My last ever charity gig less than a week to go now!

[flyfisher]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1410858827' post='2553850']
[s]the[/s] MY problem is, the landlords are taking advantage of the charity for their own profit, . . . .
[/quote]

Fixed for you

[BILL POSTERS]

There are those on here who will do a 'Charity gig' for just about anyone who asks. Regardless of whether they would support that charity. I have known bands do them without even knowing what the charity was.

Makes me wonder if its cos they cant get decent paying gigs.

Much better to either do em for expenses, or charge a fee and donate it to a charity you do believe in and actually want to support.

We do the odd one, but the last few years they seem to be on the increase. Its as if landlords / promoters are jumping on a bandwagon. So for me at least, no more for a while.

[spacey]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1410857489' post='2553824']
So let me just check this . . .

The punters are happy to donate to a charity
The band is happy to play for nothing
The landlord and greed brewery are happy to make their profit

Nope, can't see the problem myself - everyone seems to be happy.

Seems that YOU are the one with a problem with it, so why not just stay in bed until someone offers you some money to get up?
[/quote]

You speak for everyone ?
Wow Sorry God.

[stingrayPete1977]

As I've said in my opening post this will be MY last charity one regardless of who or what it is aid of, what other people or bands do is up to them, this one in particular got my goat as the members don't even want to pay to get in which is the nail in the coffin strangely as I'd already decided this would be my last ever free gig before I knew that.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1410860913' post='2553880']
You speak for everyone ?
Wow Sorry God.
[/quote]

I was merely checking my understanding of spacey's post "[i]The donations come from punters, the entertainment as in the band work for nothing, the bar till rings all night long.[/i]"

Which bit do you think I got wrong then? Of the people actually involved in the event, as opposed to those sneering on the sidelines, who do you think is unhappy?


(and it's 'My Lord' if you don't mind )

Edited September 16, 2014 by flyfisher

[flyfisher]

[quote name='BILL POSTERS' timestamp='1410860139' post='2553867']
There are those on here who will do a 'Charity gig' for just about anyone who asks. Regardless of whether they would support that charity. I have known bands do them without even knowing what the charity was.

Makes me wonder if its cos they cant get decent paying gigs.
[/quote]

OK, let's assume 'charity bands' can't get 'decent paying gigs'. So what? As long as the punters are happy to donate, the band is happy to pay for free and a charity gets some money, who cares if the venue still makes money? Seems to me it's win-win for all concerned. The only people moaning are those who don't take part, which is their choice. I'm not advocating that all bands should play charity events for free, just that those who choose to do so, for whatever reasons, don't get grief from other bands.

I understand some bands won't play without being paid, and good for them if that's their choice, but why all the hostility towards 'hobby bands' who simply enjoy playing live for the love of it?

Even if you regard them as some sort of musical low-lifes, why deny them the chance to do their own thing?

[BILL POSTERS]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1410864114' post='2553936']
OK, let's assume 'charity bands' can't get 'decent paying gigs'. So what? As long as the punters are happy to donate, the band is happy to pay for free and a charity gets some money, who cares if the venue still makes money? Seems to me it's win-win for all concerned. The only people moaning are those who don't take part, which is their choice. I'm not advocating that all bands should play charity events for free, just that those who choose to do so, for whatever reasons, don't get grief from other bands.

I understand some bands won't play without being paid, and good for them if that's their choice, but why all the hostility towards 'hobby bands' who simply enjoy playing live for the love of it?

Even if you regard them as some sort of musical low-lifes, why deny them the chance to do their own thing?
[/quote]

Moaning. Musical low lifes. ?

As Stingray Pete said in post #1 His last charity gig. I am just agreeing with what he said. But also pointing out that charity gigs are not always what they seem. The last few summers there seem to have been a lot more of them. Most of the time the bands are the only ones doing it at their own expense (and so paying for the privilege) and I bet if you ask, half of the time never get to hear how much was actually raised for and given to a charity.

A pub or club or whatever having a fun day, but putting bands on, adding 'stock' to the name and passing a bucket round doesn't necessarily make it a charity gig or a festival. Its just as likely a way to increase the takings in the summer.

