Line 6 Helix.

[fretmeister]

Back to £399

 

I wonder if I had looked at the page before and hadn't cleared cookies

[Bridgehouse]

4 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

Back to £399

 

I wonder if I had looked at the page before and hadn't cleared cookies

I hadn't and it was more this morning...

[Dood]

1 hour ago, fretmeister said:

Back to £399

 

I wonder if I had looked at the page before and hadn't cleared cookies

It was £425 when I looked this am and I've not been to the GG page before. Hmmm.. I really don't need an HX.... 

[Dood]

Thing is, with HX, I really want to understand the signal path better verses the Full Fat version so I can see how well it would integrate in to what I am doing at the moment.

[HazBeen]

1 hour ago, dood said:

Thing is, with HX, I really want to understand the signal path better verses the Full Fat version so I can see how well it would integrate in to what I am doing at the moment.

Ask away Dood

[HazBeen]

On 03/07/2018 at 19:06, dannybuoy said:

Many of you Helix folk tried the Zoom B3n?

I'm pretty impressed with it on the amp/dirt front, it's leaps and bounds ahead of the B3/MS-60B/B1on. I have never been able to get a pleasing fingerstyle overdrive tone out of the SVT / B15 amp models in the Helix, BIAS, or the older Zoom units. I preferred to stick with the VT Bass. I can get some great dirty amp sounds out of the B3n however! Not sure which is the most realistic of course, having never played the real actual amps, but I do know which I prefer playing through.

It also has a Sansamp BDDI model, and a pretty killer envelope filter in the form of the Z-Tron, which I prefer to anything other filter I've found on the modelling front. I also prefer the phasers in the Zoom, and the analog-esque octavers are about on par with each other.

Helix of course wins in plenty of other areas though, flexible routing, analog delays, custom IRs, etc. But for the main FX I use (dirt, filter, phaser), I would be happier with the underdog B3n.

 

I have both the HX and B3n, whilst the B3n is a really good bit of kit for me the HX wins by a country mile for many of the things you indicate already. It also sounds better in my ears, including filters/phasers/chorus/dirt. Parallel signal chain is the key that unlocks the full potential, once you have that under control the B3n gets relegated to home use only. At least it did for me.

But opinions are like @-holes, blah blah.

[Dood]

32 minutes ago, HazBeen said:

Ask away Dood

Thank you!

You mention parallel paths above. Does this mean that you can have either multiple parallel paths in your signal chain, or have multiple effects in a parallel path?  

[Al Krow]

3 hours ago, HazBeen said:

I have both the HX and B3n, whilst the B3n is a really good bit of kit for me the HX wins by a country mile for many of the things you indicate already. It also sounds better in my ears, including filters/phasers/chorus/dirt. Parallel signal chain is the key that unlocks the full potential, once you have that under control the B3n gets relegated to home use only. At least it did for me.

But opinions are like @-holes, blah blah.

The HX is literally three times the price of the B3n. I would certainly want the HX to be the better option at that price differential!

The very fact that we are even engaging in a comparison says something about the value for money of the B3n. 

Edited July 26, 2018 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

The Helix HX is currently "missing":  amp sims, expression pedal, aux in, headphones out and DI out 

For the same price you could pick up a Line 6 HD500X, which has ALL the above... 

...just saying.

[fretmeister]

2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

The Helix HX is currently "missing":  amp sims, expression pedal, aux in, headphones out and DI out 

For the same price you could pick up a Line 6 HD500X, which has ALL the above... 

...just saying.

The HD500X is a country mile behind the HX models though.

[Al Krow]

Just now, fretmeister said:

The HD500X is a country mile behind the HX models though.

Ok thanks - that's kinda what I was hoping you would say.

In which areas in particular?

[fretmeister]

All of it.

 

The HX software models are (IIRC) 4 to 6 times larger than the old tech. Far more detail in the modelling process. Apparently down to modelling each individual component in the signal path rather than just trying to model what comes out of a speaker.

[Musashimonkey]

The Helix is crazy good. Especially the amp sims, the small details make it really emersive..!

[Dood]

Having owned (much like many other BCers) a wide range of line 6 models right from the original Red Bean, I wholeheartedly agree Helix is a huge step forward. A great piece of kit!

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, dood said:

Having owned (much like many other BCers) a wide range of line 6 models right from the original Red Bean, I wholeheartedly agree Helix is a huge step forward. A great piece of kit!

Is there any difference in processing power between the full fat version and the HX, or are they using an identical chip set? 

[HazBeen]

22 hours ago, Al Krow said:

The HX is literally three times the price of the B3n. I would certainly want the HX to be the better option at that price differential!

The very fact that we are even engaging in a comparison says something about the value for money of the B3n. 

The Yamaha (just an example) BBP34 is 3 times the price of a BB434. “Pretty similar” design and both sound good. Point is, you can get to a very decent level at X price point, then laws of diminishing returns kick in. I would still happily pay 3 times more for the improved sound quality, routing options, UI etc on the HX compared to the B3n.....oh I actually did that already

And if I needed amp sims, XLR out and expression pedals I would buy a full fat Helix for 3 times the price of a Helix HX, but I like a separate expression pedal and have my much loved Mesa DI for amp/di to FOH. All things I already owned.

