elephantgrey Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 [quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1487933796' post='3244255'] elephantgrey - I note you are not tempted to upgrade your Zoom MS 60B for the B3n? Must admit, I very much am thinking of doing so with mine - I suspect the B3n will be a much more stage friendly device than the MS 60B? [/quote] Well I use my ms60b basically exclusively for always on time effects (equipment, preamp, noise gate, amp/cab SIM) as part of a board. The only need I'd have for the b3n would be modulation/looper, and I use midi to sync up all my time based effects. If it had midi, I'd probably get one for both my boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 elephantgrey - sounds good. You're definitely encouraging to have another look at my MS60B. Do you have / can you provide a link to you using yours? Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 [quote name='elephantgrey' timestamp='1488117936' post='3245957'] Well I use my ms60b basically exclusively for always on time effects (equipment, preamp, noise gate, amp/cab SIM) as part of a board. The only need I'd have for the b3n would be modulation/looper, and I use midi to sync up all my time based effects. If it had midi, I'd probably get one for both my boards. [/quote] I'm using an external box that allows patch selection via MIDI. I didn't need any other options, but being able to tap 1 button to go straight to a patch is pretty important. There's a good chance I'd be able to use the same controller for the B3n too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimfist Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 I'll do my best to keep this brief....but afraid it won't be (apologies) I own and have gigged the B3 for quite a few years, and though I appreciate the feature set dedicated to bassists, there are two things that I could never get past: the limited 3 button footswitch design, and the fact that the modeled tones, though respectable for live use, seem to my ears to be lacking in depth and definition compared to the better (more expensive) modelers I own or have owned. No knock really on the B3...fantastic at its price point. When the G5n guitar processor was introduced last year, I took a chance on it. The footprint is significantly larger than the B3, but not terribly huge, and well worth it considering how much more functionality/switching you get on the G5n. The big downside is that the G5n isn't geared specifically toward bassists, as is the new B3n (which I will own). I've punted, but been quite pleased using the HiWatt amp/cab sims for bass. Not a bad tone/vibe for bass at all, though quite midrange present. Anyone who is pre-disposed to consider the new "n" series of pedal products to simply be an upgrade built upon what was established with the B3/B1Xon and the G5/G3 may or may not be thrilled with these new pedals. They really are conceived to be different conceptually, once you get beyond the obvious similarities. The "n" series is all about the upgrade in quality of the modeling across the board, and the algorithms have been re-worked from the ground up...all about speed and simplicity (WYSIWYG)...all about added capacity having up to 7 effect slots. Having had time programming guitar sounds on the AxeFxII, I can vouch for the quality of the G5n guitar modeling and cab sims. Absolutely different leagues no doubt, but I've heard worse amp models in more expensive pieces of gear. Again, at this price point, G5n models are not too shabby, and (at least to my ears) contain more depth and detail in the amps, cabs, and drives compared to previous iterations and other modelers in the low price range. Yes, they've ditched the XLR. They've also changed the "global" feature of the Looper and Rhythm modules. Instead, now, each is considered an insert effect within a patch, so you can't change patches with the looper/rhythm modules running and have them continue in the fashion they do with the B3. However, since you have a total of 7 slots maximum, you still have 5 slots left for "stomp" mode effects. Little consolation to Looper fans, I'm sure. I suggest that you consider the B3n for the improvements in quality of the amp/cab/fx models, for the extra switches, and the extra fx slots. If you're wildly happy with the B3 and also rely on its built-in XLR, then the trade-off in sound quality and extra fx slots may not be worth it to you. Speaking for myself, I will generally only be using the B3n for its Amp/Cab simulation and tonal/dynamic post-processing, and I'm excited to hear what the new amp algorithms sound like, as well as what ZOOM will be offering for future (downloadable) amps/cabs/fx. For many gigs, it will be used in conjunction with my G5n (which will provide the stomp effects...up to 9) when I need the flexibility of sounds. For simpler gigs which require little in the way of changing sounds and effects, I'll be using the B3n by itself. My