NBD - Sire Marcus Miller V7 Alder-4 AWH *Audio*

[ras52]

[quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1427981702' post='2736657']
I see they have a sunburst B stock 5er still in....and a white one too, but in swamp ash.
[/quote]

Luckily I'm GAS-free at the moment

And ash v alder... is ash (on average) lighter?

[discreet]

[quote name='UglyDog' timestamp='1427978631' post='2736609']
...the bound maple fingerboard has flawless pearl block inlays and all in a high gloss. I don’t normally like high gloss necks but this one feels good -- let’s see if I change my mind after a few sweaty gigs!
[/quote]

I think it'll be fine. I usually get the Scotchbrite out, but it's a class finish. Feels more like a paint finish, not sticky at all.

[quote name='UglyDog' timestamp='1427978631' post='2736609']
...The D’Addario steels are nice, although I'm more of a nickel man so I think I'll be investing in some Roto nickels before too long.
[/quote]

Just to be irritating, mine was fitted with nickels, too. But I immediately swapped them out for BT nickels which are easier to play, imho.

[quote name='UglyDog' timestamp='1427978631' post='2736609']
And the sound. Oh my word. The sound. It is [u]fabulous[/u].
[/quote]

Absolutely the bottom line, and what all the fuss is about. That and the top-quality neck makes it unbeatable.

[quote name='UglyDog' timestamp='1427978631' post='2736609']
Fender/Squier, sit up and take notice –- there's a new kid in the playground, and he's just stolen all your dinner money.
[/quote]

I'm glad you agree - great post.

Edited April 3, 2015 by discreet

[discreet]

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1427982448' post='2736667']
...ash v alder... is ash (on average) lighter?
[/quote]

Apparently Hard Ash is heavier than Swamp Ash which is (generally) lighter than Alder. But there's a whole thing about differences in weight and quality of ash depending on which part of the tree it's cut from... and another whole thing about the differences in tone...

Leo used Ash for sunburst finishes (as the grain shows through) and alder for solid finishes (as it doesn't). I don't think he had any strong views about any perceived tonal differences - it had a lot to do with what was locally available. So in short - I don't know!

Edited April 2, 2015 by discreet

[UglyDog]

Oh, knickers to the lot of yez Yes I expect mine are nickels too, I just assumed that they were D'Add steels and didn't bother checking the hanging dooflip. I am a tit.
I'll probably change them for my favoured Rotos anyway.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='UglyDog' timestamp='1427984594' post='2736703']
Oh, knickers to the lot of yez Yes I expect mine are nickels too, I just assumed that they were D'Add steels and didn't bother checking the hanging dooflip. I am a tit.
I'll probably change them for my favoured Rotos anyway.
[/quote]

I must admit I thought they were steels as well. I've used these strings for a few years, but this bass sounded so bright and lively I had to go and double check. Funny though, they went dead after just one gig, they dont normally do this on my other bases.
I'm looking forward to puttinb a set of balenced tension strings on though, I prefer the feel. I might leave the B sting on though, it's only there to support my thumb anyway :-)

[lowhand_mike]

hmm i'm in the market soon for a 5 and this might be a cheepish way of seeing how i get on rather than splashing out a grand on a bass i may not get on with and from the sound clip it does sound lovely, i generally prefer satin necks or oiled are the gloss ones really ok?

[discreet]

[quote name='lowhand_mike' timestamp='1427989654' post='2736782']
hmm i'm in the market soon for a 5 and this might be a cheepish way of seeing how i get on rather than splashing out a grand on a bass i may not get on with and from the sound clip it does sound lovely, i generally prefer satin necks or oiled are the gloss ones really ok?
[/quote]

I don't get on with gloss necks but this one is fine for some reason, I don't know why. Just my opinion, of course. You can always take the shine off with a Scotchbrite pad if you don't like it. It's not drastic or irreversible either, you can get the finish back easily.

