stages with premium sound & lights with a night time slot.

 

Blue

Would you not be better dropping the blues band part and just go with Maple Road which sounds great to me.

Dave

[White Cloud]

8 hours ago, nige1968 said:

He's not normally an onanist (in public anyway) 

I salute you sir, that's the word (and insult) of the day in my book 🤣

[Bluewine]

13 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Would you not be better dropping the blues band part and just go with Maple Road which sounds great to me.

Dave

 I think so Dave.

 

And I don't think dropping " Blues Band" would hurt us or cause any confusion .

 

Most people call us Maple Road anyway. 

 

Daryl

[BassAdder60]

Good thread ..

We don’t play big venues so mostly pubs / clubs and I do the band bookings 

 

My discovery is the venues are really not music venues as such and run by folk who are not the best judge of who comes through the door to play.

We actually packed out to the rafters a venue last year in Bury St Ed’s and expected a few comments of praise as it was a great gig.

 

When asking them a few weeks later to book us later in the year or next year they didn’t even respond !!

Total bell ends !! 
 

For that reason we dismiss them off our target list and find more appreciative venues who are keen to book you and repeat book you !

 

 

[dmccombe7]

2 hours ago, Bluewine said:

 I think so Dave.

 

And I don't think dropping " Blues Band" would hurt us or cause any confusion .

 

Most people call us Maple Road anyway. 

 

Daryl

Rolls of the tongue a lot easier plus it can cover many styles. The minute you say Blues in your name you are tagged as another John Mayall covers band. Limits your choice of venues.

I def like it simple with Maple Road. It has that country / blues feel about it.

Dave

[theplumber]

6 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

Yep i'm always aware of the punk stigma from its heyday when audiences were a bit raucous and causing more of a disturbance but these days its anything but. Yes punks love to dance a lot but that creates atmosphere at a gig. Sometimes its difficult when you say you're a punk covers band the venue automatically thinks "trouble".

If anything i've found the punk audiences are genuine fans of the music and are great fun to play for. And like you @theplumber i'm from a prog background and in no way a punk. 

Dave

Yes it's that punk tag that puts folk off. In all fairness the music was the chart hits of punk and it all sounded like great pop music anyway! 

[dmccombe7]

2 minutes ago, theplumber said:

Yes it's that punk tag that puts folk off. In all fairness the music was the chart hits of punk and it all sounded like great pop music anyway! 

100% all chart hits that people of a certain age will remember. Mostly played on Radio 1 back in the day.

Dave

[Bluewine]

32 minutes ago, BassAdder60 said:

Good thread ..

We don’t play big venues so mostly pubs / clubs and I do the band bookings 

 

My discovery is the venues are really not music venues as such and run by folk who are not the best judge of who comes through the door to play.

We actually packed out to the rafters a venue last year in Bury St Ed’s and expected a few comments of praise as it was a great gig.

 

When asking them a few weeks later to book us later in the year or next year they didn’t even respond !!

Total bell ends !! 
 

For that reason we dismiss them off our target list and find more appreciative venues who are keen to book you and repeat book you !

 

 

 

 

Agreed and one the  reasons we play very few bar gigs. However,  I remember we played a very upscale new Winery a few years ago. When we arrived the manager greeted us, told us where to set up, let us know all drinks were comped and to make sure we all

got an entree.

 

Beautiful grounds, nice stage a large engaged crowd. These folks thought nothing of dropping 20 dollar bills in the tip jar 

 

We were all grateful and we set up and

tore down in a clean timely manner. None of us abused their comped drink policy.

 

We were never asked back. Go figure.

 

Blue

 

 

[Bluewine]

48 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Rolls of the tongue a lot easier plus it can cover many styles. The minute you say Blues in your name you are tagged as another John Mayall covers band. Limits your choice of venues.

I def like it simple with Maple Road. It has that country / blues feel about it.

Dave

 

Agreed and I wish it was my call. I've been in the band since 2009 but have no decision making power.

