Neck ”depth”

[dmccombe7]

Have there been any actual facts to back up either neck type. ?

Dave 

[Waddo Soqable]

I think the OP would have to say he's right.. in as much as narrow/skinny neck doesn't automatically equate to this  "fast" thing.. QED

The rest is all down to personal preference and or what works best for the individual bass player, hence the debate.. 

[Paul S]

1 hour ago, Basso said:

If you think an opinion beats or equals a factual argument well…ok.

 

There are no facts in your proposition that only fat necks promote 'proper technique'; it is simply your opinion. 

I agree that to say 'thin necks are fast is silly' but, frankly, no sillier than saying only fat necks promote correct technique.  If you think about all the (hundred of?) thousands of bass players who have habitually played Jazz basses over the past 60 or so years out of preference to fatter necked basses then maybe consider that their opinions 'beats or equals' yours, if that is important to you. 

[Muzz]

Can be the first person to jump in with the bassist's equivalent of Godwin's Law and mention a certain skinny-necked Jazz player called, now, what was it again? Jacob Pastorian, or something?...

[tauzero]

7 hours ago, Basso said:

Believe me: thin necks are not “faster” or “smoother” or “better” for anyone but someone with REALLY small hands aka: children. Rest of you: go practice!

(and burn all those slim necked basses).

 

KILL THE MYTH! ITS A MERCHANDISE TRICK! 

 

No it isn't. You are completely and utterly wrong. Slim necked headless active basses with at least five strings are the only way to go and anything else is rubbish. I say so so it must be true.

[tauzero]

2 hours ago, Basso said:

If you think an opinion beats or equals a factual argument well…ok.

 

You don't have a factual argument, you have an opinion.

[Norris]

There are three types of necks: fat ones, slim ones, and those that need winding in

[dclaassen]

8 hours ago, Basso said:

The main point of the post is that fatter necks actually are better suited for proper playing technique (thumb in the middle of the neck, playing with tip of curved fingers). The distance from the pushing fingers gets smaller to the string and the hand gets a better grip or “strength” thanks to a more solid contact to the actual neck. Less “air playing” equals less distance, more strength, less movement with the resulting increased control.
Believe me: thin necks are not “faster” or “smoother” or “better” for anyone but someone with REALLY small hands aka: children. Rest of you: go practice!

(and burn all those slim necked basses).

 

KILL THE MYTH! ITS A MERCHANDISE TRICK! 

Okay...I'll take a whack at this....

 

I've been teaching music students for over 40 years. I have both a BFA and my MMued (from University of North Texas). I have taken bass lessons from some pretty good players, and also been playing electric fretted, fretless and DB for a long, long time. 

 

Bottom line, there is a "right way" to play any instrument...it's how we teach beginners. But..the "right way" is always up for discussion. How high do you set a flute embouchure? How bad is having a brass player puff their cheeks? (I see you, Dizzy), What's the right way to teach a young guitarist a barre chord? 

 

What i would say to this particular discussion, however, is that, once you cross a certain level of experience or technical ability, the "right way" is only defined as the way you get the desired results. You have got to balance your technical and pedagogical knowledge with what you are actually seeing and hearing from the player. I wish I had a nickel for every great player I've seen and/or heard with "bad technique". Every single musician plays in a way that is physically unique to them. If they are well trained, they have enough of the "right stuff" to reach whatever goals they desire. If not, then something (also maybe to include gear) can be nudged toward the direction of the goal. 

 

I spent some time playing both my Jazz bass (very thin neck by the nut) and my MPV-5 (wider neck, but pretty thin for a 5er) and my thumb floats and also rotates a bit depending on position on the string or fretboard. My fretting fingers are pretty consistent, however. I'll be I could find a teacher who would tell me my technique is all wrong, but they would also need to convince me of the need to change, as I really enjoy playing in the manner I currently do. 

 

Now, about the "marketing gimmick" statement.....would you consider a Jazz Bass to be a marketing gimmick? Are you going to tell Lee Sklar, Duck Dunn, or about a thousand other bassists that they need to practice more a get a fatter neck? Is the first, original P Bass profile the only "correct one"? What are the approved dimensions of a non-gimmicky neck? Profile" How about fretboard material? String height? Where does this end?

 

Your "Facts" are, at the end of the day, informed opinions. You are fundamentally right, and practically wrong. I think that is called Hubris. 

 

Just my opinion....

[DTB]

28 minutes ago, dclaassen said:

Okay...I'll take a whack at this....

 

I've been teaching music students for over 40 years. I have both a BFA and my MMued (from University of North Texas). I have taken bass lessons from some pretty good players, and also been playing electric fretted, fretless and DB for a long, long time. 

 

Bottom line, there is a "right way" to play any instrument...it's how we teach beginners. But..the "right way" is always up for discussion. How high do you set a flute embouchure? How bad is having a brass player puff their cheeks? (I see you, Dizzy), What's the right way to teach a young guitarist a barre chord? 