road-worn B3 will be designated for home and backup duty. A note about the XLR (or lack thereof) and how I personally am not bothered by this...I use only Full-Range cabinets for stage, thus my tones are fully baked with amp/cab modeling, and crafted to suit the needs of FOH. To account for stage acoustics, I run my pedals into the front end of a GK 1001RBII, and pull my FOH DI feed from its DI output, set to take the signal PRE the GK's preamp. I then use the tone controls on the GK to tailor the tone to my liking according to the needs of the stage, independent of the FOH feed. Over the years, this is what I've found to work best for me. A simple power amp with no tone capabilities means you only get "volume up" or "volume down", which is a bit stifling, especially when all you want to do is lop a few dB off of the high or low end bands, for example. Again, sorry for the long post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Hey Jimfist that is massively helpful and thanks very much for taking the time to share that. Currently I have a Zoom MS60B and was thinking of replacing it with the Zoom B3n (£170). Sounds like from what you are saying, if I am going for only one multi FX pedal I should actually be thinking of the Zoom g5n (£250), even though the g5n is a guitar rather than bass focussed pedal? Have you also tried out the Line 6 Pod HD500X (£400)? If so, how does that compare to the Zoom g5n? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimfist Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 [quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1488751772' post='3251571'] Hey Jimfist that is massively helpful and thanks very much for taking the time to share that. Currently I have a Zoom MS60B and was thinking of replacing it with the Zoom B3n (£170). Sounds like from what you are saying, if I am going for only one multi FX pedal I should actually be thinking of the Zoom g5n (£250), even though the g5n is a guitar rather than bass focussed pedal? Have you also tried out the Line 6 Pod HD500X (£400)? If so, how does that compare to the Zoom g5n? [/quote] I like that the G5n is a smaller footprint than the Pod HD, and the B3n even smaller, but more importantly that I can choose to use one or the other, or both, depending on my needs (stage size, tone/fx demands). Certainly the HD is a great value for the money these days, and this line of ZOOM products can't touch it in terms of programmability, physical I/O, MIDI implementation, contollers, etc. If those were great concerns for me then I'd bypass the HD series altogether and either look at the Helix or Fractal Audio FX8 or AX8 (I'm also an AxeFXII owner). Sonically, I'd say the guitar amp/cab models in the G5n are easily on par with the HD, but some may argue with that (all subjective). The G5n models are definitely improved from the G3/G5 Zoom modelers IMHO. The G5n is pure serial signal path, but allows for up to 9 effects blocks (amp models eat up TWO unit/slots, though), and is dead simple to use. It is really easy to tweak live (important for me), and you can master the logic to creating patches with very little diving into the manual. The switching on the G5n is improved (dedicated tap tempo and tuner), though in STOMPBOX mode, you need to use L/R scroll buttons that allow you to fully navigate across the signal chain. This isn't a big deal for me as it's easy enough to do, even with my two left feet. In MEMORY (Preset) mode, you have 4 patches available per bank, with dedicated Bank UP/Down buttons. Though I've enjoyed the G5n for bass, I stop short of offering up the sentiment that any bassist would be happy with it. The fact that it CAN be used for bass doesn't necessarily mean that you'll really love it for bass. We were hoping that the bass amp/cab models from the B3n would also be made available in the G5n/G3n, but they will not, understandably so. And no "B5n" version is coming. Where some may get stuck is the fact that everything in the G5n is sort of "tuned" to apply to 6string guitar, rather than bass. Depending on the effect or process, this may or may not matter as there is a broad enough range across these effects to allow for adjustment that handles bass needs well enough. However, things like the Graphic EQ, Wah pedals, Drives, Compressors, pitch shifters, etc. might not be your cup of tea for bass, but are spot-on for guitar. Also, guitarists don't lean on the all-important "MIX/BLEND" feature that exists on most of the B3/B3n bass effects. In closing, here is a signal flow of my larger pedalboard setup, used when I want everything at my disposal. I've added the Iron Ether Divaricator to this setup, which acts as a bass frequency preservation device, using a variable crossover and remixer (hi/low levels) so that only the hi freqs above the crossover point get sent to the G5n front-end virtual stompboxes. Low end below x-over freq stays intact, both low and high get re-mixed for balance and then it all gets sent to the B3 (soon to be B3n) for amp/cab modeling and final compression/limiting. This is sent to my GK head where it goes to FOH via the XLR DI output (describe previously). Thus, the IE Divaricator helps the G5n "see" a limited (low end) frequency range that is closer to that of a guitar, and so the effects tend to behave better for bass this way. YMMV. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 (edited) Hey Jimfist thanks once more for that very thought through response. My takeaway from your response is that the B3n as a dedicated bass multi FX is the one I should be going for, if I am getting just one multi FX pedal, given price point and dedicated targeting of bass rather than guitar. Edited March 6, 2017 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimfist Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 [quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1488800917' post='3251807'] Hey Jimfist thanks once more for that very thought through response. My takeaway from your response is that the B3n as a dedicated bass multi FX is the one I should be going for, if I am getting just one multi FX pedal, given price point and dedicated targeting of bass rather than guitar. [/quote] The G5n will give you more flexibility for the extra cost (USB audio I/O, expression pedal built-in, etc.) but whether it suits anyone's needs adequately as an all-in-one bass processor is a terribly subjective thing. It works for me, but I do miss the dedicated bass amp models, especially the SVT, which has always been my "go-to" bass amp model. I'd say that the primary advantage of the B3n is that it is targeted specifically at bassists, and of course, it costs less. For bassists, that's quite an important difference, but operationally, and in terms of overall features and setting aside the fact it is a guitar-based unit, the G5n is a much more appealing physical platform. This is why I'm lamenting ZOOM's decision to NOT offer a B5n version. The B3n alone would only work for me in a limited capacity, and not for all gigs. But that's just me. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 (edited) Again thank you for your comments jimfist. I guess I've not been particularly looking out for bass amp emulation - been content with the relatively clean palette that my Markbass offers (plus VPF mid scoop) at gigs as the starting point, but this perhaps REMOVES a key benefit of the B3n over the G5n from what you are saying? For me the key effects / functions I'm looking for are: Octave with good tracking down, Tremolo, Compressor, Tuner, Synth and Distortion. I'm guessing / hoping (!) the B3n does these all reasonably well and the three pedal set up allows them to be easily accessed? Edited March 6, 2017 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimfist Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 [quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1488824214' post='3252128'] Again thank you for your comments jimfist. I guess I've not been particularly looking out for bass amp emulation - been content with the relatively clean palate that my Markbass offers (plus VPF mid scoop) at gigs as the starting point, but this perhaps REMOVES a key benefit of the B3n over the G5n from what you are saying? For me the key effects / functions I'm looking for are: Octave with good tracking down, Tremolo, Compressor, Tuner, Synth and Distortion. I'm guessing / hoping (!) the B3n does these all reasonably well and the three pedal set up allows them to be easily accessed? [/quote] Cool. If you're not expecting to use amp modeling and cab sims, then you should be in good shape. I think that the B3n is ideally implemented in a few ways for performance: [list] [*]amp/cab modeling (these eat up 3 of the 7 possible available slots) with very limited effect/tone changes in Stompbox mode [*]used in patch/preset (Memory) mode when you need to initiate a lot of simultaneous changes in effects or tones [*]used in Stompbox mode without amp/cab simulations to take advantage of all 7 fx slots, as a front-end virtual stompbox [/list] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyclaret Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 [quote name='NoirBass' timestamp='1488093049' post='3245684'] +1 on the POD HD500x. The modelling is excellent. Whilst the Zoom is good, the POD is in a different league. - you do need the bass expansion pack though. [/quote] Mmm... lot of floor space needed here. I do like the idea of everything having its own dedicated stomp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) Cheers jimfist. Right, I will get myself a B3n ordered as soon as they come back into stock! Edited March 7, 2017 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Just pulled the trigger on a B3n from Gear4music! They're a bit more expensive than from Thomann UK but G4m currently have in stock, unlike Thomann. Looking forward to spending some time familiarising myself with the pedal when it arrives next week. Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) [s]In stock here [url="http://www.cranes.co.uk/zoom-b3n-bass-guitar-multi-effects-processor"]http://www.cranes.co...fects-processor[/url] for £169 inc shipping (sorry Al Krow, perhaps you could cancel G4M order and get one of these)[/s] cheeky b******* don't have it in stock at all, altho it clearly states it does on the website Edited March 10, 2017 by steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardH Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) [quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1489139095' post='3254615'] Just pulled the trigger on a B3n from Gear4music! They're a bit more expensive than from Thomann UK but G4m currently have in stock, unlike Thomann. Looking forward to spending some time familiarising myself with the pedal when it arrives next week. Al [/quote] Hmmm - they are now showing it as "available for order" - so I suspect it is not actually in stock. I don't think anyone has it yet - not shipping til later in the month. Happy to be proved wrong though - I see it is showing estimated delivery 15th March - I had the 24th in my head for some reason. Sounds like they are starting to land... Edited March 10, 2017 by RichardH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 [quote name='RichardH' timestamp='1489167561' post='3254953'] Hmmm - they are now showing it as "available for order" - so I suspect it is not actually in stock. I don't think anyone has it yet - not shipping til later in the month. Happy to be proved wrong though - I see it is showing estimated delivery 15th March - I had the 24th in my head for some reason. Sounds like they are starting to land... [/quote] according to Cranes, it's now not available till early April Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apeneck Sweeney Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 [quote name='RichardH' timestamp='1489167561' post='3254953'] Hmmm - they are now showing it as "available for order" - so I suspect it is not actually in stock. I don't think anyone has it yet - not shipping til later in the month. Happy to be proved wrong though - I see it is showing estimated delivery 15th March -[b] I had the 24th in my head for some reason[/b]. Sounds like they are starting to land... [/quote] Thomann have it down as Mar 24th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 A little birdy suggests that we're looking at closer to the end of the month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Dood - you have a reliable little birdy! I got an email last night from Gear4Music saying that delivery of the B3n had been delayed! So I called them this morning to explain I had only paid them a £25 premium over Thomann as they said they had it in stock. They were really good about it and have price matched Thomann and will chase up their supplier for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimfist Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 The B3n has finally landed here in the USA and orders are being shipped (mine included ). I'd expect you'll start to see more reviews in the next days and weeks to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isteen Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I look forward to hear their Darkglass versions of B3k and B7k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 [quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1489484345' post='3257261'] Dood - you have a reliable little birdy! I got an email last night from Gear4Music saying that delivery of the B3n had been delayed! So I called them this morning to explain I had only paid them a £25 premium over Thomann as they said they had it in stock. They were really good about it and have price matched Thomann and will chase up their supplier for me. [/quote] I've not heard that the UK distributor even has them yet, but that said, I've not asked recently..lol... I do know, as JimFist has rightly pointed out, the US do have theirs shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apeneck Sweeney Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I emailed Zoom UK last week and they told me it will be out here in the first week of April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyclaret Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 [quote name='isteen' timestamp='1490888444' post='3268849'] I look forward to hear their Darkglass versions of B3k and B7k [/quote] Very interested in this too, on line demos don't sound far off. The B3k is my favourite od by far, will need some convincing to get the old boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Now available at Thomann, unless I bought the last one. Free shipping if you buy something else for one euro. As my Kinsman stool is falling apart, I took the opportunity to buy a replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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