Naetharu Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1450268605' post='2931152'] He's actually missing out a lot on what his sound could be. Mids (especially the higher mids) assuming he's playing a few solos, will improve all the harmonics, especially if he's using single coils. From what you describe, it sounds like he'd have a better sound with everything flat [/quote] There is certainly a degree of that going on here too. I think it stems from him being quite immature: he's still in the school of thought where he is too cool to wear ear protection etc. I doubt I can handle another couple of sessions with this so I think something is going to have to give. I appreciate that it is nice to be able to shape your tone but any musician should be considerate with their tone, not simply plonk it in regardless of context and ruin the mix for everyone else concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I'd have walked at 'solid state Marshall'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1450269116' post='2931165'] Anyone, bassist included, who talks about 'my tone' in that way ... bye bye [/quote] [quote name='acidbass' timestamp='1450269390' post='2931171'] +1. Selfish. [/quote] I dunno I beg to differ... I have a preferred sound for my bass, which I adjust slightly depending on the other instruments I'm playing with. I have, on occassion been asked to change from a tone I think works to one a guitarist wants me to have so he cuts through on top of everything making the band sound worse as a whole. I'd prefer to stand my ground than relent and end up with the band sounding crap. I also take this approach with the bass lines I write... I will listen to suggestions but at the end of the day it's my choice what I play. If others don't like it then we can go our seperate ways and they can just find someone who does what they want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='hairychris' timestamp='1450269918' post='2931184'] Having spent a lot of time in 2 guitar bands as a guitarist, I always found the guitars sit better with one more mid-focused, and the other slightly scooped. Note: slightly, as in just for emphasis, and preferably following the amp's strengths (Marshall JCM800 and Mesa Dual Rectifier is a fantastic combination, for example). [/quote] This. My main band has a one guitarist into a JCM800 head, into a full-sized 4x12" cab with a scooped tone, and another guitarist with a Peavey ValveKing MkII head into a 4x12" extension cab (smaller enclosure) with a lot more mids. They work really well together, and there's [i]just[/i] enough room for me to poke through with a dirty/clanky jazz bass. Took us a while to find what worked though, so if your guitarist is prepared to listen to suggestions bear in mind that it might take a couple of rehearsals (and even gigs) to find the solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naetharu Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1450271314' post='2931202'] This. My main band has a one guitarist into a JCM800 head, into a full-sized 4x12" cab with a scooped tone, and another guitarist with a Peavey ValveKing MkII head into a 4x12" extension cab (smaller enclosure) with a lot more mids. They work really well together, and there's [i]just[/i] enough room for me to poke through with a dirty/clanky jazz bass. Took us a while to find what worked though, so if your guitarist is prepared to listen to suggestions bear in mind that it might take a couple of rehearsals (and even gigs) to find the solution. [/quote] Aye, this is basically what I have been trying to get across. The point being he needs to dial in his tone in the context of the band. Right now he treats the EQ like his own personal candy shop and everyone elses sound be damned. Anyhow, I'm sure that it'll come to be solved one way or another... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Horrid scoopy tone = knob. Refusal to compromise for the sake of overall band sound = complete knob. "Too cool for earplugs" = [u][b]idiot[/b][/u] (and complete total and utter knob). What do your bandmates think? Does it get on their nerves too, or is it just you? If it's just you, do they know that it's pissing you off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Always tricky as people very often end up playing with that tone as it all they can play with... so the technical element trumps all else. It is the whole bands responsibility to sort out the mix and this is not really something someone can abstain from... Have to say, Gtrs are often the worst here...which is why they hate keys as there is no way around that problem..bar not have them in the band. I'd record it..and have a band meet and see if that brings things to a head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) [quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1450253397' post='2930870'] It's difficult isn't it, but it really does come down to deciding if you can put up with it or not. People are unlikely to change their opinions and arguing with them just flares up the ego and makes it even less likely they will change. I'd just leave... But if you really like the band then you'll have to put up with it. It's about finding a band where everyones idea of what their instruments should sound like works together. If someone told me to change my bass tone away from one I though sounded better I wouldn't, and if they insisted then I'd leave and they can find someone else who sounds the way they want. The last thing you want is to be performing in front of people with a sound you think is s**t... [/quote] That is exactly why gtrs drive most bands...because they think they are more important than that... Them deciding what tone is best for you/us is also one reason why I can't really go for 3 piece bands because that perpetuates this sort of stuff...and panders to their desire to fill everything with everything. I've been very lucky to have a few gtrs who will colour over the foundations I lay, not compete with them. Edited December 16, 2015 