Laney terrible customer service

[Weststarx]

Hi All,

Just wanted to express my fustrations and to also warn fellow bass players what to expect with Laney.

In February after saving money from Christmas and my Birthday I saved up some money and went looking for a new amp. In the end I went and brought a Laney after having used my dads old Laney DP150 which was tough as nails. So I brought a Laney RB9 with the hope and trust that it was going to last me a long time and be a kickass as the DP150.

Oh how I was wrong...

After 3 months the amp died on me at rehearsal, I took it back to the shop I brought it from who sent it off to Laney to be repaired. I then heard absolutely nothing from Laney and neither did the shop after 6 weeks. After losing paitence, I went into the shop a week later and asked them to call Laney in front of me and ask what the delay was. All of a sudden Laney jump into action and say 'Amp will be with you by the weekend'. To my joy it arrived when they said and I took it home.

It was only a month later the amp died again, this time 3 days before a gig. I was fuming, even more so that becuase of it I had to into my savings and buy a different amp with next day delivery so I could make the gig. Again its now been nearly over 2 months since I've heard anything from Laney and again I lost paitence and all of a sudden I receive a phone call this morning saying it will again be back by the weekend.

Personally I dont want this amp back, I want my money back. As a gigging bassist I cant afford having an amp that dies every 5 minutes and I also cannot trust it to use at a gig or even as a backup to my new one in fear that it will just die on me again.

Its been 9 months since I bought it and I've only been able to use it for about 4 months.

Needless to say I will not invest my hard earnt cash into anything Laney again.

[Big_Stu]

Don't know if the law's changed but it used to be that once you gave them the chance to repair it you lost a lot of strength in asking for a refund. I had a Laney practise amp once, the speaker was way underpowered & had to be replaced fairly quickly, other than that it was OK - but nothing special.

You could maybe write to Laney's PR/Customer Service people saying "I appear to have bought a Friday afternoon amp, can you help me out" kinda thing & hope for the best? I tweeted about a duff shaver a few weeks ago & had the company on within minutes asking what they could do to help. Social media can be powerful stuff.
edit: @LaneyAmps

Edited November 4, 2014 by Big_Stu

[Weststarx]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1415096666' post='2596543']
Don't know if the law's changed but it used to be that once you gave them the chance to repair it you lost a lot of strength in asking for a refund. I had a Laney practise amp once, the speaker was way underpowered & had to be replaced fairly quickly, other than that it was OK - but nothing special.

You could maybe write to Laney's PR/Customer Service people saying "I appear to have bought a Friday afternoon amp, can you help me out" kinda thing & hope for the best? I tweeted about a duff shaver a few weeks ago & had the company on within minutes asking what they could do to help. Social media can be powerful stuff.
edit: @LaneyAmps
[/quote]

Apparently Laney do not refund or replace an amp until it has broken down 3 times...

I also did write Laney a letter which successfully got ignored.

Maybe I'll tweet them this thread...

[BassBod]

Do it...they've been around a long time and should b able to repair a recent product without any further problems.

[r16ktx]

I think that you should be able to go back to the shop you bought the item from and get a refund on the basis it is clearly not fit for purpose. It's come up before - the contract is between seller and purchaser, not manufacturer and end-user.

[icastle]

[quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1415097010' post='2596549']
Apparently Laney do not refund or replace an amp until it has broken down 3 times...
[/quote]

Don't get diverted by that.

The Sale of Goods Act clearly states that the onus is on the [b]retailer[/b] to remedy the situation.
Go back into the shop and ask them what [b]they[/b] are going to do about the situation.

If you want to be fair, go back to the retailer, choose a new amp of a slightly higher ticket value and get them to accept the Laney as part payment for it.

[icastle]

[quote name='r16ktx' timestamp='1415100144' post='2596595']
I think that you should be able to go back to the shop you bought the item from and get a refund on the basis it is clearly not fit for purpose. It's come up before - the contract is between seller and purchaser, not manufacturer and end-user.
[/quote]

That only applies in the first 4 weeks.

