Scam or safe to buy on Bass Chat?

[neepheid]

24 minutes ago, theplumber said:

Trusted member on here......

 

Do they have a feedback thread?

[daveybass]

19 minutes ago, theplumber said:

Trusted member on here......

True, but could have had their account hacked (there has been an example this year)

[theplumber]

4 minutes ago, Paolo85 said:

My thinking would be that if somebody was able to change the bank details manually typed and doublechecked by the OP and his wife in their heavily encrypted banking apps/websites, that would mean

-that they have the OP wife's phone or computer hacked, or the bank hacked

-that they are very skilled, so they would probably try to sell a Fodera, not something that has been reduced to £95

 

 

 

The only thing they would tell us the next day was that there was no sign of our account being hacked at all. 

[theplumber]

4 minutes ago, daveybass said:

True, but could have had their account hacked (there has been an example this year)

Yes...I had conversations with the seller on here and as far as I know are still there for any mods on here if they want to check. It all seems ok to me as far as the conversation before,during and after the event and indeed the seller messaged me to say he had sold the item as I did say if he gets a sale before I got back from holiday. I did ask him to contact his bank to make sure everything was ok his end but as I mentioned earlier I was out of pocket and he still had the item! It has to be said...could someone have hacked private messages on here and find out the bank details he sent me in private? And again as folk have already said how does that happen when me and the wife sent the payment to the right person and seen the payment sent off so to speak only for it to arrive in some strangers bank. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by theplumber

[Beedster]

42 minutes ago, theplumber said:

Trusted member on here......

IIRC a trusted member on here had their account hacked a few weeks back, I wasn't suggesting a trusted member had gone rogue. 

[Beedster]

13 minutes ago, theplumber said:

And again as folk have already said how does that happen when me and the wife sent the payment to the right person and seen the payment sent off so to speak only for it to arrive in some strangers bank. 

 

If that is what happened, you should 100% be going to the media with it, as it suggests that one of the banks, or I'd guess someone working at one of the banks, has placed a divert on either your's or the seller's account and that the bank are hiding the fact (and I assume had you not checked the transfer - which could be the case with many payments - you'd never have known you'd lost money)?

 

But given how easy all these things are to trace, I can't believe that's what's happened?   

[BassTractor]

On 18/09/2023 at 16:29, theplumber said:

Yes...as far as I understand the APP thing...it's not that! 

Indeed not APP.
I dare bet that it's the banks' softwares showing one of their glitches, like taking the recipient from the previous or next transaction in certain cases.

Out there, people are still repairing vintage software that was originally written leakily in COBOL and the like. One tiny "> 1000" instead of the needed ">= 1000" and the software works the whole time except when it's actually 1000.
(This example isn't even made up. We had a system halt coz it didn't know what to do when we rented out exactly 1,000 houses at the MoD. Beginners mistake.)

Edited November 8, 2023 by BassTractor

[rwillett]

37 minutes ago, BassTractor said:

Out there, people are still repairing vintage software that was originally written leakily in COBOL and the like. One tiny "> 1000" instead of the needed "= > 1000" and the software works the whole time except when it's actually 1000.
(This example isn't even made up. We had a system halt coz it didn't know what to do when we rented out exactly 1,000 houses at the MoD. Beginners mistake.)

Errr, it’s not just a beginners mistake …. 😉

[theplumber]

1 hour ago, Beedster said:

 

If that is what happened, you should 100% be going to the media with it, as it suggests that one of the banks, or I'd guess someone working at one of the banks, has placed a divert on either your's or the seller's account and that the bank are hiding the fact (and I assume had you not checked the transfer - which could be the case with many payments - you'd never have known you'd lost money)?

 

But given how easy all these things are to trace, I can't believe that's what's happened?   

Its lucky we did check. This was the Thursday night and we were off to Spain later on the Friday night. It could have been a nightmare trying to report it and then having the card stopped.

[BassTractor]

38 minutes ago, rwillett said:

Errr, it’s not just a beginners mistake …. 😉

LOL.
Yeah, I deleted a sentence about who made the mistake (experienced folks).

[FinnDave]

3 hours ago, theplumber said:

Do banks make mistakes?....lol

You've obviously never played Monopoly or you'd have seen the card 'bank error in your favour'

[FinnDave]

3 hours ago, theplumber said:

Do banks make mistakes?....lol

You've obviously never played Monopoly or you'd have seen the card 'bank error in your favour'

[Dad3353]

19 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

You've obviously never played Monopoly or you'd have seen the card 'bank error in your favour'

 

He rolled a double, so gets another go..! 

 

...

 

 

[Beedster]

I’m confused 🤔

[TimR]

You've been caught in an authorised payment push scam.

 

The bank have told you this and refunded your money.

 

That's the end of the story. 

 

They are not going to explain how it works, or who did it. Even alleged criminals have protection until proved guilty. Plus the bank could be potentially giving away their security processes.

 

Frustrating but that's the way it works. 

[Beedster]

9 hours ago, TimR said:

You've been caught in an authorised payment push scam.

 

The bank have told you this and refunded your money.

 

That's the end of the story. 

 

They are not going to explain how it works, or who did it. Even alleged criminals have protection until proved guilty. Plus the bank could be potentially giving away their security processes.

 

Frustrating but that's the way it works. 

 

So how does that work then @TimR, is the scam on the bank side or on the seller side? I checked out APP yesterday - largely because I'm about to transfer a not insignificant amount of cash - and it didn't seem to align with the OP's account, but I may have missed something? 

