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DI or Line Out ? Ashdown ABM 600 EVO iv - A Hah!!!


redbandit599

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Hi all

 

I have an Ashdown ABM Evo iv 600 - sounds great, very happy with it. I use the onboard drive, eq, sub etc and do even switch them in and out with the footswitch

 

We recently started recording our gigs from the mixer and listening back to the DI'd bass sound (which is Post EQ from the amp and before the mixer and EQ have done their thing) and it just sounded like it was all bottom, no definition. Now my sound live isn't like that, and we sound good through the PA but it bugged me. Obviously, we probably all want our sound in the PA to be close to our rig. I also use in ears, so a 'better' bass sound would be good.

 

So at rehearsal last night we tried it into the studio mixer - again my basic DI signal was flubby and also quite quiet - needed a lot of gain. Just to try it we then ran the 1/4" Line Out into the mixer instead, obviously this was a hotter signal, but it also sounded much better with all the mids and highs being present - this sounded more like me.

 

I understand that the DI is balanced and is the tool for the job, but I wonder if I could take the line out and send it to the desk via separate basic DI box rather than use the amps built in one? If so, what sort of box should I use? Passive or Active?

I've got a Sansamp but I don't really want to introduce more tone shaping at this point - would also be handy if I could use Phantom Power. One less plug!

 

So, any ideas? Anyone else experience or do something similar?

 

Cheers Jason

Edited by redbandit599
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May be worth getting the onboard DI checked out. Usually a bass cab will add its own flavour so a DI from an amp to PA if anything should be clearer than what comes out of a bass rig. I’d say get in touch with Ashdown, seek their advice.

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Just now, Lozz196 said:

May be worth getting the onboard DI checked out. Usually a bass cab will add its own flavour so a DI from an amp to PA if anything should be clearer than what comes out of a bass rig. I’d say get in touch with Ashdown, seek their advice.

Hi Lozz, thanks yes I did wonder. I know you always use your Sansamp for DI purposes. Just wondered if they were all like that and a bit lacklustre? Did you ever try the onboard DI from an ABM yourself?

 

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4 minutes ago, redbandit599 said:

Hi Lozz, thanks yes I did wonder. I know you always use your Sansamp for DI purposes. Just wondered if they were all like that and a bit lacklustre? Did you ever try the onboard DI from an ABM yourself?

 

Only using the Sansamp as my eq and selecting pre-eq on the amps DI. Still came out clearer/sharper than through my cabs.

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I agree with Lozz that there may be something awry with your line out and it’s definitely worth inquiring about. 
 

That said, I’ve found the line and/or DI outs of most amps to be pretty inconsistent from model to model and brand to brand. It often seems like the DI is added as an afterthought and doesn’t get the design attention that the rest of the circuit gets. 
 

If you’re happy with the sound of your line out, I’d suggest running it through a Countryman Type 85 direct box. This box was (still is, really) the industry standard DI for decades and the design remains virtually unchanged since the 1970s. It will work with line or instrument level inputs and it doesn’t color the sound in any way. Add to that the facts that the company is small and very, very helpful if you ever need support and the need for support is very unlikely as a Countryman DI could survive practically anything and you have a recipe for success. 

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37 minutes ago, redbandit599 said:

Yes, I need mine post EQ as I use the amps switching to drop the drive, eq and sub in and out.

Cheers 🙂

 

Ok, is the button a pre / post 'eq only', or a pre / post everything? (I used to have an abm600, i cant remember whether or not it sent drive and sub settings on both).

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15 minutes ago, la bam said:

 

Ok, is the button a pre / post 'eq only', or a pre / post everything? (I used to have an abm600, i cant remember whether or not it sent drive and sub settings on both).

Yes, it's everything- which makes sense as otherwise the amp switches would only have effect on stage 🙂

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1 hour ago, redbandit599 said:

Yes, it's everything- which makes sense as otherwise the amp switches would only have effect on stage 🙂

Was there any tonal difference through the DI when you switched the various sections in or out?

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2 hours ago, Lo-E said:

I agree with Lozz that there may be something awry with your line out and it’s definitely worth inquiring about. 
 

That said, I’ve found the line and/or DI outs of most amps to be pretty inconsistent from model to model and brand to brand. It often seems like the DI is added as an afterthought and doesn’t get the design attention that the rest of the circuit gets. 
 