[r16ktx]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1415100342' post='2596597']
That only applies in the first 4 weeks.
[/quote]

I thought it was distance selling had the clear 4 week limit for returns without any reason needing to be given.

I've turned up this regarding faulty goods and 'accepting' goods but I can't see any clearly defined time limit (other than 'it depends', which is not very useful!)
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/consumer_w/consumer_common_problems_with_products_e/faulty_goods_e.htm
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/consumer_w/consumer_common_problems_with_products_e/faulty_goods_e/whats_meant_by_accepting_the_goods.htm

Although admittedly to me it's all a can of legalese so I'll take my oar out :-)

[Conan]

[quote name='r16ktx' timestamp='1415100144' post='2596595']it is clearly not fit for purpose - the contract is between seller and purchaser, not manufacturer and end-user.
[/quote]
[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1415100234' post='2596596']The Sale of Goods Act clearly states that the onus is on the [b]retailer[/b] to remedy the situation.
[/quote]

This, and this^

[icastle]

[quote name='r16ktx' timestamp='1415101939' post='2596617']
I thought it was distance selling had the clear 4 week limit for returns without any reason needing to be given.
[/quote]

Yep, that's true.
Returning goods 'face to face', as Weststarx is doing, is slightly different but the 4 week limit is the same.

The pertinent headlines for this case are:
If the goods are returned as faulty within the first 4 weeks of ownership he is entitled to a refund.
After 4 weeks he is entitled to a replacement or a repair up to the 6 month point.
After 6 months the options are limited to repair - this is where Weststarx is.

Now, these are the [b]minimum[/b] expectations of the Sale Of Goods Act and most savvy retailers will be doing more than the minimum requirements in order to keep the customer happy.

[quote name='r16ktx' timestamp='1415101939' post='2596617']
Although admittedly to me it's all a can of legalese so I'll take my oar out :-)
[/quote]

It certainly can be complicated.
The Sale Of Goods Act was written in 1979 when 'plain English' wasn't a requirement.

[Weststarx]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1415103615' post='2596637']
Yep, that's true.
Returning goods 'face to face', as Weststarx is doing, is slightly different but the 4 week limit is the same.

The pertinent headlines for this case are:
If the goods are returned as faulty within the first 4 weeks of ownership he is entitled to a refund.
After 4 weeks he is entitled to a replacement or a repair up to the 6 month point.
After 6 months the options are limited to repair - this is where Weststarx is.

Now, these are the [b]minimum[/b] expectations of the Sale Of Goods Act and most savvy retailers will be doing more than the minimum requirements in order to keep the customer happy.

[/quote]

As the first time it was sent for a repair and it clearly wasnt repaired could I argue for a replacement/refund?

[icastle]

[quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1415103905' post='2596644']
As the first time it was sent for a repair and it clearly wasnt repaired could I argue for a replacement/refund?
[/quote]

It was repaired - just not to an acceptable standard.
Without seeing the service notes there's no way of telling if the second fault was related to the first one.

Looking at the time the amp has spent back at Laney, you could argue that for a disproportionate period of time of your 6+ months ownership, the amplifier wasn't in your possession - but that still only brings you back to repair\replace and that's at the retailers discretion.

How about trying to come to a compromise with the retailer - something along the lines of they keep the Laney and replace it with goods to a similar value?
Maybe even sweeten the deal by choosing more expensive goods and paying the price difference.

That way neither of you are out of pocket.

[taunton-hobbit]

For my sins, I'm in retail (not amps, btw) - I can't see an issue with returning the amp if it's gone wrong again and exchanging for another of similar (i.e. greater) value. It hasn't gone wrong (yet) this time, you just don't want it back -I can see why you don't want it back, but this, in the trade, is called 'retail regret' and is not a valid reason for refusing to accept the repair.
Sorry, but that's the way it is......I would try a conversation with the retailer about an exchange.....if it goes wrong yet again, I would talk to Trading Standards and consider a small claims court action against the retailer....that usually promotes fairly quick results......

