Happy Jack's Mike Lull Necks

[Happy Jack]

29 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

 

The good news, though is that they have been drilled with a brad-point drill so it should be relatively easy to clean them up - maybe even slightly bigger to take out the original small dot too.  If I can find a plug cutter the right size, the plan would be to cut some maple plugs.  It won't be even close to invisible but, with the luminlays also in the same positions, it shouldn't be quite as much 'in yer face' as the present black ones.

 

 

 

Or use Purpleheart plugs with the Luminlays at the centre in fluorescent green.

 

Or something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh alright, I'll come quietly.

 

[Andyjr1515]

44 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

I assumed you would only be able to do that if you replaced the entire trussrod. If you can replace the nut with the rest of the trussrod in situ then that's jam all the way.

Well, providing it passes the 'with strings on too' test, then yes - I can still narrow the neck as planned with the fretboard still on.  Different method, but actually quite a bit easier 

 

The inability to sand away the large dot recesses re-raises whether we now still go all from the bass side.  It would be no problem to narrow both the bass and treble and keep the top dots in line with the strings...

 

[Happy Jack]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

The inability to sand away the large dot recesses re-raises whether we now still go all from the bass side.  It would be no problem to narrow both the bass and treble and keep the top dots in line with the strings...

 

I'm guessing that sanding it entirely on the bass side would still reduce the size of the holes to a significant degree, but you've already mentioned that a better solution might actually be to make those holes bigger.

 

On balance the obvious response is that, when you're working with an expert, you're usually best off leaving it to him! Please just pretend that it's your own bass, Andy, and do what you would do if that were the case. 🙂

[Andyjr1515]

17 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

On balance the obvious response is that, when you're working with an expert, you're usually best off leaving it to him! Please just pretend that it's your own bass, Andy, and do what you would do if that were the case

Clearly you haven't heard MrsAndyjr1515's opinion on such matters....  

 

Anyway, second and major test - will it hold the neck relief under full string tension...

 

So it will sit under tension for a full day/night cycle of house temperature change and I'll check the relief again this time tomorrow.  The hex nut is on its way and when that arrives I'll have another look at the trussrod thread.  I've noticed that when it has been standing a while and then you tighten or loosen the nut, you feel the rod twisting before the nut 'cracks' the joint and moves.  In that I have three stacked  and free moving washers between the rod and the anchor point, it can only be the thread itself that is binding.  With the new nut, I'll use a teeny bit of PTFE grease and see if we can get it moving a little easier.

 

This is with the narrower nut in the middle.  I think (although MrsAndyjr1515 would tut and shake her head) this is what we should do, rather than offset to one side or the other.  It also evens the bends of the strings over the nut which is no bad thing 

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Andyjr1515

[Andyjr1515]

The Fender Standard hex nut arrived - and I also bottomed that issue of the nut 'cracking' loose...because the Fender was even worse!  And the problem?  Actually both nuts had a taper in their internal threads!  I got an imperial bolt of the right size and, sure enough, it would screw in nicely for 4-5 turns and then became very, very stiff.

 

The solution was a quick clearance of the thread with an imperial tap (goodness knows how I came to possess one...but I do!) and also add even more spacers so that the nut doesn't have to screw in so far before it starts bending the neck.

 

So we now have a hex nut adjuster - which will make it much easier for @Happy Jack to adjust it in the future:

 

 

I reassembled it and was able to adjust from a large relief to dead flat, even with the middle string still in place:

 

 

And talking of that middle string - when we were in the pub talking about the options to narrow the neck, Jack had noted that the strings didn't really line up with the top fretboard dots in the first place - and I noticed that when I did the mockup above.  But I also noticed a stress lacquer crack at the corner of the treble side of the neck pocket when I was taking the neck off.  Ahah!  There's a clue.

 

This is the effect (this one is purely aesthetic but the little lacquer stress crack less so):

 

And this is most of the cause - the pickguard is encroaching into the neck pocket by enough to push the neck both across and at a slight angle.  It's encroaching into the pocket by nearly a mm:

 

I'll plane and sand the side overlap flush (it's perfectly flush at the back) before I set the final position of the nut and start filing the neck narrower - which I will start on tomorrow

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Andyjr1515]

That's better!