[xilddx]

I've done, and will continue to do, charity gigs when asked. But I know some of them are a bit crap and don't actually make much money and the promoter gets f***ed. But I've done a few pretty big ones and they've made thousands of quid for charities.

I don't think one can have a personal 'policy' about doing charity gigs. It's a balance init. Big known band, big draw and money for charity. Small local band, you have to happy in your role as a bit of extra entertainment for the punters, almost none of whom will remember you or buy your album once they've gone home.

Edited September 16, 2014 by xilddx

[flyfisher]

Well they certainly won't be buying our non-existent album

The last charity gig we did raised just over £3k for a local community garden charity. It was a day long event that included sponsored bike rides around various courses all arriving back at their 'hq' (a very large house with ample grounds provided to them on a free lease for a couple of years) for an afternoon of free live music plus food stalls and a bar operated by volunteers. I sorted the PA and was on site for about 12 hours from set-up to break-down as well as playing a 45 minute set along with the other half dozen or so acts.

Looks like I was stitched up like a kipper eh?

Still, it was second year running so I guess I'll never learn.

[UglyDog]

For me, it depends on the charity involved. There are some for whom I would play for free every month if they asked me, and others I wouldn't touch with a bargepole. At the end of the day (stock phrase, arrgh sorry) it's always a personal choice and nothing to do with an inability to get paying gigs.

[stingrayPete1977]

In this instance the punters are NOT happy fly Fisher, they don't want to pay for a ticket, that's their choice as its their club, if I'd known that in the first place for my self dignity I'd have happily let some one else do it.

I've done my share for charities I do support and for some I don't over the years, I'm done unless it at least pays costs or flea breaks his arm

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1410869574' post='2554040']
Well they certainly won't be buying our non-existent album

The last charity gig we did raised just over £3k for a local community garden charity. It was a day long event that included sponsored bike rides around various courses all arriving back at their 'hq' (a very large house with ample grounds provided to them on a free lease for a couple of years) for an afternoon of free live music plus food stalls and a bar operated by volunteers. I sorted the PA and was on site for about 12 hours from set-up to break-down as well as playing a 45 minute set along with the other half dozen or so acts.

Looks like I was stitched up like a kipper eh?

Still, it was second year running so I guess I'll never learn.
[/quote]
Good on ya, and I won't stop you doing it next year but my band won't be on the bill unless they use a dep bass player. For the odd good gig it means I miss out I'm happy to dodge the countless sh*t ones, I'll still be doing the odd pub gig for £30 a head no doubt but that's not for free or charity.

As these threads prove there is always plenty of bands happy to do them so its hardly like I'm responsible for the end of all fund raising gigs.

[JTUK]

We listen and see how much they will pay us. They may make an offer of expenses and the gig will cost the band
£250 minimum as that is what we will pay ourlseves on that gig. If we decide to subsidise the gig to that degree, less any exes, then
there will be a good reason for us to do so. Will we listen to any proposal..? no, not really. We aren't going to haul in everything
and make the day, but we might be part fo a good effort if we know and trust the organiser. Basically, we will be looking to see
where his costs are and what we can add.
We will also see the history of these events to see what their charity record actually is. We like to be advised how much the
day raised and who they contribute too but mostly we will do a ticketed event and charge a fee on the basis that the event will
be a profit making enterprise and they may make donations off that.
We also take note of how is on the bill and if a band is playing a 'potential' paying gig for free, we are asking why?
They may be desperately keen to get in on the bill so it is a loss leader for them but free bands are often free for a reason
and the main reason is why you don't want them on the bill, IMO.

After a while, we've all been around, we know how things work..we don't get caught out so much
and one of the ways to do that is by seeing how much time and money is invested.
Some basic requirements of a gig cost and we are one of those.. it is the way it is.

But.... this charity thing has got a lease of life of its own... the number of pub beer festivals
with free bills... ??? If someone is selling tickets of £5 for 1000 heads, I'd be wanting to see
where the money went and I think it is pretty stupid/gullible of bands not to want to know that[i].[/i]
I also note that a lot of the bigger events are run by event companies and to be fair, that
in itself is not a bad thing IF they know what they are doing but then they should aso know the value
of bands that make or break these things, rather than stick their own band in..