B3n is a great bit of kit, but it is a BB434.

Edited July 27, 2018 by HazBeen

[dannybuoy]

I'd be interested in a Helix if it could sound as good as the Ampeg, Sansamp and Q-Tron models in the Zoom. In my experiments with Helix Native though, I couldn't quite get there!

[HazBeen]

Horses for courses, thankfully or we would all have the same kit.

[Al Krow]

12 minutes ago, HazBeen said:

B3n is a great bit of kit, but it is a BB434.

The BB434 is actually an excellent bass. I'm not sure anyone in the audience would notice if the bassist swapped for a BBP34 (but as the bass player it may put a grin on your face and for that reason alone is justified).

However, a lot of effects (other than compression) are pretty "in your face" and it's relatively easy to tell a crap synth apart from a good synth pedal etc. and if I was paying 3x more for an HX or 9x more for a full fat, I'd really hope to be able to hear the difference, otherwise what's the point? But I think what @fretmeister is saying is that there has been a step up in the Helix from earlier models (and I would hope a step up from the Zoom B3n too - although dannybuoy has thrown out a fair challenge)?

 

[HazBeen]

Just now, Al Krow said:

The BB434 is actually an excellent bass. I'm not sure anyone in the audience would notice if the bassist swapped for a BBP34 (but as the bass player it may put a grin on your face and for that reason alone is justified).

However, a lot of effects (other than compression) are pretty "in your face" and it's relatively easy to tell a crap synth apart from a good synth pedal etc. and if I was paying 3x more for an HX or 9x more for a full fat, I'd really hope to be able to hear the difference, otherwise what's the point? But I think what @fretmeister is saying is that there has been a step up in the Helix from earlier models (and I would hope a step up from the Zoom B3n too - although dannybuoy has thrown out a fair challenge)?

 

That was exactly my point, the BB434 is an excellent bass, as the B3n is a great pedal. You simply have to accept that you pay much more for smaller increments in performance and many people happily do. Therefore comparing a B3n to a Helix is like comparing steak with Kobe beef.... you cannot really compare.

[intime-nick]

1 hour ago, dannybuoy said:

I'd be interested in a Helix if it could sound as good as the Ampeg, Sansamp and Q-Tron models in the Zoom. In my experiments with Helix Native though, I couldn't quite get there!

I have a Helix LT and I can’t / don’t have the patience to get it to sound anything like as good as my old Sansamp BDDI.  The helix is sat in its flightcase unloved at the moment.  Everyone’s sound preference is different of course but I find just about all the amps, preamps, compressors and distortions pretty uninspiring on the Helix.  I’ve also got a B3 and would go for a B3n if they hadn’t removed the balanced DI.

[dannybuoy]

It's worth the upgrade purely for the improved SVT and added B7K, then just add a passive Orchid or Radial DI box and you're set! But you're right, removing the DI + audio interface was a bad move. They did add a headphone amp but it suffers from headroom issues for me and keeps clipping where it shouldn't, so still using the Bighead with it.

[Al Krow]

17 minutes ago, dannybuoy said:

It's worth the upgrade purely for the improved SVT and added B7K, then just add a passive Orchid or Radial DI box and you're set! But you're right, removing the DI + audio interface was a bad move. They did add a headphone amp but it suffers from headroom issues for me and keeps clipping where it shouldn't, so still using the Bighead with it.

And the B3n has other benefits e.g. 

- 3 additional pedals which makes live use even easier in terms of scrolling through patches;

- updated chip set;

- additional effects patches being released (whereas the B3 is no longer being supported). 

I actually find the headphone out to be very good - no complaints from me there (but I've probably got a more sensitive set of cans than DB). 

So the need for something like a Radial DI is the only glaring omission for me. 

BTW @intime-nick it's also really good to hear the "not impressed" comments, to paint a more balanced picture, so thank you. 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Al Krow

[intime-nick]

Don’t get me wrong, the Helix is, in some people’s hands, an amazing bit of kit (in the same way my Kemper was before that).  I’m not a complete novice with multi-effects/ modellers but I’d rather spend time playing than faffing around continuously tweaking.  It does have lots of flashing lights which is always good though 😃

having being around the loop of effects, no effects, effects, no effects, lots of effects, no effects, multi-effects etc etc so many times, I now realise that in the places we play, and the fact that I’m running the band sound, simpler is best

if they made a 1U rack-mount version with a few, more bass specific preamps and less of the clutter, that would be an interesting product (same goes for zoom to be fair) but I guess the market for small rack mount multi-effects / modellers isn’t there anymore.  I could always dig out my old Rocktron Blue Thunder bass multi-effects !

Edited July 27, 2018 by intime-nick

[LukeFRC]

I recently picked up a B3n and did consider saving for a Helix ... the one big advantage I could see other than price was the Helix is a top of the range guitar effects pedal with bass functionality added... where as the B3n models some quite esoteric bass equipment- you get the feeling that someone at Zoom plays bass