Salt on your Bass? Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Hi all, I've played with fuzzes a lot but lately I've found through the pa on my rehearsal settings they all sound like a tin of bees and lose all their umph. I end up totally re-engineering my settings. Can anyone tell me why this is? We rehearse louder than stage volumes. I guess it's tweeter related? Welcome science and experiences if you care to contribute.... Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 hey man, are you di'ing into the pa? i think fuzz sounds so much better through a cab with a mic in front, much less harsh and bee sounding andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 How about a speaker simulator ? I've used an EBS MicroBass II for years to send my overdriven/fuzzy sound to the PA for many years to great success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt on your Bass? Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Yeah I tend to di post eq on my Amp. Mic would be ideal I guess if I have the full rig, but typical gigs I do involve a di to keep changes quick etc. Haven't considered a pedal to support it as I wouldn't expect much difference between that and my di from Amp. Another factor is possibly that I use an active Bass but again I set it up in rehearsal so it sounds big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKcrimsonKing Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 You wouldn't want to send anything distorted into something with tweeters, some kind of cab simulation is a must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerster135 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Might be worth looking at the Palmer PDI-09, great cab sim. I use loads of dirt and put mine between the amp and cab, works great and pretty cheap too. echoing what others have said, fuzz + tweeters = disgusting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt on your Bass? Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 Thanks for the input. I've looked at the pdi09 before. How does a speaker SIM differ to a di then? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.I. Joe Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Does your band run it's own PA at gigs? Try EQ'ing your channel on the desk favourably to your fuzz. Rolling off the treble and maybe the very high mids on the desk would be the best (and cheapest) start to find the solution. Try it at rehearsals first to try and find the sweet spot. Running a little compression should help too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0175westwood29 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 [quote name='Salt on your Bass?' timestamp='1441779793' post='2861612'] Thanks for the input. I've looked at the pdi09 before. How does a speaker SIM differ to a di then? Thanks [/quote] Di is a pretty straight and level signal, the Palmer would be taking the same kind of signal but from between head and cab, but would add an eq that would emulate the input signal going thru say a 412, For me tho if you run the pa your self or always use your gear cab included I'd try and grab a decent drum mic, I've got a couple of akg 112 they cost 90 quid brand new and sound very nice with heavy fuzz sounds. However if you are using your head but a dif cab every gig then the Palmer would be a better choice as you'll know what your getting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt on your Bass? Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 Thanks guys. Not running our own pa - always use house and get varied engineers. Also don't always get to use my own cab which is frustrating but interested in playing a micd cab as I've never done it. I'll probably give the pdi a whirl and see how that fairs - thanks for all the info. Why are fussed bad with too much top? Does it bring out the fuzz element too much or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 yeh if you plug your fuzz pedal into your stereo/computer speakers/studio monitors, you'll hear loads of high end fizz. You're not hearing it from your rig because the cab is filtering that out If you have a decent EQ on your amp, you might be able to EQ out this fizz and just continue as you are. Mine has a graphic which goes up to 12KHz. I have all sliders above 4KHz all the way down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I've used a VT Bass for this in the past, but I prefer the way the Darkglass Vintage Deluxe colours the sound as an amp sim. I've yet to try the Aguilar Tone Hammer for this application, but it also has a high-end roll-off with the AGS engaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorR Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) Surely this all comes down to the physics of electronic distortion? This is super oversimplifying the process but... A fuzz pedal puts lots of clipped harmonics and overtones into the signal/sound. Some of these sound pleasant to the ear, some sound unpleasant. Guitar and bass speakers tend to be designed to filter out the less nice frequencies (initially by accident rather than design). That sweetens the sound up. A straight DI (either from a DI box or out of the back of your amp) doesn't do this. You get the bad and the good. Or at least much more of the bad. Put that through a high fidelity system like a PA and you get loads of the nasty right up, in your face! Fizz city! So that is why products like Sansamp and Palmer include speaker simulators in their DI boxes so that you can get a sound more like going through a bass Amp and speaker - and which filter out the less pleasant sounding harmonics and overtones. It's the same reason you barely see electric guitarists going DI, much of their sound is predicated on the taming effect which a guitar amp speaker has on the distorted sound. A DI from a guitar amp would sound horrendously fizzy when using distortion or overdrive. Might be worth investing in a speaker sim. At our church I run straight into the PA and, even without using any distortion I much prefer the sound of a speaker sim preamp. I use a Tech 21 VT Bass DI. Does that explanation make sense? Edited September 13, 2015 by TrevorR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt on your Bass? Posted September 13, 2015 Author Share Posted September 13, 2015 Yeah useful thanks. I finally get the speaker sim benefits! I don't want to over complicate my set up, but I'm also using a sub - will a sim kill the sub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorR Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Shouldn't do. Most of the feqs being tamed won't really register in the sub range. At worst you might need to tweak your tone settings a smidgen but I think that's not that likely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 If anything the sim will roll off the really deep lows and give your sub an easier time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry-Maq Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I've been trying to get this right for a few years now, with varying degrees of success. I used to use a splitter box into a VTbass and send that to FOH, worked well but it did effect the low end in a way that I couldn't fix (kind of fairly wide cut around the 500Hz region). At the moment I prefer to use the VLE vintage loudspeaker emulator filter on the Markbass LMiii. I use this with the VPF scoop control and works really well, many engineers have complimented the sound. This technique suffers at the hands of the cabinet though, the more full range the cab the better this technique works. I am still searching for the tidiest way to do it, as I personally prefer bass cabinets with no tweeters at all. I am curious to try out the Two-notes audio and AMT electronics impulse response loaders, load in a nice 8x10 and you're rocking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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