2x10 vs 2x12 and overloading a cab

[shybaldbuddhist]

I've recently purchased a TC Electronic BH550 and I'm running it through a BC210 cab. I've gigged the set up a few times now and it's lacking bottom end and presence even with the volume up pretty far and the bass turned up. Could I be overloading the cab? 

 

The TC website says the max rating of the cab is 250w @ 8ohms. I know the BH550's power rating is a bit of a mystery but maybe it's putting out over 250w @ 8ohms.

 

There's a K212 can available locally so I was thinking that swapping to that would give me more headroom and the 12" speakers would give a bit more bottom end. I'm playing with a rock covers band so there's quite a bit of volume on stage. Has anyone got experience of 2x10 and 2x12s and can advise on the differences? 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Thermal power ratings are worthless, as are driver sizes. The only way to know how cabs compare on paper is with SPL charts and driver excursion specs, which are written with invisible ink, stored away in the deep recesses of Churchill's bunker, guarded by Agents of Shield. 🤥

Since the K212 is local go try it, along side the 210. Then you'll know for sure.

[Balcro]

As Bill said, go and try for starters.

The move to a 2 x 12 would give a small increase in drive-unit thermal headroom, but not necessarily more bass and or more volume.

Your first paragraph suggests the output from the cab is sounding a bit stressed, so before jumping to buy a 2x12 I suggest you indicate on this thread, where you have set your volume & tone controls on the amp.

Alternatively, try some different e.q settings, such as progressively cutting the bass and then progressively increasing the low-mids - test & re-test. Then repeat for the hi-mids. After that consider leaving the treble flat or even trimming it back.

 

[shybaldbuddhist]

These are the settings I ended up with on the night. Gain just a bit back from peaking. I'm running a compressor on my board so there's an even signal going into the amp. 

 

I'll try a few different settings at the next gig and see if there's any improvement. I'm wondering if the room had anything to do with the poor sound at the weekend. 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Your sound is 1/3 amp, 1/3 speaker, 1/3 room. Guitar players are relatively unaffected by room acoustics and the finer points of speaker placement, but knowing how room acoustics and speaker placement affect the result is critical for bass players.

[joel406]

I used to have a GK CX210. 2 of em. Worst cabs on the planet. But I since got some Mesa Subway 212s. The difference is shocking. Amazing low end and just all-around great tone. When I stack both they will put just about anything to shame. Including SVTs. I don't dislike 10s. I have a pair of Mesa Subway 410s. Same thing as the 212s. Rock solid and both stacked will stop a charging T-Rex. But if you still want to live in the amp world you gotta get good cabs. The K212 isn't a bad cab. I had one. They just don't have the best tone.

[Downunderwonder]

All else equal isn't a bad assumption when it's the same company's cab so I would be quite confident the 212 has a significant extra kick to it.

[stevie]

22 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Thermal power ratings are worthless, as are driver sizes. The only way to know how cabs compare on paper is with SPL charts and driver excursion specs, which are written with invisible ink, stored away in the deep recesses of Churchill's bunker, guarded by Agents of Shield. 🤥

Since the K212 is local go try it, along side the 210. Then you'll know for sure.

 

No SPL charts, but Eminence's TS parameters for these drivers are listed in a thread about this particular cabinet at the 'other place'. 

 

Re 14.62 Ohms

fs 58.7 Hz
Le 1.06 mH

Mms 21.5 grams
QM 2.76

Mmd 17.7 grams
QE 0.81

Cms 0.341 mm/N
QT 0.62

Rms 2.877 N*sec/m
Xmax 3.30 mm

Vas 61.2 liters
Pmax 75 Watts

SD 355.4 cm^2
Bl 12.01 Tm

VD 117.4 cm^3
Coil Diameter 1.50 Inches

EBP 72.9
Gap Height 0.24 Inches

Magnet Weight 20 ounces
Efficiency 1.49 %

Winding Width 0.500 inches
SPL 93.7 dB 1W-1m

 

[fleabag]

Xmax 3.3mm

 

 

 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

1 minute ago, fleabag said:

Xmax 3.3mm

 

 

 

And that's not the worst of it. Totally inadequate, unless you use eight of them. 😒

[fleabag]

I was just thinking my apartment entry buzzer speaker has more xmax than that driver  🤓

[chris_b]

If using one cab is verging on overloading it, then you need 2 cabs. . . . or maybe better a better cab to start with.

 

I use 2 good 112's with a 5 string bass in some very loud bands. They are nowhere near overloading.

[DGBass]

The BC cabs are actually well made and fairly light. They also had a really good ASD1001 horn and crossover assembly, same fitted in both the BC210 and BC212. The stock drivers though are fairly flimsy and I've come across a few of these cabs being sold because of burned colis/seized assemblies. A pair of eminence beta 10's would give you a tad more thermal headroom and a big increase in sensitivity which means you might not need to run the amp so high to get the same loudness from your cab. The xmax though isn't any better but with speakers you can't have improvements in every way and two out of three aint bad from the price of beta 10s. The BC212 is a much more interesting option for a cab. Pop a set of Eminence Beta 12A2's in it and you'll have cab that can deliver a fair bit of oomph. The K212 is a similar design to the old BC212 but rated 400watt @ 8 ohms instead of thew old cabs 250w @ 8 ohms. I've no idea what sort of drivers are in a K212, probably a budget Eminence OEM build for TC. The 212 you mention will almost certainly cope better with your settings but may sound noticably different. it may be something you can EQ and be happy to use. 

[Balcro]

THanks for the picture. Combining that with the list of parameters in Stevie's post tells a big story.

Those speaker drive units are poor. "xmax 3.3mm!"; "totally inadequate"; "the stock drivers are fairly flimsy". Those comments say it all. The speakers aren't up to the job.

Give the the K212 a trial, but take your own amp and leads to test. Start off with the eq set to flat ( as per the handbook) and adjust from there. Good luck.

[shybaldbuddhist]

Thanks for all the detail information everyone. Excellent responses from the Bass Chat community as always. I'll try the 2x12 cab and see how I get on. 

[BassmanPaul]

I like to see members thank responders for their advice. It shows you were dragged up right!!

 

 

[Chienmortbb]

I once had a TC 2 x 12, I am not sure what model it was but the Eminence drivers were OEM, made under licence in the Far East (so not really Eminence).

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Eminence has a factory in China, so they may have been real Eminence. US made Eminence use components sourced from Asia, so Asian and American Eminence are built from the same parts.

[40hz]

Little late to the party here. The K-Series cabs had drivers made by a company called 'LaVoce'. I had the 2x10 version and they were *excellent* - best 2x10s I've ever used.

[Chienmortbb]

On 11/06/2023 at 12:56, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Eminence has a factory in China, so they may have been real Eminence. US made Eminence use components sourced from Asia, so Asian and American Eminence are built from the same parts.

You are right, the drivers could well have been made in Eminence’s factory in  the Far East and it was long ago so my memory is not what it was. I know that they were not Eminrnce USA made and there was no Eminence model number on the drivers, suggesting an OEM version. 
 

 

 

 

[BassmanPaul]

On 22/06/2023 at 02:26, Chienmortbb said:

 it was long ago so my memory is not what it was. 
 

 

 

 

Sadly after three strokes my memory is terrible!