 

What i would say to this particular discussion, however, is that, once you cross a certain level of experience or technical ability, the "right way" is only defined as the way you get the desired results. You have got to balance your technical and pedagogical knowledge with what you are actually seeing and hearing from the player. I wish I had a nickel for every great player I've seen and/or heard with "bad technique". Every single musician plays in a way that is physically unique to them. If they are well trained, they have enough of the "right stuff" to reach whatever goals they desire. If not, then something (also maybe to include gear) can be nudged toward the direction of the goal. 

 

I spent some time playing both my Jazz bass (very thin neck by the nut) and my MPV-5 (wider neck, but pretty thin for a 5er) and my thumb floats and also rotates a bit depending on position on the string or fretboard. My fretting fingers are pretty consistent, however. I'll be I could find a teacher who would tell me my technique is all wrong, but they would also need to convince me of the need to change, as I really enjoy playing in the manner I currently do. 

 

Now, about the "marketing gimmick" statement.....would you consider a Jazz Bass to be a marketing gimmick? Are you going to tell Lee Sklar, Duck Dunn, or about a thousand other bassists that they need to practice more a get a fatter neck? Is the first, original P Bass profile the only "correct one"? What are the approved dimensions of a non-gimmicky neck? Profile" How about fretboard material? String height? Where does this end?

 

Your "Facts" are, at the end of the day, informed opinions. You are fundamentally right, and practically wrong. I think that is called Hubris. 

 

Just my opinion....

All of the above ‘proper techniques’ started out as an opinion. 
I wouldn’t be surprised if the ‘don’t blow the cheeks out’ for brass was decided upon by the musical aristocratic elite back in the day purely because it looked better. “We can’t have the brass section of the orchestra all blowing out their cheeks, it wouldn’t look right, it would be insulting to the Lords and Ladies whom come to appreciate our fine music!!!”

Edited February 10, 2023 by DTB

[DTB]

47 minutes ago, Norris said:

There are three types of necks: fat ones, slim ones, and those that need winding in

Epic post. 

[dclaassen]

4 minutes ago, DTB said:

Epic post. 

Yup.....brilliant!

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, dclaassen said:

Okay...I'll take a whack at this....

 

I've been teaching music students for over 40 years. I have both a BFA and my MMued (from University of North Texas). I have taken bass lessons from some pretty good players, and also been playing electric fretted, fretless and DB for a long, long time. 

 

Bottom line, there is a "right way" to play any instrument...it's how we teach beginners. But..the "right way" is always up for discussion. How high do you set a flute embouchure? How bad is having a brass player puff their cheeks? (I see you, Dizzy), What's the right way to teach a young guitarist a barre chord? 

 

What i would say to this particular discussion, however, is that, once you cross a certain level of experience or technical ability, the "right way" is only defined as the way you get the desired results. You have got to balance your technical and pedagogical knowledge with what you are actually seeing and hearing from the player. I wish I had a nickel for every great player I've seen and/or heard with "bad technique". Every single musician plays in a way that is physically unique to them. If they are well trained, they have enough of the "right stuff" to reach whatever goals they desire. If not, then something (also maybe to include gear) can be nudged toward the direction of the goal. 

 

I spent some time playing both my Jazz bass (very thin neck by the nut) and my MPV-5 (wider neck, but pretty thin for a 5er) and my thumb floats and also rotates a bit depending on position on the string or fretboard. My fretting fingers are pretty consistent, however. I'll be I could find a teacher who would tell me my technique is all wrong, but they would also need to convince me of the need to change, as I really enjoy playing in the manner I currently do. 

 

Now, about the "marketing gimmick" statement.....would you consider a Jazz Bass to be a marketing gimmick? Are you going to tell Lee Sklar, Duck Dunn, or about a thousand other bassists that they need to practice more a get a fatter neck? Is the first, original P Bass profile the only "correct one"? What are the approved dimensions of a non-gimmicky neck? Profile" How about fretboard material? String height? Where does this end?

 

Your "Facts" are, at the end of the day, informed opinions. You are fundamentally right, and practically wrong. I think that is called Hubris. 

 

Just my opinion....

You’re not even talking about the same thing.

I’ve played lots of jazz basses without “thin” necks. I’m talking about depth, or girth if you will.

Nothing else.

And yes. Of course I’m right, only a sad relativist would thing there’s no right or wrong in this world.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, DTB said:

All of the above ‘proper techniques’ started out as an opinion. 
I wouldn’t be surprised if the ‘don’t blow the cheeks out’ for brass was decided upon by the musical aristocratic elite back in the day purely because it looked better. “We can’t have the brass section of the orchestra all blowing out their cheeks, it wouldn’t look right, it would be insulting to the Lords and Ladies whom come to appreciate our fine music!!!”