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1415103615' post='2596637'] Yep, that's true. Returning goods 'face to face', as Weststarx is doing, is slightly different but the 4 week limit is the same. The pertinent headlines for this case are: If the goods are returned as faulty within the first 4 weeks of ownership he is entitled to a refund. After 4 weeks he is entitled to a replacement or a repair up to the 6 month point. After 6 months the options are limited to repair - this is where Weststarx is. Now, these are the [b]minimum[/b] expectations of the Sale Of Goods Act and most savvy retailers will be doing more than the minimum requirements in order to keep the customer happy. It certainly can be complicated. The Sale Of Goods Act was written in 1979 when 'plain English' wasn't a requirement. [/quote]

I don't believe that's true. That he has to accept a repair. The 6 month thing only affects the burden of proof as to whether the goods were fit for purpose at the time of sale. Up to six months, the goods are presumed to be faulty. After six months, the purchaser must prove that the fault is an inherent fault, typically by obtaining an independent engineer's report. I believe that if the shop isn't able to successfully repair the item, then they are still obliged to replace or refund. The refund may be discounted by an amount that takes into consideration how much use the buyer has had from the goods. In this case, not much.

There's information about consumer rights of the retailer is unable to repair the goods (which should include the situation where continual repairs are needed) here: http://www.renfrewshire.gov.uk/webcontent/home/services/community+and+living/consumer+advice+and+protection/es-mw-tradingstandardsfaq#remain

[quote]
[b]What if a retailer repairs goods but they remain[/b][url=""][/url][b]faulty? [/b]

You have the same rights as before you agreed to the repair - let the shop know you are reserving the right to reject the goods when you agree to the repair attempt. Alternatively you can ask for a replacement if the repair is unsuccessful - you do not have to accept further attempts to repair. You should give the shop a reasonable opportunity to repair goods - especially if the fault is minor and the goods can be put into a satisfactory condition bearing in mind their age and use. Repair and replacement have to be carried out within a reasonable time scale and without significant inconvenience to the consumer. For example, if you think that four weeks is too long to wait for a repair to your washing machine you can request a replacement immediately.
[/quote]

[Number6]

Use twitter as well.....social media can be very useful. It's amazing how quickly manufacturers reply and defend themselves on there.

I am @maybin6 and @spirit_ot_age add me and i'll jump into the conversation stating how i am shocked to hear how bad you have been treated.....

People power ;-)

[paulears]

The Sale of Goods Act doesn't deal with specific numbers of weeks or days or years - in court, it's what the judge deems reasonable. A year's guarantee was traditionally considered a reasonable time for a guarantee, but it was never set in stone.

If you buy on-line, then you have the modern DSR rules to help you, but the SoGA runs in parallel, and uses "merchantable quality" as a guide to something good enough to be sold, but only sets out a few circumstances where things [i]must[/i] happen. You do NOT, for example have to accept a repair. The retailer is entitled to inspect the good to check they've not been trashed or messed with - but if you do accept a repair, it's generally understood now that this does not wipe out your claim if the goods die again. The best bit, however, is that if you paid with a credit card, not a debit card, then the credit card company may be willing to do a charge back against the retailer if you can provide proof the goods are defective.

This falls down if you use a business credit card, or to recover the VAT, bought the goods through your business. This then becomes a business transaction and the Sale of Goods Act doesn't apply because it is not a consumer transaction.

The courts have proven over the years to support the side that has behaved reasonably. Plenty of examples of refunds being made after a twelve month period has passed because the goods are a long lifespan (or should be) product. Equally, goods that have been heavily used within the year have not been deemed suitable for refund.

In the case of the Laney amp, the first repair could have been successful and everyone would be happy - bar the silly delay. However, telephoning Laney is not your responsibility, it's the dealers and them not chasing it could be deemed negligent. However, the second fault would support your belief that the unit is clearly not suitable for the purpose you bought it for - another part of the SoGA. If you buy an amp to use on stage for gigging, and the retailer suggests a product, then it has to do that job.

