using other bands gear...

[Cameronj279]

This is basically a "what would you do" question but needs quite a bit of explaining. Here's my post from Daily Annoyances thread which does so :

Booked for a multi-band gig type thing. Used this 'promoter' before and had no issues. This time however has been quite different. Picked up the tickets for it last week and messaged one of the people working there asking if backline is provided as we were under the impression that it was but weren't 100% sure. Waited 3 days to get a reply that was less than helpful but it basically said "full backline minus breakables provide but can you bring your own guitar and bass amps?". Replied saying no we couldn't but will cabs/drum kit and P.A be provided? to which I still haven't had a reply. So I phoned the events manager today who said backline is to be provided by the bands. None of my band drive so taking gear from one place to another isn't easy (especially if it's cabinets/the guitar amps).

This wouldn't be an issue if any of us drove and had our own gear that was to a standard of being able to be gigged (I don't even have a cab as there's no point when I can't transport it from home to gig!). I'm mostly annoyed at the lack of professionalism by the promoter as the other bands that are on that night were also under the assumption that backline would be provided (one band were even told not to bring any gear!).

No backline being provided for established bands is understandable as they will often be in a position to afford and transport equipment but when it's a gig that's being put on for local/small/unsigned type bands it's almost a given that these bands can't always afford full gigging equipment.

Okay now you've read that the promoter finally replied today simply saying "I'll get another band to supply equipment." But quite frankly I don't really feel comfortable using other bands gear for the same fact I don't feel comfortable other bands using my gear. I certainly don't want to have to allow other bands to use my amp head. Even excluding the fact I don't want to risk other people breaking it, I don't even know if I'll be able to stay in the venue till the other bands are even finished due to bus/train times!

Ideally I don't want to cancel the gig as I think we have quite a few people coming but I don't really feel comfortable with the way it's been conducted. What would you do in my situation?

[Graham]

Use their gear, carefully, and thank them for it

To be honest, I don't really get your position? :s

You don't own your own gear, but equally don't want to use other people's?

My experience of these sorts of gigs is the venue/promoter sorts out the PA and arranges between the band's who's bringing what cabs and everyone brings their own breakables (which of course means different things to different people)

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='Graham' timestamp='1439227381' post='2841055']
Use their gear, carefully, and thank them for it

To be honest, I don't really get your position? :s

You don't own your own gear, but equally don't want to use other people's?


[/quote]

I'm equally confused. You expect the promoter to provide backline but you don't want to use that of another band, and all the time you don't even own your own?!
Gear sharing is pretty much the norm for gigs these days. As a band you need to be in a position to actively take part in the gear share or you will be limiting the gigs you get offered.

[Cameronj279]

I've played maybe 40 odd gigs of this type and never came across gear sharing like this up until now if I'm entirely honest. We were told (all of the bands) when we were booked for the gigs that backline was provided. I don't feel comfortable letting other bands use my amp (due to the number of horror stories I've heard on here). I don't really want to come across as a bit of a dick to the other bands by being happy to use their gear but not let them use mine. There is also the fact that I may not be able to stay until the last band has finished their set due to public transport times. I explained why I don't have my own cab (in short, no way to transport it).

It's the fact that it's 4 days to the gig and the bands are only now finding out that they have to bring their own gear (after being told by the people running the gig that it would be provided.). Whether or not they have/can bring gear I have no idea.

I know I should have my own gear and it's a work-in-progress (none of us drive and thus have no method of transporting it).

Edited August 10, 2015 by Cameronj279

[skankdelvar]

In the medium term I'd learn to drive, make my band mates buy some gigworthy kit and be prepared to share gear if it's offered. Then I'd buy a cheap beater amp head for gigs like this and offer it up if it was needed.

Also, I wouldn't expect a promoter to hire in a full back line for a multi-band local 'unsigned' gig and I would consider being at the mercy of everyone else to supply the means for you to perform as being something of an obstacle to the band's full potential.

Frankly, the promoter is doing what most promoters do which is to be vague and flaky about back line. Most people get over this problem by bringing some kit along and leaving it in the car / van if its not needed. Sadly, this option is not open to you.

Anyway, good luck with the gig. I'm sure it will go fine. :-)

Edited August 10, 2015 by skankdelvar

[Lynottfan]

What would you do? is your question. My answer, you want to play, you want people to turn up and maybe applaud what you are doing, you make sure you have your own gear, all ways, hire it or buy it, but I have all ways held the belief that its your job to turn up and be able to play, if you cant it's no one else's fault but your own.

[Cameronj279]

I agree totally with the "learn to drive and get your own gear" comments which is the plan. I've been unemployed -not through laziness- for the last year so finances haven't been there plus with my age, it'll cost me about £2000 to insure a car worth £1000. Starting a (horribly paid) but full time job next week so it's my first priority.

We weren't expecting them to hire a full back line as we already know they have access to one and we were told it would be there.

