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Hutton

Ohms and Wattage help please.

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I currently use a Mesa Boogie Walkabout Scout 1X12 of which I am very fond. It fulfils most of my requirements. However, it may be that I will need some more volume at a future date. The good thing is that the Mesa Head is able to be used with a separate cab. The amp is 300w @ 4ohms and 165w @ 8ohms. As I am a bit thick in terms of ohms and the like, I am looking for advice and recommendations as to what cabs would give me more volume than the 1X12 Mesa cab which also has a passive thingy on the base of the cab to accentuate the bass output. Thanks in advance! 

Edited by Hutton

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The obvious answer is that Mesa made matching 1x12" extension cabs that paired with the combo. Long discontinued but worth mentioning.

 

You'll struggle to find cabs that use a passive radiator like the Mesa combo you already have does. They're not commonly used but don't worry about this.

 

Do you know what impedance the speaker in your combo is? It'll be either 4R or 8R in there already. If it's 4R you'll have to take the amp head out and use an entirely seperate cabinet. If it's 8R you have the option to run both the combo and another cab. Technically, the Walkabout head is unofficially stable down to 2R, but we'll leave that aside for the moment.

 

I'd be looking at a big boy, 4R cabinet if it was me. Then I'd use the combo for small gigs and the head and cab for bigger ones. I think if you like the way the combo sounds then you might enjoy something like a Barefaced 610. Or maybe a Bergantino NV model, they made a few different speaker configurations and I believe most were 4R.

Edited by Jack
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52 minutes ago, Hutton said:

 I am looking for advice and recommendations as to what cabs would give me more volume than the 1X12 Mesa cab

Unless you go to a horn loaded woofer, probably none. Getting more output isn't so much about watts as it is about speaker sensitivity. To get significantly more sensitivity you need to use two cabs, preferably identical. I can't say if you can get a matching cab for your existing cab.

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1 minute ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Unless you go to a horn loaded woofer, probably none. Getting more output isn't so much about watts as it is about speaker sensitivity. To get significantly more sensitivity you need to use two cabs, preferably identical. I can't say if you can get a matching cab for your existing cab.

Bill I understand your point (and I'm already nervous about disagreeing with you!) but are you really suggesting that something much bigger with many more drivers like the Barefaced 610 I mentioned in my above post woun't be significantly louder? Not only will it be able to take the full output of the head without breaking a sweat but it'll be more sensitive, voiced more aggressively and closer to the OP's ears.

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My Walkabout Scout is not able to be paired up with the mesa extension cab. I would need to take out the head and use it with a separate cab. I was really wanting to know if this can  me more volume depending on the cab.

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3 minutes ago, Hutton said:

My Walkabout Scout is not able to be paired up with the mesa extension cab. I would need to take out the head and use it with a separate cab. I was really wanting to know if this can  me more volume depending on the cab.

Of course it can, cabs have a wide range of efficiencies though you won't get cheap, light and loud all in the same package. Try and find out the sensitivity (usually measured in db/W) if your original speaker is a fairly typical 95db/W then you should be able to find something that will be significantly louder. Don't get too hung up on sheer volume though any new speaker is going to change the sound you like so make sure you try anything with your amp before parting with your cash.

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Walkabout user here (the 15 combo rather than the 12 combo). 

Rather than an extension cabinet, I would just get a larger cabinet like a 4x10 or 2x12. A larger cabinet makes a big difference, so long it has a decent power rating and the speaker sensitivity is decent. It takes about two minutes to remove the head from the combo. Finding a matching 12 inch Mesa Scout Radiator cabinet can be difficult (and expensive). Finding a separate, larger cabinet will be a lot easier. 

I have a Mesa 6x10 which is complete overkill, however when I run that with the Walkabout I never run into problems of not being loud enough. However, an 800 watt class D amp through a Barefaced 2x12 will be 'louder' and more portable than the Walkabout plus big cab set up. So if your set up needs to be incredibly loud, have tonnes of clean headroom and be very portable then the Walkabout is maybe not the ideal amp. 

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3 hours ago, Jack said:

Bill I understand your point (and I'm already nervous about disagreeing with you!) but are you really suggesting that something much bigger with many more drivers like the Barefaced 610 I mentioned in my above post woun't be significantly louder? Not only will it be able to take the full output of the head without breaking a sweat but it'll be more sensitive, voiced more aggressively and closer to the OP's ears.

What's the sensitivity of the 610? What's the sensitivity of a pair of the Mesa 112? What's the displacement limited power handling of both? There is an answer to your question, but it needs hard data to calculate, which probably isn't available. I would imagine that a pair of the Mesa would handle 300w, and stacked vertically they wouldn't necessarily be too low, though I'd probably tilt the upper cab up to better hear the mids.

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It’s all too complicated. I think I’ll just buy a more powerful combo. Thanks everybody.

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Bad decision. Once again, it's not about watts. You've got a perfectly good amp, you just need a second speaker to get out of it what it can give. A second identical speaker will give you 6dB higher sensitivity. The result is the same as increasing power by a factor of four. It's not at all complicated, you just need to learn how gear works. Remember, you're the bass player. That makes you the smart one in the band. 😉

Edited by Bill Fitzmaurice
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18 minutes ago, Hutton said:

It’s all too complicated. I think I’ll just buy a more powerful combo. Thanks everybody.

Get an Eden Metro 210 combo and if neccessary, add another 210 cabinet. Weighty but a joy to play through and LOUD.