So your course of action is quite variable. You can go straight in and ask for a refund on the grounds that the item clearly was not of merchantable quality, and is not fit for purpose. If you paid by credit card, and they a reluctant to refund it, then pass it to the credit card company - because technically they bought it, not you. If you wish, you could accept the money off a different product - that's up to you. The cost of a county court summons is quite cheap, can be done on line, and doesn't cost you anything if you win. In court you just produce evidence. receipts, dates, times and things that happened.

[Mornats]

You can ask them about it on their Facebook page too. https://www.facebook.com/laneyamplification?fref=ts

Start off by simply stating the issue and asking if they can help rather than having a moan at them as others will be more likely to support you if you're seen as given the company a fair chance at resolving it.

[Number6]

[quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1415133756' post='2597142']
You can ask them about it on their Facebook page too. https://www.facebook.com/laneyamplification?fref=ts

Start off by simply stating the issue and asking if they can help rather than having a moan at them as others will be more likely to support you if you're seen as given the company a fair chance at resolving it.
[/quote]

I just liked their page.....and available to respond in shocked amazement when you need me.

Good luck

[Billy Apple]

The Sale of Goods and Services Act is your friend.

I called up Trading Standards when an exhaust blew on my motor blew at 12 months and a week. The main dealer said as it was over 12 months there was nothing they could do. Trading Standards told me about reasonable use, and in their opinion an exhaust system from a main dealer should be good for 3 years. They told me exactly what to put in a letter to the dealer. I rang the dealer asking who I should address the letter to and in the same call they agreed to replace the blown pipe.

Most recently I got all my money back from Paypal after a less than scrupulous seller tried to pass off goods not as described and keep a re-stocking fee. After finally getting to speak to a human at PP my mantra became The Sale of Goods and Services Act 1979. Bingo!

Good luck!

[icastle]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1415128832' post='2597062']
There's information about consumer rights of the retailer is unable to repair the goods (which should include the situation where continual repairs are needed) here: http://www.renfrewshire.gov.uk/webcontent/home/services/community+and+living/consumer+advice+and+protection/es-mw-tradingstandardsfaq#remain
[/quote]

I'm not sure what they are, but I do know there are some differences between Trading Standards in Scotland and England.

[Weststarx]

Guys, I cannot thank you enough.

I didnt know I had any of these rights haha!

I will let you know the outcome at the weekend!

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1415183037' post='2597458']
Guys, I cannot thank you enough.

I didnt know I had any of these rights haha!

I will let you know the outcome at the weekend![/quote]

I heard that Trading Standards was being taken over by a dept of Citizens Advice Bureau & that does seem to be the case. You could get chapter and verse off them, "Consumer helpline 03454 04 05 06" before you try again.
The old Trading Standards had a lot of clout & would in some cases phone the shop to kind of tell them they were about to have a complaint logged against them; that was enough to fix the last problem I had.

[strtdv]

Have you tried contacting Laney about it?

I've had very helpful customer service from them in the past (including sending out a replacement amp handle free of charge on an amp that was well out of warranty).

I'm not saying they haven't messed up, but it might be worth sending them a polite email about it.

[taunton-hobbit]

OP has written to Laney (post three) - seems to have been ignored....personally I'd fly a Recorded Delivery letter before moving this on.....I once had all the joy of threatening to send the Receivers in to Ford at Dagenham - that got results!

[Weststarx]

It took me making a complaint to the Managing Director of the shop I brought the amp from but its now been finally resolved!

I explained the situation and he was extremely accommodating and he has now promised me a swap for a Eden E300 and will even cover the extra cost for me, so I've come out with a better amp at the end of it.

I probably should have made the complaint ages ago but until you guys posted all your advice I wasnt aware I had the right to get a replacement, so I'd like to thank each one of you who replied!

Probably will avoid Laney now for the rest of my life...