[skankdelvar]

Fair do's on the money front. Perhaps you need to fire someone from the band and recruit an individual who has access to a van. It's the time-honoured strategy and works a treat.

Rock and roll is a cruel mistress.

[mrtcat]

Yeah I have to say this is a fairly alien concept to me. From the age of about 14 I used to work my arse off doing paper rounds odd jobs etc to fund basic gear. I always thought that if I wanted to play with a band I'd need an amp etc. As I got older I got better work and so could afford better gear. How do you rehearse?

[Cameronj279]

To clarify (as I'm aware I'm coming across as a bit of an arse with this post) - We never expect a backline to be provided, we always ask. I'm aware it's totally amateurish but up until last month we've all been unemployed students so finances to get a car, insurance and equipment has been pretty much non-existent. However as I've said, getting these things sorted is a priority -hence me finally getting my first amp the other week).

2 of the other members are just about to start jobs as well so it hopefully won't be long until this is no longer an issue.

[Cameronj279]

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1439229594' post='2841101']
How do you rehearse?
[/quote]

Go into a studio that has equipment already set up. I use my own amp but into their cabinet. Drummer uses his own cymbals/kick pedal etc. Singer uses his own mic but the studios own P.A.

[JTUK]

Not sure how viable a gigging band you are atm, tbh... so beggars can't be choosers.

If there are load-in issues then I might make a call..but tbh... over 90% of the time, my gear will be
better for me.... so I have light and heavier rigs to suit the occasion.

If I couldn't load-in myself, I'd have to put up with what was already there...whether I liked it or not..or not take the gig.

[Cameronj279]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1439231420' post='2841125']
Not sure how viable a gigging band you are atm, tbh... so beggars can't be choosers.

If there are load-in issues then I might make a call..but tbh... over 90% of the time, my gear will be
better for me.... so I have light and heavier rigs to suit the occasion.

If I couldn't load-in myself, I'd have to put up with what was already there...whether I liked it or not..or not take the gig.
[/quote]

Indeed. We don't gig very regularly because of this and we wouldn't be doing the gig if we were told the truth by the promoter originally. We know we're not fully gig-ready and because of this we don't look for many gigs (infact we don't look for any gigs, any we've took is ones that we've been offered/asked to play).

[Jazzneck]

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1439229594' post='2841101']
Yeah I have to say this is a fairly alien concept to me. From the age of about 14 I used to work my arse off doing paper rounds odd jobs etc to fund basic gear. I always thought that if I wanted to play with a band I'd need an amp etc. As I got older I got better work and so could afford better gear.
[/quote]

Me too, not only for gear, but for a car as well knowing at the age of 13 it was the only way to go.

[quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1439229670' post='2841105']
To clarify (as I'm aware I'm coming across as a bit of an arse with this post) - We never expect a backline to be provided, we always ask. I'm aware it's totally amateurish but up until last month we've all been unemployed students so finances to get a car, insurance and equipment has been pretty much non-existent. However as I've said, getting these things sorted is a priority -hence me finally getting my first amp the other week).

2 of the other members are just about to start jobs as well so it hopefully won't be long until this is no longer an issue.
[/quote]

How much dosh did you piddle up the wall as a student?

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it's a tough world out here so I suggest you consider your priorities pdq.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Jazzneck

[Cameronj279]

[quote name='Jazzneck' timestamp='1439232153' post='2841136']
Me too, not only for gear, but for a car as well knowing at the age of 13 it was the only way to go.



How much dosh did you piddle up the wall as a student?

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it's a tough world out here so I suggest you consider your priorities pdq.
[/quote]

I only got £300 a month as a student (£100 of which went of travel and the rest on whatever I needed) so not much really!

As I've said a few times. I'm aware that owning a car and own gear is essential and haven't ever denied it. It's just not been viable. I didn't even have a band up until a year-ish ago so it's not like it was even a thought when I was working before I became a student.
We've always been careful so we didn't get into this position (turning down any gig we were unable to do because of it).

None of us are in this band because of the hopes of becoming financially sufficient from it. It's just a hobby for us all really.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Cameronj279

[Jazzneck]

[quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1439232447' post='2841141']
I only got £300 a month as a student (£100 of which went of travel and the rest on whatever I needed) so not much really!

As I've said a few times. I'm aware that owning a car and own gear is essential and haven't ever denied it. It's just not been viable. I didn't even have a band up until a year-ish ago so it's not like it was even a thought when I was working before I became a student.
We've always been careful so we didn't get into this position (turning down any gig we were unable to do because of it).

None of us are in this band because of the hopes of becoming financially sufficient from it. It's just a hobby for us all really.
[/quote]

Cameron, pro rata the same as I had 1967 to 1969 as an indentured apprentice and today good quality gear is about half the equivalent price it was then.
Sixth hand Standard 10 station wagon cost me the equivalent of £600 on the road plus insurance.
Like MrTCat said, I did anything that was legal to earn money (as well as my apprenticeship) to fund my bass playing hobby.
And, yes, it is still a hobby but if I need anything musical today it's got to be funded by my musical hobby.