Wrong. Proper technique stands on physiology.

Opinions about proper technique stand on feelings.

Thats why not a single argument is seen against my point this far.

[mario_buoninfante]

On 08/02/2023 at 15:40, Basso said:

There’s nothing “fast” about a slim or shallow neck.
The myth must die! 
 

Discuss 

 

I think you might be wrong, thin necks can definitely be considered *fast.

You ain't said faster


* fast = connected or attached in a way that is not easily unfastened

Edited February 10, 2023 by mario_buoninfante

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, mario_buoninfante said:

 

I think you might be wrong, thin necks can definitely be considered *fast.

You ain't said faster


* fast = connected or attached in a way that is not easily unfastened

The neck itself is neither fast or faster. It’s a dead thing. 

[TheLowDown]

9 hours ago, Basso said:

The main point of the post is that fatter necks actually are better suited for proper playing technique (thumb in the middle of the neck, playing with tip of curved fingers). The distance from the pushing fingers gets smaller to the string and the hand gets a better grip or “strength” thanks to a more solid contact to the actual neck. Less “air playing” equals less distance, more strength, less movement with the resulting increased control.
Believe me: thin necks are not “faster” or “smoother” or “better” for anyone but someone with REALLY small hands aka: children. Rest of you: go practice!

(and burn all those slim necked basses).

I've heard of this before. Ideally, it is said, the hand should be an open position as if you're gently holding a tennis ball which allows for the hand muscles to be at their most relaxed. With shallow necks, this allegedly puts some strain on the muscles of the palm over time. Necks that have some depth being less likely to result in strain because they retain the open hand position more.

Sounds plausible, maybe a physiotherapist has more insight.

 

 

 

[dclaassen]

21 minutes ago, Basso said:

Wrong. Proper technique stands on physiology.

Opinions about proper technique stand on feelings.

Thats why not a single argument is seen against my point this far.

Who developed proper technique? If proper technique is only and exclusively based on physiology, then you also need a floating thumb on your plucking hand...period. 

Technique based on physiology exists to avoid injury, but it still happens. If you play enough, even with "perfect" technique, you can develop RSD, or even stress fractures. Even with that, I challenge you to come up with a list of universally approved "correct" techniques that are espoused by all teachers and bassists....not going to happen though. 

 

Otherwise, I'm thinking you are quite young, like to define your terms ("skinny") to suit your view of the world, and don't yet know what you don't know. If you can manage to open your mind up to alternatives, then maybe you might learn more than you think you know right now. If not, then have fun sitting in a corner being  "right". 

[DTB]

I wish I knew what I know now, when I was younger oh (all together now) 

I wish……….

 

lmfao

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, dclaassen said:

Who developed proper technique? If proper technique is only and exclusively based on physiology, then you also need a floating thumb on your plucking hand...period. 

Technique based on physiology exists to avoid injury, but it still happens. If you play enough, even with "perfect" technique, you can develop RSD, or even stress fractures. Even with that, I challenge you to come up with a list of universally approved "correct" techniques that are espoused by all teachers and bassists....not going to happen though. 

 

Otherwise, I'm thinking you are quite young, like to define your terms ("skinny") to suit your view of the world, and don't yet know what you don't know. If you can manage to open your mind up to alternatives, then maybe you might learn more than you think you know right now. If not, then have fun sitting in a corner being  "right". 

If you’re not with us you’re against us. Even if we are wrong. If you’re sure about something you must be young or unexperienced. 

Feelings and opinions. Not a single valid point. 

[DTB]

Bored now…..

[Guest]

Just now, DTB said:

Bored now…..

Bye 👋 

[mario_buoninfante]

Ok, seriously now.

Slim necks aren't faster than thicker ones.

It's subjective.

All good so far.

 

Then things went south when you tried to sneak this in

 

9 hours ago, Basso said:

The main point of the post is that fatter necks actually are better suited for proper p

Not sure how that is THE main point, since it wasn't even mentioned initially and there is no obvious/direct link between your first post and this mentioned above.

 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, mario_buoninfante said:

Ok, seriously now.

Slim necks aren't faster than thicker ones.

It's subjective.

All good so far.

 

Then things went south when you tried to sneak this in

 

Not sure how that is THE main point, since it wasn't even mentioned initially and there is no obvious/direct link between your first post and this mentioned above.

 

Don’t confuse the inability to connect the dots with ”there’s no link”.

[pfretrock]

2 hours ago, Norris said:

There are three types of necks: fat ones, slim ones, and those that need winding in

Rubber neck makes four.

[mario_buoninfante]

2 minutes ago, Basso said:

Don’t confuse the inability to connect the dots with ”there’s no link”.

 

Ah ok got it.

Pretentious/offensive/provocative/troll mode ON, uh?

Your second post is based on fried air.

And your first one is just provocative in the most boring way possible.

Have fun

If fun is the right word