andrewrx7 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I remember reading about sound limits a while ago on this forum, but we had our first experience of it on Sat night. Just getting set up, when the manager comes along and says you have to move one of the PA speaker as it is pointing towards the bar. Apparently, new regs last year state that noise behind the bar cannot exceed 80dB. Health & Safety at work and all that…..apparently he has been checked up on a few times to! On top of that, the police were hanging around all night, and gave him a couple of nods to keep the noise down. (Just to say we are not an overly loud band, by the way!). What a ridiculous situation. I can understand the point about the barstaff – that makes sense and personally I would not argue against it – but live music venues should really put a bit more thought into how to position a band, and not just “shove in the corner” attitude. What was pretty stupid on Sat night as we were loading back up at 12.30am, was that opposite us was a students residence apparently – clearly a party (or parties) were going on – loud music, shouting etc….and next to that, was a night club – pounding bass etc……so why pick on the pub? Bet the police and environmental health weren’t hounding the students and the night club “to turn it down”, were they! I would guess that if the 80dB level behind the bar is actively enforced, then there will be a fair few places simply giving up live music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 [quote name='andrewrx7' post='422913' date='Mar 2 2009, 09:34 AM']I remember reading about sound limits a while ago on this forum, but we had our first experience of it on Sat night. Just getting set up, when the manager comes along and says you have to move one of the PA speaker as it is pointing towards the bar. Apparently, new regs last year state that noise behind the bar cannot exceed 80dB. Health & Safety at work and all that…..apparently he has been checked up on a few times to! On top of that, the police were hanging around all night, and gave him a couple of nods to keep the noise down. (Just to say we are not an overly loud band, by the way!). What a ridiculous situation. I can understand the point about the barstaff – that makes sense and personally I would not argue against it – but live music venues should really put a bit more thought into how to position a band, and not just “shove in the corner” attitude. What was pretty stupid on Sat night as we were loading back up at 12.30am, was that opposite us was a students residence apparently – clearly a party (or parties) were going on – loud music, shouting etc….and next to that, was a night club – pounding bass etc……so why pick on the pub? Bet the police and environmental health weren’t hounding the students and the night club “to turn it down”, were they! I would guess that if the 80dB level behind the bar is actively enforced, then there will be a fair few places simply giving up live music.[/quote] Well the Students wouldn't have a problem as the law in question is regarding noise in the workplace... so you can have your music loud as you want if it's a party..... as for the nightclub... most clubs are designed so that the noise level does not exceed the required level at the bar area..... on the dance floor is fine. As for the pub....... your right..... they never think about where they put the band and how that affects the workers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 You should have called the cops and complained about the noise from the students I think I would agree that I'm seeing more of this than I used to. Pubs where anything use to go are now asking us to keep it down a bit. It's particularly annoying that the complainant is very often the guy in the flat above the pub. That's a bit like buying a house next to a football ground and being upset that you can't park on a Saturday afternoon. On the other side of the coin we have to play the game a bit. Working in a pub is a sh*t job for minimum wage and that shouldn't mean you have to go deaf too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Surely it would be easier just to supply the bar staff with the appropriate PPE for the job - earplugs. No-one stops people extracting oil and gas because it's a wee bit dangerous - they're working with pressurised flammable materials, quite a few bone-crunching metres above a freezing cold sea which would probably kill them in minutes. Of course, you should be wearing earplugs if you're going to a live music venue - punter, worker or performer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceguyhomer Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Fooking sound limiters - I always tell 'em it's a breach of my human rights to prevent me from being a noisy bastard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Totally pointless! How many dB SPL is a Wetherspoons when full of drunk students despite having no music? Bet it's above the 80dB limit. Give the bar staff earplugs. I have never ever been in any club that comes near complying with these regulations - if you have to shout to get a drink then it's above legal limits. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlloyd Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 [quote name='neepheid' post='422927' date='Mar 2 2009, 09:50 AM']Surely it would be easier just to supply the bar staff with the appropriate PPE for the job - earplugs.[/quote] Might make it tricky to take orders from customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 (edited) [quote name='dlloyd' post='422933' date='Mar 2 2009, 10:01 AM']Might make it tricky to take orders from customers.[/quote] Not at all, it's surprisingly effective. They have to shout to hear themselves over the music anyway and you can hear them perfectly well as a result. A combination of that, lipreading and pointing at beer taps gets you there with little or no bother. Edited March 2, 2009 by neepheid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='422923' date='Mar 2 2009, 09:45 AM']...like buying a house next to a football ground and being upset that you can't park on a Saturday afternoon.