 

Daryl

[Silvia Bluejay]

Assuming the first gig was a cracker and we see no reason why the booker wouldn't chase us with their diary open, we suspect the following.

 

- We're judged to be great but too expensive and the booker/manager doesn't want to say

- The repertoire is too niche and the booker/manager is aware that their regulars are fickle, so next time there won't be any novelty value and far fewer punters.

- Another similar band is offering their services for less money (even if the booker/manager can afford us - they are going for the lowest price, not the best band)

- Power struggle within a club's commitee

 

Preposterous reasons we've been given:

- We were NOT deafeningly loud on the night, unlike the DJ we shared with. (We wouldn't have wanted to go back there anyway, due to the noise levels!)

- Booker/manager decided before even hearing us once that our genre would not go down well at his venue. (We finally persuaded him to try us and guess what, it went down a storm and we're getting re-booked!)

 

@Happy Jack may add to the list if I've forgotten something.

 

 

[Happy Jack]

By far the most common reason we're given is

[TimR]

Never underestimate the power of chat.

 

If you turn up and say you're the band where do you want us and then practically ignore the landlord you just won't be on their radar. You'll just be the band they booked last week.

 

Some people just have the gift of talking to people and making them their friend. 

 

Arrive, introduce yourself by name, find out their name. Ask how business is, strike up a conversation. Literally get to know them and make them your friend. Then talk to them in the break and then again after you've played. 

 

My local landlady seems to only book the acts she can relate to on a personal level, it's certainly not due to their musicianship, and when the artist turns up they spend a long time chatting to her before they start playing. Artists who don't do the chat don't seem to get booked again.

 

And that's pretty how 80% of any jobs go, when everyones CV is the same, you get the job in the interview because you get along on that personal level. 

[theplumber]

My current band play classic rock. We try and do things a wee bit different ie no Free,AC/DC,Bad Company....nothing wrong with those bands we just don't do them. Plenty of others do. I got the band a booking in a nearby town and the venue seemed to have bands doing the Mod/Ska thing. I explained we do ELO,McCartney,ManfredManns Earth Band,Supertramp ,Genesis as well as the usual Killers,Kings Of Leon,Bon Jovi,Fleetwood Mac etc. Good tight band with keyboards and harmonies. We did 2 gigs and went down well. In fact the booker was there on a night off and loved it! A couple more bookings got added and about a fortnight before we were due back I received a message to say that he had lost a diary and then found it again and discovered that he had double booked us! These things happen but I should have asked him to look at the flyer on the wall with all the events over the next 3 months marked clearly...and we were on it! Anyway the usual guff was given....I will sort you out with another booking! When I asked? Errm...Will have to check my diary..I will be in touch! Anyway months pass and the same thing happens! With a similar story. This time I e mail him back and thanked him kindly for booking us in his pub. We really enjoyed it but please don't book us again!! The bands they he did put on did...mod and ska! Ok I get that but why book us in the first place then blow us out twice when another band comes along!! 

[martin8708]

19 minutes ago, theplumber said:

I got the band a booking in a nearby town and the venue seemed to have bands doing the Mod/Ska thing.
 

The bands they he did put on did...mod and ska! Ok I get that but why book us in the first place then blow us out twice when another band comes along!! 

Ska bands definitely seem to be the landlords favourite genre, maybe there’s something about Madness and working in a Pub .

A lot of well established bands have venues all sewn up , so even if we do a sudden cancellation gig , there’s no room in the diary for any further bookings .

[TimR]

28 minutes ago, theplumber said:

The bands they he did put on did...mod and ska! Ok I get that but why book us in the first place then blow us out twice when another band comes along!! 

 

He's probably a mod and Ska fan, or his locals are.

 

We also have an issue that the Locals seem to run the local pub. I go in, and I'll talk to the locals but they're not people I'd spend time with otherwise. The problem is they bring a lot of money in but they also make the place seem unfriendly for others. Just makes the place like a private members club.