[Cameronj279]

Insurance roughly £1500 for a car worth £500 is about the best I've been able to find using loads of comparison websites. That'll be doable although not ideal by any means.

As I said, we haven't ever had this issue before and we're all fully aware of the fact we can't be a fully giggable band without these things (hence why we've never claimed to be). And with 3 out of 4 of us becoming employed within the last 2 weeks it shouldn't be too long before that's sorted. At the moment though, things like food and electricity have to be paid before music gear. Having just moved out of the house for the first time as well has been a huge financial drain on me as we got the place and it was completely empty so had to be fully furnished etc.

[Jazzneck]

Go for it Cameron and keep smiling, it'll get better.
I was just winding you up a bit so I could show you that it can be done if you want it.
Best of luck, and as I said - keep smiling.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Jazzneck

[AlexDelores]

In my experience of playing these sort of shows when i was gigging this sounds nothing out of the ordinary. its aggravating as hell but its just the way it goes really.

I always found it was generally the headline band that lent out the majority of the kit i.e drums (except breakables), and amps/cabs.

best bet is just to take your own head if youve got one and ask to run through the cab, if not wouldnt worry, be polite and grateful and generally people are happy to lend kit aslong as you treat it right and dont assume that youll be using it regardless.

A lot of the time wed end up taking full backline and leaving what we didnt need backstage/ in the corner of the club because the promoter was useless.

wouldnt worry too much 90% of the time as it'll all change on the night in terms of gear lending, and being a bass player worst case scenario youll be straight through the PA (which will either lead to an awful night for you or a fantastic sound depending upon the soundguy and rig etc).

I'ts all part of the fun of being in an unsigned band, Embrace it generally (IMO) most promoters havent got a clue, youll suss out the good venues and good promoters and end up cutting out the useless ones.

[AlexDelores]

Also as far as transport goes, rope in your mates, Youll be surprised how much kit you can hang off your body and arms when cramming on to a train!

[Lozz196]

On multi band line-ups it`s virtually a given that there will be gear sharing. Usually one will provide drums, another cabs etc. It`s not fair on one band to have to supply all. Plus, inevitably if the headliners have provided it all, many of the other bands then go home once their set is over. Having a bit from each is a good way of stopping this. The best way is to contact the other bands directly via Facebook and organise it between yourselves. This is what we do, and it works well (well up until now at least).

[Cameronj279]

[quote name='AlexDelores' timestamp='1439236122' post='2841200']
Also as far as transport goes, rope in your mates, Youll be surprised how much kit you can hang off your body and arms when cramming on to a train!
[/quote]

We all have to head to different trains/busses or I would have tried this, guitarist is happy to drag his amp to gigs on bus so it's just really the cabs we won't have!

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1439236269' post='2841205']
On multi band line-ups it`s virtually a given that there will be gear sharing. Usually one will provide drums, another cabs etc. It`s not fair on one band to have to supply all. Plus, inevitably if the headliners have provided it all, many of the other bands then go home once their set is over. Having a bit from each is a good way of stopping this. The best way is to contact the other bands directly via Facebook and organise it between yourselves. This is what we do, and it works well (well up until now at least).
[/quote]

It seems to be a common thing but I've never came across it up until now!

Edited August 10, 2015 by Cameronj279

[smaz]

Yup, the promoter will be unlikely providing the backline - maybe they'll organise a soundguy to do PA, but it's up to the bands to provide & share equipment.

If someone is willing to lend you their gear, take the offer. But don't be ungrateful - find out who it is at the start of the night, double check they're happy with you using it (do this in advance if possible!) & thank them. That's much better than just walking on stage, plugging & playing, then buggering off.

I had a gig not long ago where once we'd finished soundchecking, the next bass player asked me if he could borrow my amp as he didn't have one. I was a little annoyed, but I couldn't say no - my gear was there, set up. But to then ask me if he could borrow a cable too, as he didn't bring one of them... C'mon, at least make an effort or ask in advance. I almost offered to play the gig for him, too.

I don't expect every bass player from every band we play with to have fantastic gear, transport, or whatever else - but I expect them to make an effort in making sure the gear situation is covered. Turning up unprepared is poor form.

It sounds like you've done the right thing in trying to find out what's going on & making sure there's gear there. Just be honest with the other guys, offer to help if there's any way you can and always thank whoever leant you their gear. If it's the headline band & you've got a train to catch, just say - I'd rather someone say to me that they have a bus to catch, than disappear.

[Roland Rock]

Definitely a common thing! I've played scores multi-band gigs, and I can only think of one time where there wasn't some sort of gear share between bands.

[smaz]

Oh, and on the insurance front - is there anyone else you can add to your policy? Parents? Other half? I only learnt to drive last year (I'm 27), and my insurance wasn't *too* bad because I got a multicar policy with my girlfriend & had her as a named driver on my car. Worth a shot.