EBS Rig: used one yesterday at a gig..

[silverfoxnik]

Hi Folks,

We did an outdoor festival yesterday and the bass player in the band before me had the full Bernie Goodfellow/GB Guitars works; lovely hand made GB 4 string all-singing, all-dancing bass, plus an EBS 650 head with a 210 and 115.. To save time with changeover in between their set and ours, the guy very kindly offered me the use of his rig..And bearing in mind the rig provided by the organisers was a Behringer head & cab, I thought I'd suddenly landed in bass heaven.

But when it came to setting up I've got to say that I was pretty underwhelmed by the sound of his EBS rig!! At first I thought I was doing something wrong but it really didn't blow me away tonally at all!! It certainly wasn't the best of circumstances in which to try it out and I have heard a similar rig at Bernie's place sound good..

Thinking back, I can only describe it as very 'zingy' tone; sort of glassy highs and bright upper-mids but there didn't seem to be any inherent warmth to it.. I had to use the tube emulator and the 'character' setting to get any of the warmth and depth that I prefer and once I'd done that, it was OK. But I was expecting more??

I know all you EBS users are going to take me to task over this and I feel almost 'Judas' like in offering up a more negative view on what is very highly regarded gear.. So, I'm hoping there'll be something similar at the SE Bash next month so I can try out the EBS stuff again in much better surroundings. No doubt someone there will want to show me the error of my ways..

Nik

[EBS_freak]

One man's heaven is another man's hell...

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='259369' date='Aug 10 2008, 03:57 PM']One man's heaven is another man's hell...[/quote]
It certainly wasn't hell; that would have been using the Berhinger rig that was there!!

It just wasn't absolute, tonal heaven that I was expecting...

[Gwilym]

hey Nik, it sounds like you should try the Fafner, there was plenty of warmth when I tried one some time ago. I've been gassing for one ever since but have yet to pull the trigger, so to speak. I suspect that it may, sound wise, be my ideal head, but the size and weight (relative to all the lightweight gear now on the market) just puts me off. and the chicken head knobs are also an aquired taste.

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='Gwilym' post='259397' date='Aug 10 2008, 04:42 PM']hey Nik, it sounds like you should try the Fafner, there was plenty of warmth when I tried one some time ago. I've been gassing for one ever since but have yet to pull the trigger, so to speak. I suspect that it may, sound wise, be my ideal head, but the size and weight (relative to all the lightweight gear now on the market) just puts me off. and the chicken head knobs are also an aquired taste.[/quote]
Hi Gwil,

Just had a look online.. very nice!! I see what you mean about the chicken head knobs but that's modern-day bass marketing for you!

Nik

[stingrayfan]

Operator error, I reckon...

[Marcus]

What type of bass were you using ?

I love the EBS's ability to bring a passive fender to life......

I plugged my old Kingbass into my EBS Rig at the time (TD650 & pair of neo212) sounded horrible !!

[alexclaber]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='259361' date='Aug 10 2008, 03:45 PM']Thinking back, I can only describe it as very 'zingy' tone; sort of glassy highs and bright upper-mids but there didn't seem to be any inherent warmth to it.. I had to use the tube emulator and the 'character' setting to get any of the warmth and depth that I prefer and once I'd done that, it was OK.[/quote]

That sounds like EBS to me! Good gear but predominantly focused on the 'modern' sound (which ironically is now arguably the dated '80s sound).

Alex

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='stingrayfan' post='259402' date='Aug 10 2008, 04:52 PM']Operator error, I reckon... [/quote]


Yep - definitely was...

Marcus, I was using my Fender Roscoe Beck V which is passive??

[quote]That sounds like EBS to me! Good gear but predominantly focused on the 'modern' sound (which ironically is now arguably the dated '80s sound).

Alex[/quote]
Alex; I think you've got a point there... That is the GB/EBS sound I suppose.. I am definitely an old-fashioned git as I don't particularly like that sound.