 

In my defence, I have to say here that this is not entirely an OCD thing 

 

It's just that in guitar and bass geometry, everything affects everything - and so the more things that you can get correct at the start will mean that more things will be correct in the subsequent actions.

 

Which is just as well, because, now I have also placed the nut in line...

 

 

...then, in about 15 minutes time, it's going to be taken down to the cellar and attacked with a Shinto rasp file!  

[Hellzero]

So @Happy Jack is eventually ending with a one string bass ? 

[Andyjr1515]

33 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

So @Happy Jack is eventually ending with a one string bass ? 

 

Well...you know the wobbly dining table problem...where you shorten the longer leg and it still wobbles and you carry on until you end up with a coffee table?

 

Just conditioning him 

[Happy Jack]

Next stop ... my Seasick Steve Tribute band.

[Andyjr1515]

First job after removing the neck was to take the tuners off.  This is a nice touch - recessed washer seatings:

 

On the other hand, I will be leaving the string trees in place.  It is important that the headstock isn't damaged at all, regardless of the mayhem that will be going on around it, and these act as protective spacers

 

And so - I mentioned the Shinto rasp file.  Some builders say that, for wood, the best files around are the top notch hand cut professional rasp files.  But for all-round wonderment, in my view, there is nothing that comes remotely close to the Shinto.  They are unusual in that they are made from blades similar to hacksaw blades.  One side is coarse and the other is fine:

 

Why are they so wonderful?  Well - apart from the fact that they can cut through even the hardest woods at a remarkable rate - but leaving an impressively smooth surface - they also can file METAL!!

 

So for narrowing a fretted neck, they are absolutely perfect:

 

 

 

Remembering to always file the frets into the neck, it took no more than 10 minutes to slim down the neck accurately up to the sharpie line. 

 

And here is the slimmed down neck, in profile only at the moment so lots more fun stuff to do:

 

Next step, is reshaping the neck to blend it all in from this edge round to the spine, which won't be impacted. 

 

And here I will be using my next favourite type of hand tool - the humble, cheap as chips, cabinet card scraper 

 

  

[ezbass]

This so cool (as are all of Andy's threads). That Shinto files looks awesome and answered the question in my head that was, what about the frets? However, how wonderful a tool may it look or be, it's the hands wielding it that counts the most (yeah, yeah, I know I'm embarrassing you, I'm OK with it ). And now to the actual point of my post, beyond blandishments; how far down the neck does the slimming go?

[Daz39]

18 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

The Fender Standard hex nut arrived - and I also bottomed that issue of the nut 'cracking' loose...because the Fender was even worse!  And the problem?  Actually both nuts had a taper in their internal threads!  I got an imperial bolt of the right size and, sure enough, it would screw in nicely for 4-5 turns and then became very, very stiff.

 

The solution was a quick clearance of the thread with an imperial tap (goodness knows how I came to possess one...but I do!) and also add even more spacers so that the nut doesn't have to screw in so far before it starts bending the neck.

 

So we now have a hex nut adjuster - which will make it much easier for @Happy Jack to adjust it in the future:

 

 

I reassembled it and was able to adjust from a large relief to dead flat, even with the middle string still in place:

 

 

And talking of that middle string - when we were in the pub talking about the options to narrow the neck, Jack had noted that the strings didn't really line up with the top fretboard dots in the first place - and I noticed that when I did the mockup above.  But I also noticed a stress lacquer crack at the corner of the treble side of the neck pocket when I was taking the neck off.  Ahah!  There's a clue.

 

This is the effect (this one is purely aesthetic but the little lacquer stress crack less so):

 

And this is most of the cause - the pickguard is encroaching into the neck pocket by enough to push the neck both across and at a slight angle.  It's encroaching into the pocket by nearly a mm:

 

I'll plane and sand the side overlap flush (it's perfectly flush at the back) before I set the final position of the nut and start filing the neck narrower - which I will start on tomorrow

 

 

 

 

 

 

It’s like CSI Midlands meets McGyver!

Forensic rooting out of problems and fixing them from the box of spares.

[Andyjr1515]

7 minutes ago, ezbass said:

how far down the neck does the slimming go?

I've done it to the two points where the neck pocket sides join (around 16th fret on the bass side and the 19th on the treble side).  You could taper it at the fretboard level to the very end of the fretboard but we are talking a miniscule difference in width at that point.