Edited April 2, 2015 by discreet

[Marvin]

The neck may be glossed but I don't find it at all sticky, I actually like it, it's veeeerrrry smoooooooooooth.

[dave_bass5]

Agreed, definitly not sticky. I love my Squier necks, but although they are glossy as well they do get sticky. Not that this bothers me. In fact I prefer the finish on these to the Lakland JO maple neck I have.

[drTStingray]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1427984583' post='2736702']


Leo used Ash for sunburst finishes (as the grain shows through) and alder for solid finishes (as it doesn't). I don't think he had any strong views about any perceived tonal differences - it had a lot to do with what was locally available. So in short - I don't know!
[/quote]

They used alder because the grain of the wood has less natural dents and it was thus easier, quicker and thus cheaper to finish to a high quality gloss - even sunburst. You will also find early 80s sunburst Stingrays in alder. Now you know there are different schools of thought on the affect of body wood on tone - my take is alder produces a slightly more refined, mellow and less strident at the extremes tone - it sure does in a Stingray and I think this is true with Fender guitars and basses also.

Nice that you get an alder body with such a keenly priced bass with these.

[discreet]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1428001901' post='2736996']
...my take is alder produces a slightly more refined, mellow and less strident at the extremes tone...
[/quote]

I'm still to be convinced about the effects of tonewoods. Having said that, I chose alder over ash for its alleged mellowness... I suspected the tone circuit and pickups may have a 'Marcus bias' - that's why I chose a rosewood board over maple, too. I imagined that an ash/maple combo, along with the 'Marcus' factor, would result in a bass a little too 'top-end' for me, but I really don't know if that's the case or not. I'm certainly happy with the amount of heft on tap, but that could well be down to the circuit. We need an A/B comparison!

Edited April 2, 2015 by discreet

[UglyDog]

Cool. I've got the ash, you have the alder. When shall we do it?

Edited April 2, 2015 by UglyDog

[discreet]

[quote name='UglyDog' timestamp='1428011258' post='2737143']
Cool. I've got the ash, you have the alder. When shall we do it?
[/quote]

Errm... I dunno - you're not going to bite me or pee on my leg, are you?

[Green Alsatian]

My turn.

I haven't taken any pictures as I have the same model as Discreet - Alder-4 AWH and his pictures do an excellent job of showing off this instrument.

I was due to report on this bass last Thursday (26th March) but sadly, my first one arrived from Thomann with a fault. The volume/passive tone control was loose and the nut had stripped, so tightening it just loosened it again. Plugging the bass in, the tone control wasn't functioning properly - it sounded like it was mostly rolled off already and turning it fully down muted the instrument, so I sent it back for a refund. As I was impressed with the rest of the bass and wanted another, I reordered another straight away last Friday and it arrived yesterday. This time, I have an autographed neck plate - number 913. The first one had no autograph and the plate was different - completely plain, rather than the 'border' indented into it, so I did wonder if I'd been sent a return by accident.

For comparison, over the years, I've owned a 1998 Fender American Vintage '62 Reissue (the best Jazz I've owned), a MIM Fender Jazz V, a MIM Fender Jazz Deluxe, 2 Squier Vintage Modified Jazzes (at different times) and a Farida FJB-6. Although the Sire doesn't trump the '62 Reissue for looks, feel and sound, it is easily the second best Jazz I've owned. Put it this way, if Danny Baker knocked on my door and offered me my old '62 Reissue back in exchange for the Sire, I'd take the '62 Reissue, sell it and get another Sire, pocketing the change.

Here are my thoughts on the replacement.

[b]Fit & Finish [/b]- like Discreet, I also noticed the unfinished truss access recess and it doesn't bother me. Other than this, flawless - no imperfections in the paint, tight neck joint with no gaps and all hardware tightened with nothing loose. The cut on the scratchplate is a little rough, but not something that bothers me. I love the finish on the neck - I'm a fan of glossy necks and this just feels like it is from a far more expensive instrument. The nut has been cut well and I didn't need to lower the nut action at the first fret. Speaking of the frets, all very neat with no sharp edges or high frets.