If you’re happy with the sound of your line out, I’d suggest running it through a Countryman Type 85 direct box. This box was (still is, really) the industry standard DI for decades and the design remains virtually unchanged since the 1970s. It will work with line or instrument level inputs and it doesn’t color the sound in any way. Add to that the facts that the company is small and very, very helpful if you ever need support and the need for support is very unlikely as a Countryman DI could survive practically anything and you have a recipe for success. 

Countryman are not readily available in the uk. Our industry-standard active DIs are BSS AR133 and KT DN100. Either of those are a great choice.

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1 hour ago, Merton said:

Was there any tonal difference through the DI when you switched the various sections in or out?

Not that I could discern tbh - it was a very low in pitch and volume signal. You could hear the differences using the Line Out though.

 

Edited by redbandit599
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7 minutes ago, redbandit599 said:

Not that I could discern tbh - it was a very low in pitch and volume signal. You could hear the differences using the Line Out though.

 

Definitely sounds like a DI issue. Email Ashdown, they’ll sort you out :)

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I have an ABM 600 evo iv, and use the di at all gigs to run into the mixer that I use for my IEMs and recording off the desk. It doesn't sound flubby at all, it sounds pretty much exactly like what is coming out of the speaker, so I think you might have some kind of an issue with yours 

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Well, I've found the issue. I plugged the head directly into a PA cab at home and had a tinker - this is why you should NEVER read the manual....😉

 

According to the manual on the Ashdown website "DIRECT INJECT (D.I.) - A balanced D.I. is provided on a latching XLR socket. This has a push button placed below it that allows the user to choose either a Pre E.Q. signal (button pushed IN) or a Post E.Q. Post Sub and effects signal (button OUT)."

 

Well, not in my case - it's the other way around! So my DI signal has been missing all that valve drive and EQ goodness. I've also found that changing the stage volume DOES NOT change the DI level (hooray!) - which is also different to what Ashdown told me previously (anyone can have an off day) 😄

 

I just need to redo the sticky labels I made because the actual lettering on the amp is impossible to read.

 

Thanks all!

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  • redbandit599 changed the title to DI or Line Out ? Ashdown ABM 600 EVO iv - A Hah!!!
7 minutes ago, redbandit599 said:

Well, I've found the issue. I plugged the head directly into a PA cab at home and had a tinker - this is why you should NEVER read the manual....😉

 

According to the manual on the Ashdown website "DIRECT INJECT (D.I.) - A balanced D.I. is provided on a latching XLR socket. This has a push button placed below it that allows the user to choose either a Pre E.Q. signal (button pushed IN) or a Post E.Q. Post Sub and effects signal (button OUT)."

 

Well, not in my case - it's the other way around! So my DI signal has been missing all that valve drive and EQ goodness. I've also found that changing the stage volume DOES NOT change the DI level (hooray!) - which is also different to what Ashdown told me previously (anyone can have an off day) 😄

 

I just need to redo the sticky labels I made because the actual lettering on the amp is impossible to read.

 

Thanks all!

 

Thought so.

 

Ashdowns instructions re what happens when buttons are pushed in or out are useless. They differ between abm and rm too.

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On 01/10/2021 at 17:37, nilebodgers said:

Countryman are not readily available in the uk. Our industry-standard active DIs are BSS AR133 and KT DN100. Either of those are a great choice.

I can vouch for the Orchid Classic DI. Will take either Instrument or line input and can also take Phantom Power from the desk or a PP3. Bullet proof reasonable and Made in Devon. Could only be improved by moving production a few miles east to Dorset.:biggrin:. Seriousley though, John is a mine of information and can answer all your questions.

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  • 1 year later...

Old thread but I’ve been trying to figure out something similar to this. 
 

I’ve just bought an ABM600 of a fellow BC and love it so far. 
 

I’m moving away from helix/matrix power amp. I’ve also got a few of the usual pedals in front of the ABM including an Origin Effects Bass Rig pre amp. 
 

my question is around Should I use the DI on the Amp to FOH which then doesn’t get any cab colouring or use the DI out of my pre amp which has a cab sim?? But then I don’t get the FOH benefit of the ABM??

 

anyone got any thoughts on this. ?

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How much of the ABMs EQ do you use, if a fair bit then go DI from there. I’ve found that as cabs in general have a coloured sound (usually adding in low end) what goes to DI from an amp (or pedal) is less so, this making it easier for FOH to mix in. 

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I have a similar situation where I run my Ampeg SGT-Di in front of my ToneHammer 700 

 

I tend to use the Di from the amp so I get the final post EQ sound ( pedals and amp ) 

 

I don’t use speaker sims so the SGT Di output isn’t beneficial to me. 
 

 

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