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='Mattpt85' timestamp='1450255286' post='2930893'] I had that briefly with a new guitarist. I mentioned light heartedly that it sounds a bit heavy metal for what we are playing and luckily he agreed, came back next week with a more acceptable eq setting! Sounds much better. Now I've just got to get him to stop playing the second set on his bloody lead boost channel. [/quote] When they buy a new amp or gtr to fit the band, that is when you have a guy who is listening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1450273419' post='2931228'] That is exactly why gtrs drive most bands...because they think they are more important than that... Them deciding what tone is best for you/us is also one reason[b] why I can't really go for 3 piece bands[/b] because that perpetuates this sort of stuff...and panders to their desire to fill everything with everything. I've been very lucky to have a few gtrs who will colour over the foundations I lay, not compete with them. [/quote] Surely it's worse in four- or five-pieces bands as you've got to deal with two of the buggers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 A bit of mid-range [i]scoopage[/i] is usually a good idea with electric guitars, especially when distorted. By mid-range I mean somewhere around the 400-500Hz mark (so actually upper lows, but meh, you know what I mean). It helps to clear out a lot of the sonic gunge that can make a mix sound 'muddy/muffled'. But of course too much of a scoop and it'll start to sound thin and weak, which if compensated by cranking up the lows/highs even further will begin to sound cack. So I suggest just asking him to dial some of the mids back in and check how it sounds. All under the caveat that this is totally dependant on what the other members of the band are playing; the music in question; the room you're performing in, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1450273658' post='2931231'] Surely it's worse in four- or five-pieces bands as you've got to deal with two of the buggers! [/quote] Picking the players becomes even more critical..but as long as the gtrs don't cringe at the two gtrs idea then at least that is a good sign...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naetharu Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1450273152' post='2931225'] Always tricky as people very often end up playing with that tone as it all they can play with... so the technical element trumps all else. [/quote] I think this is perhaps at th base of the issue. The fellow is a terrible guitar player (I mean aweful, knows no theory and cannot string a melody to save his life) and he uses scooped and over-saturated sounds to mask his bad playing. I guess its driving me crazy since how terrible he sounds is going somewhat un-noticed at practice because his tone is so aweful that it cannot be heard properly. I have a video of him doing a 'solo' toward the end of our last set and I just want to die of embaressment to be honest. He even tries to do some speed tapping...out of key and time...oh help me. I guess I need to get him to get a tone that everyone can hear so we can be more honest about how terrible he sounds. And either work with him to get better (happy to do that provided he puts in the time and effort on his part) or... Edited December 16, 2015 by Naetharu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockfordStone Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1450274479' post='2931246'] I think this is perhaps at th base of the issue. The fellow is a terrible guitar player (I mean aweful, knows no theory and cannot string a melody to save his life) and he uses scooped and over-saturated sounds to mask his bad playing. I guess its driving me crazy since how terrible he sounds is going somewhat un-noticed at practice because his tone is so aweful that it cannot be heard properly. I have a video of him doing a 'solo' toward the end of our last set and I just want to die of embaressment to be honest. He even tries to do some speed tapping...out of key and time...oh help me. I guess I need to get him to get a tone that everyone can hear so we can be more honest about how terrible he sounds. And either work with him to get better (happy to do that provided he puts in the time and effort on his part) or... [/quote] if he is that bad as a player and doesn't know how to use his gear properly.... why is he even in the band i'd have been shot of him by now personally. harsh but it's ruining your enjoyment of the band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1450275366' post='2931259'] if he is that bad as a player and doesn't know how to use his gear properly.... why is he even in the band [b]i'd[/b] [b]have been shot of him[/b] [b]by now[/b] personally. harsh but it's ruining your enjoyment of the band. [/quote] I read that as "I'd have shot him by now".... harsh but fair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockfordStone Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1450275725' post='2931263'] I read that as "I'd have shot him by now".... harsh but fair [/quote] out where i live in the fens that's not an unreasonable action haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjim Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) its hard enough getting a band together/joining one thats productive on any level. although there are more fishes in the sea its not (usually) instant so i do really feel your pain. i put a thread up here a short while ago about a guitarist that has an awful tone/attitude and the gen feeling here from our bass comrades was to get rid. taking into account that some people are totally unapproachable and not easy to talk to and if he is like this then you wont win ever. its gonna be horrible for life. i have reached a compromise with my own situation regarding a guitarist thats not cutting it and it goes like this; i will keep looking around in the background for something else and in the meantime put up with it. if i find another band/guitarist