[b]Hardware[/b] - the tuners do their job and have held the bass in tune so far. The action on them is okay - not 'gritty' like some cheap tuners are and I will not be changing them. The neck pickup cover arrived too flat, such that the two screw points weren't level, pointing away from the body and the A string was hitting it when plucked. I also gently bent it into more of a curve and will fit it over the weekend as I think it looks nice and I don't play over the neck pickup, either closer to the neck, or nearer the bridge pickup. The bridge does its job and I can't help but think that the saddles are too long as when intonated correctly, the break angle to string through the body would be near 90 degrees. I won't be stringing through the body, but I think this is a design flaw - even if the saddles were 5mm shorter, there would still be plenty of string contact with them, as can be seen in the comparison pictures between the 5 and 4 string Sires. The pots and the pickup selector switch feel solid and although I feel the outer ring controls are a little fiddly for my sausage fingers, they do work well and don't interfere with the inner knob.

[b]Pickups/Electronics[/b] - this is another area where the Sire shines. The pickups are great and will not be getting changed - they are more modern-sounding than vintage and have a decent output on them. The passive tones are a little brighter than the other Jazzes I've owned but it's still a great sound. The passive tone control rolls off enough highs to make it useful, luckily. One thing I did appreciate, was that there is no volume boost when engaging the active circuit when it is set flat and the passive tone still works in active mode, giving further treble roll off in addition to the dedicated treble boost/cut control. As others have indicated, it's not a system where you boost everything to the max - subtle changes bring instant results allowing you finer control over your tone. I've never known a bass at this price to have sweepable mids, so this is very welcome and really helps to dial in a Precision-like tone with the neck pickup soloed and naturally providing a wider array of tones on hand. Be careful with the bass boost control as it quickly can become 'too much' when cranked. I boosted it fully with my headphones and it was causing them to clip! The treble control when boosted adds enough top end but without sounding brittle and rolls off enough to warm up the sound nicely. A very powerful preamp.

[b]Playability[/b] - this isn't a light bass - definitely one of the heavier Jazz basses I've owned. I don't find it unusably heavy, but it is noticeable and is something to consider if you suffer from back/neck issues on longer gigs. The neck feels really comfortable in the hand - it's still a 38mm width, but it's a bit thicker from front to back - presumably to match 70s Jazz Basses as I recall similar comments about the Fender 70s Classic Jazz Bass. Out of the box, it was set up pretty close to how I set up basses myself and as I like the D'Addario Nickel roundwound strings, I'm not tinkering with the setup, which is testimony to Sire's quality control/setup as I hardly ever leave a bass as it was out of the box. Unpack it, tune it and play.

[b]Overall[/b] - this bass gets a massive two-thumbs-fresh from me. I expect a bass costing around £300 to be good as the bar has been raised at this price point by many companies. The Sire exceeds this on every level - aesthetics, ergonomics and sound. There is nothing I feel needs to be done to the bass to improve it in any of the three key areas - even the 'English Bull Terrier' headstock has grown on me from when I first saw these basses. It might seem an exaggeration, but this bass would still be worth it at the £600-£700 mark - for the £283 I paid, there is nothing as feature-rich to compare as it easily beats the Squier Vintage Modified basses (which I loved) and I would pick the Sire over the Classic Vibe Jazz without hesitation. I think someone else mentioned in here that if Sire did a Precision, I'd also be around £300 worse off!

Edited April 3, 2015 by Green Alsatian

[UglyDog]

Another excellent review
I think we need a Jazz shootout. Fender vs Squier vs Sire ash vs Sire alder vs Lakky vs anything else I have forgotten. This needs to happen.

[dave_bass5]

And we need Ed to do it, so no one else feels bad about what they own ;-).