[rwillett]

I looked at this on Google as well and can see how the Authorised Payment Push Scam works.  This doesn’t seem to be that, the APP appears to be based on you actually authorising a move to another bank account of a large (or any) amount of money but are given false information as to where it’s going and why.  Either a dodgy seller and I’m not impugning anybody here at all or somebody pretending to be the bank and ‘alerting’ you to potential fraud and you must move your money now or lose it. 

 

This was a fairly clear explanation. 
 

https://www.psr.org.uk/our-work/app-scams/

Just read the thread again so I’m not going to get caught out but I’m sure I’ve missed something important here so what is it please? I know the banks admit to nothing but I can’t work out how this is an APP Scam. Simple words welcomed. 
 

thanks

 

rob

 

[Beedster]

16 minutes ago, rwillett said:

I looked at this on Google as well and can see how the Authorised Payment Push Scam works.  This doesn’t seem to be that, the APP appears to be based on you actually authorising a move to another bank account of a large (or any) amount of money but are given false information as to where it’s going and why.  Either a dodgy seller and I’m not impugning anybody here at all or somebody pretending to be the bank and ‘alerting’ you to potential fraud and you must move your money now or lose it. 

 

This was a fairly clear explanation. 
 

https://www.psr.org.uk/our-work/app-scams/

Just read the thread again so I’m not going to get caught out but I’m sure I’ve missed something important here so what is it please? I know the banks admit to nothing but I can’t work out how this is an APP Scam. Simple words welcomed. 
 

thanks

 

rob

 

That’s how I see it, a few folks above appear to know what’s going on but are being a little opaque, could someone just explain in simple language what has happened? 
 

My spidey senses were pricked by the ‘sellers’ inability to take PayPal which of course would have facilitated an easy refund. But who knows…..

[SurroundedByManatees]

3 minutes ago, Beedster said:

My spidey senses were pricked by the ‘sellers’ inability to take PayPal which of course would have facilitated an easy refund. But who knows…..

 

That might be the exact problem from a seller's side. Per example; when a tracking doesn't update, you don't get your money until a period of 90(?) days without dispute runs out. Buyer protection is great, but as a seller you're vulnerable.

[rwillett]

11 minutes ago, Beedster said:

That’s how I see it, a few folks above appear to know what’s going on but are being a little opaque, could someone just explain in simple language what has happened? 
 

My spidey senses were pricked by the ‘sellers’ inability to take PayPal which of course would have facilitated an easy refund. But who knows…..

I have a tiny side business that sells Astrophotography gear. We take PayPal, indeed for international orders that’s all we take. We don’t allow the NoCheques with PayPal but so far so good. However we’ve never had a customer complain about our goods. I know PayPal take a cut but it’s worth it to us. Ask me again when PayPal pink torpedos this up or a customer complains 😳

 

Still interested in the response here. However if there are issues , they should not be played out in public here. This is not the right forum for this. 
 

rob

[JoeEvans]

I don't see any way for the seller to have orchestrated what happened with your banking. My best guess is that they're innocent and that your bank has a problem that they are highly unlikely to admit to. But without screenshots of the process you can't prove it either, so you might just have to accept the refund and move on.

[Paolo85]

29 minutes ago, Beedster said:

That’s how I see it, a few folks above appear to know what’s going on but are being a little opaque, could someone just explain in simple language what has happened? 
 

My spidey senses were pricked by the ‘sellers’ inability to take PayPal which of course would have facilitated an easy refund. But who knows…..

 

Right, I have been thinking this through and I thought it was worth writing a summary, with a question for the OP

 

-The seller gave their bank details to the @theplumber

-The wife of the OP typed the bank details for the payment

-Both the OP and his wife doublechecked the bank details

-The bank details typed were matching those provided by the seller, this was confirmed ex-post

-they made the payment

-the money went to to a different bank account. Now, the question for @theplumber. When you say that the money went to a different bank account, you mean different sort code and account number (as was my initial understanding), or just different name and address from that provided by the seller? If the former, that's not an APP, just because it does not match the definition, and it's hard to imagine how the seller has any responsability. If the latter that's definitely a scam, a pretty straightforward one, and it should be looked into it closely by the mods I believe

 

[BassTractor]

2 hours ago, Beedster said:

 

So how does that work then @TimR, is the scam on the bank side or on the seller side? I checked out APP yesterday - largely because I'm about to transfer a not insignificant amount of cash - and it didn't seem to align with the OP's account, but I may have missed something? 

You haven't missed a thing. What @theplumber described is either a very advanced form of APP (highly unlikely) or simply not APP (very likely).
I reckon @TimR either is wrong or didn't mean to claim it was APP, wording the situation slightly unprecisely (mishap -> bank says APP -> bank pays -> solved). 

As I said above, it has all the signs of a glitch in the banking software, and I reckon that that is the most likely explanation by far (saying this as someone who wrote bits of such software, and who studied IT a few years but sadly without finishing the studies).
 

Edited September 19, 2023 by BassTractor

[TimR]

17 hours ago, theplumber said:

morning.We have been told at no time was our account hacked but that's all they can say at the moment. It was referred to as a authorised push payment scam

 

The bank has said it is an APP. They're not going to go into detail into how it was done. 

 

We don't need to know how it was done, they will refuse to say how it is done as that could give potential fraudsters ideas how to get around their systems.

 

[JoeEvans]

I suspect that the bank either simply don't believe the bit about the transfer going to a different account to the one entered, it know full well what caused it and have no intention of admitting to a system fault.