I think bands should ALWAYS ask a lot of questions about a gig and pretty much know the score
before they play it and if they don't.... then that is their look-out.

[flyfisher]

That's all fair enough . . . but what is it they are looking out for? If they are happy to play for free, even if others make some money, then what's the problem? You may think they are mugs, and on your terms they probably are, but if they simply don't care and are just happy to play for the fun of it then it's simply not possible to take advantage of them is it? Taking advantage requires someone to be cajoled into doing something they don't want to do, doesn't it?

[flyfisher]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1410869800' post='2554050']
In this instance the punters are NOT happy fly Fisher, they don't want to pay for a ticket,
[/quote]

Well I don't think I'd be happy to pay for a ticket if I didn't want to, so why do so. Just stay at home. That's no more 'taking advantage' than the Led Zepp charging £150 for a reunion concert is it . . . .er, ok, bad example

[JTUK]

I think this type of thing does pretty much cheapen our little enterprises so I don't tend to like to see it
myself. I know I am not going to stop it either but I do think some people don't really get what is going on.
In that sense, they are being taken advantage of...and I would always 'teach' the younger musicians to
have a bit of respect of self-esteem. I am glad that most music college players we come across have a
business element to it so they don't play for free.
I know you won't like this idea, but if councils who may be called upon to grant licenses also looked
at whether the bill was free, it might decide whether a lot of these events could exist. The ones that we have
gotten involved with has had loads of council soldiers on site asking all sorts of questions and making demands..
Have to say, once they have gotten past all that.... the events are generally ok... and our bill and dealings
are insignificant

[BILL POSTERS]

Would be interesting to see figures from some of the charity gigs I did during last summer - usually for exes - [size=4]like who actually worked for free, how much actually went on what expenses, how much actually reached the charity, how much profit the bar / food vendors made and what percentage of that was donated [/size] [size=4]etc[/size]

[size=4]I know that even £50 is a gain for the charity, but I'd feel a bit more of a mug if the bar made a grand and didnt donate a big chunk of it.[/size]
[size=4]I can see the point of doing the occasional one for fun, really I can. But why should everyone else make money from it ?[/size]

Edited September 16, 2014 by BILL POSTERS

[Dr.Dave]

It's all down to the cause , for me. I'm proud to have been involved in some of the fundraising events I've done but I've also refused some. As an example 'Help for Heroes' as an organisation has my total support but I'm less happy with some pubs that put on a HFH event where bands , and other attractions , give their services freely but the publican sticks up a notice saying he'll give 'a percentage' of his profits to the charity. What percentage would that be then? Many sound like an easy way to boost a pubs publicity and profits to me , and although there is doubtless benefit to the charity at the end of the day I'm extremely suspicious of the publicans motives. I'm afraid a lot of charity events - and charity shops/street fundraisers etc for that matter - are not all they seem to be if you look under the surface. It's a case of 'giver beware ' both in terms of your time and your money. I wrote and recorded a CD single once to raise money for the stroke assoc. I know where every penny of those I sold went because I handed it over to the SA myself ( my contribution was the recording cost - I did reclaim the cost price of the discs and printing - that info was written on the label). I was far less happy to find it copied and being sold by a trader on Wakey Market still with the donation info on the front. That totally changed my thinking on copyright theft , I can tell you. No knock off DVDs or illegal downloads in this house.

[Lozz196]

Tell you what guys, not knocking anyone who doesn`t want to do charity gigs, but when you`ve raised money for Great Ormond St Hospital, and actually go there with the items you`ve bought, and see the looks on the kids/nurses faces, well to say it makes you feel you`ve done something worthwhile is a real understatement.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1410881009' post='2554234']
Tell you what guys, not knocking anyone who doesn`t want to do charity gigs, but when you`ve raised money for Great Ormond St Hospital, and actually go there with the items you`ve bought, and see the looks on the kids/nurses faces, well to say it makes you feel you`ve done something worthwhile is a real understatement.
[/quote]
Don't think anyone's got a problem with that at all, I'd do charity gigs if I knew it really was a charity gig, that was going to raise money, the problem is when pubs put on so called charity events that are an excuse to have a bumper bar takings day.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1410869574' post='2554040']
Well they certainly won't be buying our non-existent album

The last charity gig we did raised just over £3k for a local community garden charity. It was a day long event that included sponsored bike rides around various courses all arriving back at their 'hq' (a very large house with ample grounds provided to them on a free lease for a couple of years) for an afternoon of free live music plus food stalls and a bar operated by volunteers. I sorted the PA and was on site for about 12 hours from set-up to break-down as well as playing a 45 minute set along with the other half dozen or so acts.