[discreet]

[quote name='Green Alsatian' timestamp='1428020571' post='2737247']
...the bar has been raised at this price point... The Sire exceeds this on every level - aesthetics, ergonomics and sound...
[/quote]

In a nutshell. Great post.

[Green Alsatian]

Thanks folks!

I'd better comply with the unwritten forum rules...

[dieseldalziel]

That duvet cover really brings the colour out! Great review & pics!

[zero9]

[quote name='zero9' timestamp='1427647312' post='2732664']
Wow, thanks for the review. I was considering getting a 5-string Squier VM Jazz, but this changes everything. More colour / fretboard options with the Sire as well. Brilliant!
[/quote]

Commendations to everyone for the informative reviews provided. Without you and this forum, it would be impossible to make an informed choice. I'm still considering either the Squier VM Jazz V option or the Sire MM 5-string. As thing stand, and based on my current 'research', I'm still favouring the Squier offering, for the following reasons.

Sound: based on sound samples listened to (mainly Youtube and those posted here), the Sire has a more modern 'zingy' tone to my ears, whilst the Squier nails the 'traditional' Jazz tone. I know this is a very limited assessment, however, if the instrument is aimed at beginners / first time buyers, then without access to trying both side by side, I consider this a valid comparison, as IMO a lot of customers will buy the instrument unseen.

Looks: the squier looks more like the proper Fender counterpart. I feel this is important, especially when considering the target market. With media rich content offerings and the popularity of Fender products being used by the majority of infuential players, the Squier has the right 'look'. I personally don't like the sire's headstock, although there may be reasons why they didn't adopt the traditional J headstock. Although sire offer more options on finishes, I do like black blocks on a maple board.

Whats in a name? Well, you can have a 'Sire' guitar or 'Squier' guitar. There's a rhyme going on here, and I don't know if that's deliberate (clever marketing perhaps)? For some, logos are important, and a good looking logo is a strong marketing tool. The squier logo looks good, and is more iconic, no surprise with the marketing behind it. The sire logo leaves me cold. I don't see why they couldn't have come up with something more 'groovy'. The cost of a logo is insignificant when added to an instrument, therefore, no excuse to not produce something more eye-catching. Squier have a great website offering, sire's appears at an embryonic stage. Information, especially specifications are thus harder to obtain for the latter.

The squier is based on a tried and trusted formula, which has been around for about 60 years, and simply works. I feel that sire have made a few 'schoolboy' errors, which could have been so easily avoided. Don't get me wrong, I really like the sire. It's stunning what they've been able to achieve at this price point and will definitely make other manufacturers sit up and take note. There are some niggles, which to me, show either naivity or lack of market research. I can only base this on the reviews here, for which I'm most thankful, as without such marvellous review postings it would be impossible to reach any conclusion. If the bass is indeed longer than average, this is an important oversight. I can understand that a John Entwistle Buzzard or Explorer won't fit a standard case or bag, but you would exoect a Jazz clone to. This could catch some first time buyers out. Getting the position for the through body stringing wrong on the 4 string is somewhat hilarious and shows to me that they didn't even bother stringing it that way before going into production. The fact that they've responded to say this will be corrected may be commendable, but shows they've made an error. I would've preferred a non-string through design, with the money spent on better tuners instead. The plethora of controls concern me, and would be quite baffling to a beginner. If I was buying this as a back-up, my fear is that at some stage these will get damaged, given the height of some of them, esoecially being out on the 'road'. I'm less keen on the side mounted jack socket and would've much preferred a single plate mounted offering of all controls, including jack socket. For me, mid controls are not necessary on a Jazz, given the options available with two pickups. A simpler Vol Bal Bass/Treble option would've been more elegant IMO.

Please note, these are just my opinions, and not designed to knock sire's product. Like probably most of us here, I can afford a more expensive instrument and have spent more than that on just a neck in the past. It doesn't stop me appreciating quality at a lower pricepoint though. If I'm finding it tough to choose between a squier or a sire, I can't imagine how a novice feels. I don't really need another bass (although I don't have a fiver), however I don't want to spend a fortune (like I've done in the past). Given there is nowadays such superb quality around the £300 mark, there is less danger in getting a 'dog'.