[/quote] Cambridge City supporters have been banned from taking drums to games following complaints from sensitive souls in nearby flats. They'll be banning them from kicking a ball lest it breaks a window next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 To most live venues (not all, but most) I'd say the positioning of the band is generally a bit of an afterthought. As for the whole issue of sound limiting, well from what we've encountered as a band before it seems like some dumbass from the health and safety sector of the government has decided that anything constituting even as much as a tap on the floor should be deemed as excessive noise. But there's just no way around it. Just some jerk flexing his muscles in a response from some of the public claiming some venues are too loud. Worse still, a lot of the limiters haven't been set up properly, and don't give an accurate portrayal of dB levels anyway, making them an even more superfluous attempt at noise control. We include a bit of a clause in our contract that basically states that 'sound limiters and the band, in the kindest possible way, don't get on', i.e. if you're having a wedding at a venue with a sound limiter then rip it out the wall before we get there otherwise we're going to get our power cut off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umph Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 [quote name='andrewrx7' post='422913' date='Mar 2 2009, 09:34 AM']I remember reading about sound limits a while ago on this forum, but we had our first experience of it on Sat night. Just getting set up, when the manager comes along and says you have to move one of the PA speaker as it is pointing towards the bar. Apparently, new regs last year state that noise behind the bar cannot exceed 80dB. Health & Safety at work and all that…..apparently he has been checked up on a few times to! On top of that, the police were hanging around all night, and gave him a couple of nods to keep the noise down. (Just to say we are not an overly loud band, by the way!). What a ridiculous situation. I can understand the point about the barstaff – that makes sense and personally I would not argue against it – but live music venues should really put a bit more thought into how to position a band, and not just “shove in the corner” attitude. What was pretty stupid on Sat night as we were loading back up at 12.30am, was that opposite us was a students residence apparently – clearly a party (or parties) were going on – loud music, shouting etc….and next to that, was a night club – pounding bass etc……so why pick on the pub? Bet the police and environmental health weren’t hounding the students and the night club “to turn it down”, were they! I would guess that if the 80dB level behind the bar is actively enforced, then there will be a fair few places simply giving up live music.[/quote] not experienced this yet, hope i don't either don't think my amp goes below 80db Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 It's bloody nonsense. You expose yourself (fnar) to well in excess of 80dB simply by walking along the pavement next to a busy high street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 [quote name='neepheid' post='422947' date='Mar 2 2009, 10:18 AM']A combination of that, lipreading and pointing at beer taps gets you there with little or no bother.[/quote] Not so good when you want a Slow Comfortable Screw Against The Wall, mind ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcro Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 (edited) [quote name='andrewrx7' post='422913' date='Mar 2 2009, 09:34 AM']I remember reading about sound limits a while ago on this forum, but we had our first experience of it on Sat night. Just getting set up, when the manager comes along and says you have to move one of the PA speaker as it is pointing towards the bar. Apparently, new regs last year state that noise behind the bar cannot exceed 80dB. Health & Safety at work and all that…..apparently he has been checked up on a few times to! On top of that, the police were hanging around all night, and gave him a couple of nods to keep the noise down. (Just to say we are not an overly loud band, by the way!). What a ridiculous situation. I can understand the point about the barstaff – that makes sense and personally I would not argue against it – but live music venues should really put a bit more thought into how to position a band, and not just “shove in the corner” attitude. What was pretty stupid on Sat night as we were loading back up at 12.30am, was that opposite us was a students residence apparently – clearly a party (or parties) were going on – loud music, shouting etc….and next to that, was a night club – pounding bass etc……so why pick on the pub? Bet the police and environmental health weren’t hounding the students and the night club “to turn it down”, were they! I would guess that if the 80dB level behind the bar is actively enforced, then there will be a fair few places simply giving up live music.[/quote] The manager completely misunderstands the law, even as it's written. [u]There is NO H&S law[/u] stating the noise behind the bar cannot exceed 80dB(a). A packed modern pub probably exceeds 80dB without musical eneterainment. It's completely bonkers. 