Looks like I was stitched up like a kipper eh?

Still, it was second year running so I guess I'll never learn.
[/quote]

There seems to be quite a mix of events here, all being lumped together. This ^^ is what I call a charity gig, and we do exactly this ^^ a couple of times a year. It's like a very small local festival, 'organised' by neighbours and friends mostly looking for an excuse to have a good day mixing and socialising, grilling bangers, operating the bars and raising funds for a cause they've chosen (often a local kid in a wheelchair, for instance...). We look after the PA, back-line and stage management, and usually play a session. We have the local old folks choir perform, the music school choir and bands, in between 'acts' there's a batic (Brazilian samba drums...) wandering around the grounds (one of the ruined castles for which our region is famous...). If the weather is right, all have a great time. No-one is 'paid'; it's a charity event.
This is not the same scenario at all to those described in these 'HFH' pub do's; I've never come across these sorts of events, nor do I recognise the 'beer-fests' mentioned above. That said, I'd help out (including playing...) at any charity events fitting my definition above. The others, I wouldn't, paid or not. It's not our style of gig.

Disclaimer : I'm an official 'grumpy ol' git', in that I don't 'believe' in charities as such, and give to none. I'll help anyone in need to the best of my means and (now limited...) ability, but I'm far too cynical to donate 'blind' to any. I respect and admire some (the lifeboats come to mind; there are doubtless many others...), but that's not how I want to see the world working, so I do things my way, instead. This is not an apology, and no, I'm not 'soft and cuddly'.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1410881009' post='2554234']
Tell you what guys, not knocking anyone who doesn`t want to do charity gigs, but when you`ve raised money for Great Ormond St Hospital, and actually go there with the items you`ve bought, and see the looks on the kids/nurses faces, well to say it makes you feel you`ve done something worthwhile is a real understatement.
[/quote]
The thing is so many of these charities are just a cover for a money making business, where possible if rather give goods to the people concerned than money or items to sell for money, I'm pleased that fly Fisher made all that money at his gig but it worries me how much cash goes directly to those in need even if the event can be run for free and you have avoided the scam brewery etc, if that charity sends 5% of that to a good cause and the rest goes to "administrative costs" its a waste of my time to be honest, I'd rather now an elderly neighbours lawn or something.

The money and cars the top brass at most charities get is a piss take, the idea of liberal hippy types taking enough to live on and cover costs (and quite right they should too) has become a bmw and a huge salary.

[bassace]

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1410721307' post='2552348']
In my experience, a band is valued by what they charge, so a band that plays for nothing is considered to be worth nothing.
[/quote]

Dead right. Although I've relaxed a bit in old age. I think I can sniff out a genuine charity gig - the local library, church, special needs etc - but I don't do 'fundraisers'.

[JTUK]

A lot of things are done via FB so it shouldn't be long after the fact that the charity figures are announced.
Our best gig this year was not in fact a charity event but they have posted the best charity figures I've seen
on my FB page. Some others... I don't recall seeing.
If a song and a dance is made over a charity event, I would expect the same song and dance made
to publish the donations. Many are genuine..quite a few are not, IMO.
It is quite easy to get cynical about charity events and that doesn't do the genuine ones any good at all.
The ones that we have been involved with have had an expenses package.

[Doddy]

Here's a thought...How does the charity benefit from the band playing for free? Is the promoter going to give
your usual fee to the intended charity instead? Doubtful isn't it.
Most pub gigs pay out of the bar takings (or occasionally from a brewery subsidy), so they could still do this without
taking money from the charity collection.If the band members then choose to give their money, or just a portion of it,
to the charity that is there choice. The band get paid, the charity receive extra donations and the landlord has only payed
out his regular budget and has probably taken more than usual over the bar because of the charity draw.
Everyone wins.