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1 hour ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Bad decision. Once again, it's not about watts. You've got a perfectly good amp, you just need a second speaker to get out of it what it can give. A second identical speaker will give you 6dB higher sensitivity. The result is the same as increasing power by a factor of four. It's not at all complicated, you just need to learn how gear works. Remember, you're the bass player. That makes you the smart one in the band. 😉

 I hear exactly what you are saying Bill. However, I did say that I had no clue about this sort of thing hence my initial post. I can't add the Mesa 1X12 extension cab as my combo is 4ohms rated and not the 8ohms version. If it was the 8ohms version I would quite happily add the extension cab. Therefore, what can I do to achieve to get greater volume. Please remember I am dense about abs and sensitivity etc.

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1 hour ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

You've got a perfectly good amp, you just need a second speaker to get out of it what it can give. A second identical speaker will give you 6dB higher sensitivity

The problem with this...

6 hours ago, Hutton said:

My Walkabout Scout is not able to be paired up with the mesa extension cab. I would need to take out the head and use it with a separate cab

..is that.

 

@Hutton fwiw like I mentioned before, most people actually seem cool with using the Walkabout down to 2R. Whilst I'm sure that it's not recommended, you might actually be able to use another cabinet with your combo. I said before the best bet was likely to track down a matching extension speaker. Whilst you still could, I'm pretty sure that any extension cabinet made for the Walkabout Scout will be 8R, then you run into things like the power not being split evenly, blah blah blah. You could try to source a matching(ish) Mesa 2x12" cabinet that was 4R. Then you'd have three Mesa 12" speakers getting about 100W or so each. But then you're back at the technically-not-ok-2R thing. And to top it all off, it's not really matching is it? They're the same brand and driver size but that means squat.

 

I think you're onto the right track: Find a big, old school cabinet that most people can't be bothered to use any more and cart it out the few times you actually need it and use the combo the rest of the time.

Edited by Jack
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6 minutes ago, Hutton said:

I can't add the Mesa 1X12 extension cab as my combo is 4ohms rated and not the 8ohms version.

The amp is 4 ohm rated? Or the speaker is 4 ohms?

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1 hour ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

A second identical speaker will give you 6dB higher sensitivity

I think the issue is that the cab which comes as part of the Walkabout Scout system is already 4 ohms.  Therefore a second cab cannot be used without taking the amp below the official minimum of 4 ohms.

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5 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

The amp is 4 ohm rated? Or the speaker is 4 ohms?

Here is the blurb from the manual:-

The WalkAbout provides two 1/4 inch speaker jacks for powering speaker enclosures.The recommended speaker load impedance for the WalkAbout is 4 Ohms, at which the mighty SIMUL STATE power section is capable of delivering

a whopping 300 watts RMS before clip and peaks of over 400 watts!

A speaker load of 8 Ohms may also be used though the overall power will be reduced to roughly 150 watts using this rate of impedance.

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2 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

I think the issue is that the cab which comes as part of the Walkabout Scout system is already 4 ohms.  Therefore a second cab cannot be used without taking the amp below the official minimum of 4 ohms.

This is indeed the problem. 

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10 minutes ago, jrixn1 said:

I think the issue is that the cab which comes as part of the Walkabout Scout system is already 4 ohms.  Therefore a second cab cannot be used without taking the amp below the official minimum of 4 ohms.

They were definitely made with both.

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31 minutes ago, Jack said:

They were definitely made with both.

They were indeed. The combo could be bought with an 8ohm cab so that the walkabout extension cab (also 8 ohms) could be added with no problems. Most scouts however came with the 4ohm cab.

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3 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

You need to find out what impedance your speaker is. If it's 4 ohms you can't add another to it. If it's 8 ohms you may.

Mine is 4ohms which is why I started the thread by asking advice on what cab(s) I could use with the head on its own which would give more volume.

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To repeat what's been said above, you can use the Walkabout at 2ohms, or at least a lot of people (check TB) appear to have done so without blowing up their amps. The main problem however would be finding the matching cab do do it with these days!

I used a Walkabout combo with the matching 12" cab at an outdoor gig once and it was monstrously loud, although it took quite a lot of EQing - pushing the mids a bit and rolling of the bass - to get it there. I then used the same EQ with just the combo a couple of weeks later and it seemed pretty much the same volume wise! Go figure. 

So, some suggestions

  1. Post in items wanted for an 8ohm Walkabout cab and hope that two come up :)
  2. Post in items wanted for a 4ohm Walkabout cab and cross you fingers when you use your rig at 2ohms
  3. Have a very good play with the EQ on the combo to see whether you can overcome what I realised was quite a farty tone from the Walkabout when really pushed without the bass rolled off (to be honest, I'm not sure the radiator helps when the unit is being really pushed)
  4. Get a Barefaced 2x10 or 2x12 and realise how much louder and lighter they are than the Walkabout cabs
  5. Use PA support

I won't be offended if you reject al of the above mate, good luck :)

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I'm using my Walkabout Scout head with a 2x12 4Ohm EBS Neo cabinet. It's impressively loud and relatively portable, and sounds great with the EQ more--or-less flat. Any decent 2x12 should work well.

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Posted (edited)
On 25/02/2020 at 17:54, Beedster said:

To repeat what's been said above, you can use the Walkabout at 2ohms, or at least a lot of people (check TB) appear to have done so without blowing up their amps. The main problem however would be finding the matching cab do do it with these days!

...........

  good luck :)

Good luck is what you'll need if you try to run a WA at 2Ω. You'll get away with it - until you don't. You will eventually kill the amp.

Some folk will swap out a combo's driver to get every last watt the amplifier is capable of. In actuality the difference in volume between an 8Ω load and a 4Ω one is barely noticeable.  To get twice as loud by increasing power would require that power to be ten times larger.

Edited by BassmanPaul

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