80dB is known as "the first action level". That's the point at which the management of the premises/pub/venue etc., has to carry out an assessment. Nothing more. It doesn't even apply until they get 80dB continuous for 40 hours a week!!! Once they've carried out the assessment, they only have to decide if there is anything that should be done. (They could do what's in the next paragraph). At the 80dB stage they do not even have to supply PPE. It's mad giving bar staff ear-plugs. They have enough trouble hearing customers in a packed pub anyway, without someone sticking a foam plug in their ears to make life more difficult. They can't all lip read. The simplest answer is to rotate the staff, so that they get a comfort/noise break, perhaps every hour and go to a quiet place in the building for 10-15 minutes and or go and do other work elsewhere in the pub. Balcro. Edited March 2, 2009 by Balcro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 [quote name='Balcro' post='423158' date='Mar 2 2009, 01:16 PM']The manager completely misunderstands the law, even as it's written. [u]There is NO H&S law[/u] stating the noise behind the bar cannot exceed 80dB(a). A packed modern pub probably exceeds 80dB without musical eneterainment. It's completely bonkers. 80dB is known as "the first action level". That's the point at which the management of the premises/pub/venue etc., has to carry out an assessment. Nothing more. It doesn't even apply until they get 80dB continuous for 40 hours a week!!! Once they've carried out the assessment, they only have to decide if there is anything that should be done. (They could do what's in the next paragraph). At the 80dB stage they do not even have to supply PPE. It's mad giving bar staff ear-plugs. They have enough trouble hearing customers in a packed pub anyway, without someone sticking a foam plug in their ears to make life more difficult. They can't all lip read. The simplest answer is to rotate the staff, so that they get a comfort/noise break, perhaps every hour and go to a quiet place in the building for 10-15 minutes and or go and do other work elsewhere in the pub. Balcro.[/quote] Wot 'e said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 [quote name='Balcro' post='423158' date='Mar 2 2009, 01:16 PM']It's mad giving bar staff ear-plugs. They have enough trouble hearing customers in a packed pub anyway, without someone sticking a foam plug in their ears to make life more difficult. They can't all lip read. The simplest answer is to rotate the staff, so that they get a comfort/noise break, perhaps every hour and go to a quiet place in the building for 10-15 minutes and or go and do other work elsewhere in the pub. Balcro.[/quote] I can only speak for myself here but I have worked behind a bar in a live music venue with earplugs in and had little trouble hearing customers. It's no more difficult with plugs in as it is with them out - the attenuation applied by the plugs applies universally, you hear everything the same as you would, only quieter. The customer's voice is drowned out to the same degree by the music with or without plugs. You still have to lean over the bar and cup your hand to your ear. You may well have a different experience from your times behind a bar and I respect that, but I don't take kindly to a blanket declaration of something being "mad" when I for one have found it beneficial and have the experience which backs that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmansky Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 we had this in a pub before we even started to set up.the manager said "keep the noise down tonight because we had a loud band here last week"why didnt he tell them there and then to turn down?the stage is only a few yards from the bar so what does he expect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Landlords aint what they used to be...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcro Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 [quote name='neepheid' post='423229' date='Mar 2 2009, 02:21 PM']I can only speak for myself here but I have worked behind a bar in a live music venue with earplugs in and had little trouble hearing customers. It's no more difficult with plugs in as it is with them out - the attenuation applied by the plugs applies universally, you hear everything the same as you would, only quieter. The customer's voice is drowned out to the same degree by the music with or without plugs. You still have to lean over the bar and cup your hand to your ear. You may well have a different experience from your times behind a bar and I respect that, but I don't take kindly to a blanket declaration of something being "mad" when I for one have found it beneficial and have the experience which backs that up.[/quote] Hi neepheid, I intended that to read as "mad" from the management point of view. Perhaps I should rephrase the original to say "[u]on its own[/u], simply telling the staff to use ear plugs, is not the best solution". If the ear plugs worked for you, great. I haven't worked behind a bar, but I have been party to framing a noise control policy in a club after the bar staff, not the management, rejected the idea of using ear plugs. Balcro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvetkevorkian Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 [quote name='Balcro' post='423529' date='Mar 2 2009, 06:56 PM']Hi neepheid, I intended that to read as "mad" from the management point of view. Perhaps I should rephrase the original to say "[u]on its own[/u], simply telling the staff to use ear plugs, is not the best solution". If the ear plugs worked for you, great. I haven't worked behind a bar, but I have been party to framing a noise control policy in a club after the bar staff, not the management, rejected the idea of using ear plugs. Balcro.[/quote] I would guess most of them never tried it. Mr Heid is spot on in his assessment, IME as an ex bar worker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 [quote name='andrewrx7' post='422913' date='Mar 2 2009, 09:34 AM']I would guess that if the 80dB level behind the bar is actively enforced, then there will be a fair few places simply giving up live music.[/quote] Which seems to be what the Government wants for some reason! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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