Perhaps, as sire's presence increases, second hand squier prices will drop as some will off-load theirs to get a sire. Maybe I should sit tight until this happens and pick up a s/h squier 5 string for less. When I've rushed into a purchase before, I've usually regretted it. I'll wait to see how things unfold. I may even change my mind again

Edited April 3, 2015 by zero9

[discreet]

[quote name='zero9' timestamp='1428067327' post='2737685']
Commendations to everyone for the informative reviews provided. Without you and this forum, it would be impossible to make an informed choice. I'm still considering either the Squier VM Jazz V option or the Sire MM 5-string. As thing stand, and based on my current 'research', I'm still favouring the Squier offering...[/quote]

Thank you. I've owned a Squier VM Jazz V and it's a very good bass indeed - for the money. But it wasn't until I installed an Audere JZ3 Jazz Preamp that it really came into its own. Of course this bumped the price up somewhat. Finally the 'B' string became a bit of an issue (for me) and I moved it on. But to be fair, it was mainly because 5-string basses aren't my thing.

However, the Squier just didn't have the playability or 'feel' of the Sire. I don't know what the Sire 'B' string is like as I'm a four-string player, but the Sire bass I have now is superior in almost every way to the Squier bass I had then. In fact, I'd say it's at least equal to, and in some ways superior to, a Fender Jazz . I completely understand where you're coming from though, for many years I was only interested in basses with an 'F' decal on a headstock with 'that' inconic shape.

And again, for a long time I wasn't interested in basses with sophisticated tonal options (or even more than one pickup), being a staunch Fender P man (which I still am to some degree) and there's a lot to be said for that level of simplicity. But I would urge you to get both basses in your hands and play them before you make a decision. This might be tricky of course, but there must be a five-string Sire owner somewhere within striking distance. If not, I'm sure there soon will be.

Edited April 3, 2015 by discreet

[dave_bass5]

Zero9. If the traditional looks/tone and logo etc are important why aren't you looking at the real deal, a proper Fender that has all the boxes ticked?
For what it's worth I do agree, the Sire is almost a normal Jazz bass, but not quite. It feels big to me, and yes, the headstock is needless large. Saying that, maybe the size of the headstock is the reason i can't find any dead spots in places ive had the, before on other jazz basses.
I'm also much more of a passive bass guy. Ive never really liked active basses. Saying that, I will use the active EQ as its there, and does sound good. If there was a passive version I would have got that though. Same with my TRBX.

Edited April 3, 2015 by dave_bass5

[UglyDog]

It's true that the Sire headstock shape is a bit gumby, and the length is potentially problematic. A couple of schoolboy errors really that could have been averted. But the rest of it is so superb, I can gladly look past them. Good as the Squiers I've played were, this thing really is in a different league.

[discreet]

[quote name='UglyDog' timestamp='1428071495' post='2737771']
It's true that the Sire headstock shape is a bit gumby...
[/quote]



Gumby sharing a joke with himself yesterday... ahem.

Yes, the bass is longer than is usual overall (about 119cm) but it WILL fit into a Hiscox Liteflite and it DOES fit into my Ritter gigbag. Yes, the through-body thing with the 4-string bridge is an issue, but not one that bothers me in the least - though I can well see how it might be a problem for some and may even hint at possible errors elsewhere. Having said that I haven't found any. Yet.

But anyway, Sire have held their hands up and said they are addressing this - it's merely teething trouble, imho. Can you imagine EBMM or RIC or FMIC listening to customer feedback and acting on it? Because I can't!

Edited April 3, 2015 by discreet

[stu_g]

i caved an ordered a v7
do you think if you really wanted to string thru body on the 4 string, a set of more traditional sized saddles would make this possible?