[Josh]

[quote name='Marcus' post='259407' date='Aug 10 2008, 05:06 PM']I plugged my old Kingbass into my EBS Rig at the time (TD650 & pair of neo212) sounded horrible !![/quote]

I'm knackered then.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='259486' date='Aug 10 2008, 07:09 PM']I am definitely an old-fashioned git as I don't particularly like that sound.[/quote]

No, you're a hip retro cat like myself.

Alex

[bass_ferret]

Yes EBS does have a lot of sparkle but you dont have to use it. When you use somebody elses gear the convention is you dont f*** about with their settings and being the gentleman you are I doubt you f***ed about much. When I had the HD350/Neo212 I used the turn the bright knob all the way off and the tweeter down to 11 o'clock. Worked for me.

[molan]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='259369' date='Aug 10 2008, 03:57 PM']One man's heaven is another man's hell...[/quote]

Vaguely similar to a recent gig where I used fairly expensive Ashdown gear. Coming from a Euphonic set up it sounded dead and woolly to my ears & lacking any drive to another player who uses an Ampeg. However the guy who owns the rig absolutely loves it!

I have a Fafner which I really like but also fooling around with a 20 year old SVT which has a rather seductive sound. I must admit that using the Fafner through just my 2x10 it is very bright and I have to cut the high end but with the 2x12 (or both) it sounds great to my ears.

[d-basser]

my fafner is lovely, warm but not too thick or undefined, a perfect mid ground, but i have only had it through a peavey 15" and and ampeg 810 neither of which are zingy cabs. The EBS/ampeg combination was damn awesome

[EBS_freak]

The EBS gear can cover all grounds and particularly excels at the hifi, zingy, pop and slap thing... but as ferret says, by adjusting the brightness and the treble on the amp and tweeter settings on the cab and you can get a completely different sound. If the guy who owned the rig was using a GB, chances are he had the EBS set pretty flat (with the brightness at 12 o'clock) and was controlling it off the bass. The GB preamp is a lot more tweakable than most and with the amount of boost available on each of the eq bands, the likelihood was that there was a lot of boosted bass and mids going to the amp. Plug in another bass, passive particularly and you are going to end up with a thinner, toppier sound as you describe. My guess is that you needed to tweak the eq on the amp to boost the bass and mid frequencies to get the most out of your passive Fender.

In terms of cabs, I find the proline warmer than the neos. I am not the greatest fan of the neo sound - they sound more sterile to my ears... but that's just me. If you were going through neo cabs, with a flat eq set on the amp, it doesn't surprise me that you found the tone not to your taste.

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='259641' date='Aug 10 2008, 11:36 PM']The EBS gear can cover all grounds and particularly excels at the hifi, zingy, pop and slap thing... but as ferret says, by adjusting the brightness and the treble on the amp and tweeter settings on the cab and you can get a completely different sound. If the guy who owned the rig was using a GB, chances are he had the EBS set pretty flat (with the brightness at 12 o'clock) and was controlling it off the bass. The GB preamp is a lot more tweakable than most and with the amount of boost available on each of the eq bands, the likelihood was that there was a lot of boosted bass and mids going to the amp. Plug in another bass, passive particularly and you are going to end up with a thinner, toppier sound as you describe. My guess is that you needed to tweak the eq on the amp to boost the bass and mid frequencies to get the most out of your passive Fender.

In terms of cabs, I find the proline warmer than the neos. I am not the greatest fan of the neo sound - they sound more sterile to my ears... but that's just me. If you were going through neo cabs, with a flat eq set on the amp, it doesn't surprise me that you found the tone not to your taste.[/quote]
That's it in a nutshell!

He said the same to me about keeping the amp pretty much flat and then using his bass e.q. as required.. if I'd have had more time, I would have probably arrived at the scenario that you and bass_ferret described so I didn't get much time to explore.. That's why I'd like an opportunity to hear it again in a different setting.. And yes, they were the neo cabs..

[bass_ferret]

And of course he was mixing cabs with "unpredictable" results I bet 2 2x12's would have sounded better.