by my self and find my self short of a singer,keys player or drummer i already know a couple of dudes i could ask nudge nudge wink wink and im sure they would be cool with "doing a couple of gigs here and there" and if it escalates into something more so be it. maybe at some point someone gets their feelings hurt but unless you have a lot of choice as to whom you get to play with you are a bit stuck. you can demand he listens and joins in for the greater good but maybe you cant cause the fact is he's a cock. maybe he would like to be better but simply isnt good enough but wont /cant admit it. trouble with bands is, unless very lucky , we all end up with some personality floating around we normally wouldnt put up with in the first place..... i feel your pain Edited December 16, 2015 by bassjim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1450274479' post='2931246'] I think this is perhaps at th base of the issue. The fellow is a terrible guitar player (I mean aweful, knows no theory and cannot string a melody to save his life) and he uses scooped and over-saturated sounds to mask his bad playing. I guess its driving me crazy since how terrible he sounds is going somewhat un-noticed at practice because his tone is so aweful that it cannot be heard properly. I have a video of him doing a 'solo' toward the end of our last set and I just want to die of embaressment to be honest. He even tries to do some speed tapping...out of key and time...oh help me. [/quote] A bad workman always blames his tools. Sounds like you need to move on. Life's too short to play in sh*t bands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hairychris Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1450284678' post='2931371'] A bad workman always blames his tools. Sounds like you need to move on. Life's too short to play in sh*t bands. [/quote] I'd rather put it as life's too short to be in a band with d**kheads. Unless it's paying the rent, that is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonBassAlpha Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Sounds like the chap isn't quite ready for playing in a band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1450274479' post='2931246'] I think this is perhaps at th base of the issue. The fellow is a terrible guitar player (I mean awful, knows no theory and cannot string a melody to save his life) [/quote] Not knowing any theory doesn't necessarily make you a terrible guitar player. Having said that, going by everything else you've said he sounds like a terrible guitar player...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectoremg Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='Number6' timestamp='1450256406' post='2930904'] Our guitarist always asks me if he is too loud and says turn the bass up a bit as he likes to hear the bass in music [/quote]You're making this up right? Pinch yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectoremg Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='bassjim' timestamp='1450279984' post='2931312'] its hard enough getting a band together/joining one thats productive on any level. although there are more fishes in the sea its not (usually) instant so i do really feel your pain. i put a thread up here a short while ago about a guitarist that has an awful tone/attitude and the gen feeling here from our bass comrades was to get rid. taking into account that some people are totally unapproachable and not easy to talk to and if he is like this then you wont win ever. its gonna be horrible for life. i have reached a compromise with my own situation regarding a guitarist thats not cutting it and it goes like this; i will keep looking around in the background for something else and in the meantime put up with it. if i find another band/guitarist by my self and find my self short of a singer,keys player or drummer i already know a couple of dudes i could ask nudge nudge wink wink and im sure they would be cool with "doing a couple of gigs here and there" and if it escalates into something more so be it. maybe at some point someone gets their feelings hurt but unless you have a lot of choice as to whom you get to play with you are a bit stuck. you can demand he listens and joins in for the greater good but maybe you cant cause the fact is he's a cock. maybe he would like to be better but simply isnt good enough but wont /cant admit it. trouble with bands is, unless very lucky , we all end up with some personality floating around we normally wouldnt put up with in the first place..... i feel your pain [/quote]Bands are like omelettes - sometimes you've got to break some eggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1450286982' post='2931402'] Bands are like omelettes - sometimes you've got to break some eggs. [/quote] Sometimes I get a little worried when I number the bands I quit who completely folded a few months later - am I leaving a trail of scrambled egg in my wake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 [quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1450270363' post='2931191'] I dunno I beg to differ... I have a preferred sound for my bass, which I adjust slightly depending on the other instruments I'm playing with. I have, on occassion been asked to change from a tone I think works to one a guitarist wants me to have so he cuts through on top of everything making the band sound worse as a whole. I'd prefer to stand my ground than relent and end up with the band sounding crap. I also take this approach with the bass lines I write... I will listen to suggestions but at the end of the day it's my choice what I play. If others don't like it then we can go our seperate ways and they can just find someone who does what they want [/quote] I take your point but I still want someone who will work with and for the sound of the band and not merely fall back on it's 'my tone'. And if that's not happening then we can go our separate ways and they can just find a band that likes 'my tone'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.