[ezbass]

6 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

I've done it to the two points where the neck pocket sides join (around 16th fret on the bass side and the 19th on the treble side).  You could taper it at the fretboard level to the very end of the fretboard but we are talking a miniscule difference in width at that point.

Wow! It's really going to feel like a totally different bass, which is what @Happy Jack was hoping for, I'm guessing.

[Andyjr1515]

41 minutes ago, ezbass said:

Wow! It's really going to feel like a totally different bass, which is what @Happy Jack was hoping for, I'm guessing.

The slim down should absolutely make it feel different - and yes, that's exactly what @Happy Jack is after.  But the depth will be the same and the profile very, very similar so it should feel 'in the same vibe' but simply a lot easier to play for his preferred style 

 

And as Jack himself says, he already has a Plan B for the single-string version 

 

[Andyjr1515]

So the humble cabinet scraper.  Basically, if you get dust, then either the burr has been prepared badly/is blunt or it is being used wrongly. 

 

The reality is that it is a type of plane - it is designed to be able to cut wafer thin and long shavings:

 

And I find it ideal for modifying or carving necks because it is efficient but very controllable.

 

Often I will do this with the neck still on the bass, sitting and holding it a bit like a back-to-front cello.  But for the first de-varnish and rough cut, then I've cantilevered it from my work bench with the fretboard sitting in a fret radius block:

 

For the first rough-cut, I marked the spine with a sharpie and then simply worked on removing the edge that the slimming left and blending it into the existing profile.  This is done running the scraper up the whole length of the neck (which is why it's cantilevered) so that the profile is continuous around the neck and along it.  The carve is usually best done by feel - the edge starts off feeling like a distinct line to your fingers, then feels like a slight lump as it smooths out and then, if it feels like one continuous curve to your finger or thumb from the fretboard to the spine, you know you have a blended shape.

 

Here it is after the rough carve:

 

You can see here how little of the black epoxy side dot depth has been removed.  Sorting that will probably take longer than the whole reshaping and refinishing process!!

 

So far so good....

 

 

[TheGreek]

That looks and sounds so scary - I bet Jack is wearing brown underwear this week.

[Happy Jack]

53 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

That looks and sounds so scary - I bet Jack is wearing brown underwear this week.

 

In truth, Mick, I'm loving this. Seriously.

 

[Hellzero]

31 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

 

In truth, Mick, I'm loving this. Seriously.

 

The brown underwear ?

[LukeFRC]

I'm glad the neck is rescuable. the string spacing is... odd.... the neck side markers an even stranger choice by someone! 

[Andyjr1515]

1 hour ago, TheGreek said:

That looks and sounds so scary 

 

Actually, it's this next bit that's a bit scary - drilling out the old big and small dots

 

This is so close to the top of the fretboard, the drill holes have to be spot on - my little Proxxon drill-press and the neck held absolutely vertical using that radius block again helps enormously.  I decided that the dot at the 15th was as good a one as any to try it out:

 

I don't have a plug cutter quite the right size, so I cut one from some plain rock maple offcut (should match) slightly larger than the drill hole and slimmed it down in a hand-drill chuck with some sandpaper on a block:

 

Trying to match the grain direction as well as possible, glued it in, cut flush and sanded it.  I'm quite pleased with the result - once there is a luminlay in the middle, I reckon that will look like it was meant to be there

 

Now just got the others to plug - but that's enough scary stuff for one day, so it will have to wait until tomorrow

 

 

 

[Hellzero]

Wow, terrific work @Andyjr1515 ! Congratulations, it's almost invisible !

[Happy Jack]

8 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

Wow, terrific work @Andyjr1515 ! Congratulations, it's almost invisible !

 

Damned right - superb!

 

[Happy Jack]

26 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

.... the neck side markers an even stranger choice by someone! 

 

That would be me, and there was a perfectly logical reason for that choice at the time. 

 

That reason is now gone, courtesy of £16,000 worth of eye operations last year, which is why those super-sized dots no longer serve any useful purpose.

 

[ezbass]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is scarily brilliant work, I honestly couldn’t see it at first glance and had to really look close on my tablet. We really are not worthy.