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='259887' date='Aug 11 2008, 12:55 PM']And of course he was mixing cabs with "unpredictable" results I bet 2 2x12's would have sounded better.[/quote]
+1

[alexclaber]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='259641' date='Aug 10 2008, 11:36 PM']...with a flat eq set on the amp, it doesn't surprise me that you found the tone not to your taste.[/quote]

The problem with most bass heads is that 'flat EQ' isn't actually flat EQ, it's just all knobs pointing to 0. In the case of most EBS and SWR heads that equates to mid cut and boosted bass and treble, whilst with Eden it's more of a midrange push, with Markbass it's actually pretty flat, with GK its reduced bass and boost treble and so on. So rather than having a consistent starting point you're having to work against the tonal shape that's already there.

This isn't a problem at all if you pick the head whose default EQ is closest to your sound - that's what the sound of an amp is all about a lot of the time - but when using other people's rigs it can make it much harder to get your sound.

Alex

[Merton]

That's exactly why I like the V-Type stuff, the basic "flat" (er, all knobs in the middle, hehe) sound is closest to "my" favoured tone and hence easy to shape

[stingrayfan]

Forget EBS Nik - get a Trace.

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='stingrayfan' post='259918' date='Aug 11 2008, 01:18 PM']Forget EBS Nik - get a Trace. [/quote]
Does it have a pre-set that eradicates operator error

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='259905' date='Aug 11 2008, 01:08 PM']The problem with most bass heads is that 'flat EQ' isn't actually flat EQ, it's just all knobs pointing to 0. In the case of most EBS and SWR heads that equates to mid cut and boosted bass and treble, whilst with Eden it's more of a midrange push, with Markbass it's actually pretty flat, with GK its reduced bass and boost treble and so on. So rather than having a consistent starting point you're having to work against the tonal shape that's already there.

This isn't a problem at all if you pick the head whose default EQ is closest to your sound - that's what the sound of an amp is all about a lot of the time - but when using other people's rigs it can make it much harder to get your sound.

Alex[/quote]

Of course, even "flat" isn't necessarily "flat" as the natural characters of the speakers will influence the eq. As I stated previously, the sound of neos are significantly different to the proline stuff. The proline stuff develops more bass and mids.

The EQ on the EBS when putting a GB through it, in my opinion, is pretty flat when set flat... the character switch will engage the famililar mid cut sound - it's definately quite a difference between the "flat" setting and the "character" setting.

Due to the amount of cut and boost available on a GB preamp, most GB players will play the EBS amps pretty flat, with the character switch in and let the bass do the majority of the tone shaping.

In reality, it's just another complication in the rig. You got to get the eq of your bass matched to the eq of your preamp, matched to that of the poweramp (most good poweramps should be dead flat) and the eq of the speakers. Of course, where you play in relationship to the pickups will alter the eq...

To be honest, you can't slate an amp if you haven't got used to it (not saying that anybody is slating EBS and maybe nobody cares what I am saying because I generally love EBS stuff anyway) - but using the eq of an amp set up for one bass isn't necessarily going to work for another. It's like plugging into an amp that a meathead has set to max across the board (think Bill and Ted) and then slating it because it sounds pants.

As for the Trace comment... I've had Trace and I loved the sounds of them. I prefer EBS... but that doesn't mean that one is better than the other... just different! If you love your Traces - then great. It's good finding your tone!

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='259963' date='Aug 11 2008, 02:02 PM']Does it have a pre-set that eradicates operator error [/quote]

The on/off switch??

[Josh]

Just to say, I had a good 3 hour stint with pretty much the same EBS rig I'm getting very soon, a Neo 2x10 and Neo 2x12 and a TD650 head. I tried all 3 of my basses through it, and was 100% happy with everything I was hearing, it's exactly what my Eden isn't, it's bright, it's warm, has the sizzle and zing, and everything else in between. And at high volumes it was consistent and clear, as I expected. And it was pretty much with a flat eq, besides a little cut on the treble and the tweeters, and little treble cut on my basses. Even my King-Bass with some nigh on dead strings sounded good, but my 535 and SSII sounded perfect:-)

Edited August 11, 2008 by Josh