Orange Isobaric Cabs. Any opinions?

[Mog]

These "Smart Power" cabs have intrigued me for a while. The principle is sound but something in the back of my mind keeps saying gimmick. Has anyone been using one of these for a few months/years? If so just how much air do they actually push?
Ultimately I'm looking at stacking either two SP210's or two SP212's for when louder onstage volume is needed, however, I'd really like to have an ultra compact 2x12 or 2x10 for smaller gigs that I can power with a suitable head/power amp.

[chris_b]

2 speakers pushing the same air?

I'd rather have 2 speakers pushing twice the air of 1.

I don't know if "the principal" is sound as this format isn't used by anyone else. If it was, surely more companies would be doing it.

[Muzz]

Not been impressed with the ones I've tried. Small, yes, but heavy for the size, and not very deep/loud.

[chris_b]

I'd get 1 Barefaced cab.

That would be an ultra compact rig that would exceed the capabilities of these Orange cabs.

I'd add another if needed.

[Mog]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1385634333' post='2290391']
2 speakers pushing the same air?

I'd rather have 2 speakers pushing twice the air of 1.

I don't know if "the principal" is sound as this format isn't used by anyone else. If it was, surely more companies would be doing it.
[/quote]

Aye, like I said, I'm sceptical.

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1385634430' post='2290393']
Not been impressed with the ones I've tried. Small, yes, but heavy for the size, and not very deep/loud.
[/quote]
Cheers Muzz.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1385634518' post='2290394']
I'd get 1 Barefaced cab.

That would be an ultra compact rig that would exceed the capabilities of these Orange cabs.

I'd add another if needed.
[/quote]

I'd love one Chris . But the cost of a secondhand compact over here is around €600. That would get me two of the SP212's going by current secondhand prices.

[chris_b]

I'd do a search.

I seem to remember a few posts about these cabs in the past.

[Mog]

Spent an hour on it Chris. Couldn't find many concrete yay or nay opinions. Thought a fresh thread might yield better results given that they've been out for about 4 years now.

[DiscoTetak]

These cabs love to be pushed. Throw 500W into them and be amazed!

[JapanAxe]

Underwhelmed when I tried them, and yes they are heavy. Went for BF in the end.

[chris_b]

A thread from Talkbass....

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/isobaric-cabs-will-they-loud-enough-913372/

[mikeh]

I'd really like to try a pair of the 212 cabs, would consider swapping my aguilars for them. But the aggies are really good, and it would be a big risk.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Mog' timestamp='1385633808' post='2290385']
These "Smart Power" cabs have intrigued me for a while. The principle is sound but something in the back of my mind keeps saying gimmick.[/quote]The principle has been known for 40 odd years. Take two drivers, configure them so that only one of the cones is exposed to the air and one to the cabinet, and you get the same response curve with half the net box size as is required with one driver. That's a plus. You also get the same net output as with one driver. That's not a plus.
This concept was useful said 40 years ago in home stereo applications, because the driver technology of that time often meant it took a box in excess of 12 cubic feet to get strong output at low frequencies. Using a second driver to get the box size down had its advantages. But even in stereo applications advancements in driver technology rendered the isobaric concept obsolete by the 1990s. By the same token isobaric cabs would have made sense in 1965, but not in 1995, let alone today.

[Japhet]

Cheap Schroeder 2x12s in the F/S section are small and light but pack a mighty punch.

[Cat Burrito]

[quote name='Mog' timestamp='1385633808' post='2290385']Has anyone been using one of these for a few months/years?
[/quote]

Can I buck the trend by being the first person to comment who has actually been using one for years? And the less popular SP210 too. I'd have preferred the SP212 but finances dictated otherwise at the time. I'm certainly not disputing other opinions but sometimes trying a rig in a shop or borrowing kit from the headline band doesn't always give as full a picture. Prior to this my rig was an Ampeg 1x15 cab with a 1978 Bassman head. I now exclusively use the Orange cab and it is the only cab I've owned in over 3 years. Given my previous rig it is unsurprising the weight wasn't an issue I'd picked up on. Mine is also flight cased so the weight really can't bother me.

The reality for me is it is all I need. I tend to play in a range of venues from Art Centres to pubs and in small / medium pubs with vocal only PAs it really holds up well. In the larger venues it is standard to mic up the bass so again, no issues. I get more comments about my sound now than at any other time and I've been playing 25yrs. So plenty loud enough. I use mine in a 5 piece Americana band mostly with a Fender bass and a 3 piece Rockabilly band with my upright bass.

I'm fickle and do like the look of those Ampeg Portaflex rigs but the fact that this one has been a staple part of my sound / gear over years says quite a lot, I reckon. And for the record I use a Terror head with my SP210. Oh, and my Americana band was offered an endorsement deal with Orange but we turned it down as I was happy with the rig as was. The deal was they loaned us bigger and better amps on tour for free. It made sense to stay with what was.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='Mog' timestamp='1385633808' post='2290385']
These "Smart Power" cabs have intrigued me for a while. The principle is sound but something in the back of my mind keeps saying gimmick. Has anyone been using one of these for a few months/years?
[/quote]
[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1385647060' post='2290637']
The principle has been known for 40 odd years. Take two drivers, configure them so that only one of the cones is exposed to the air and one to the cabinet, and you get the same response curve with half the net box size as is required with one driver. That's a plus. You also get the same net output as with one driver. That's not a plus.
[/quote]
[quote name='BurritoBass' timestamp='1385652818' post='2290724']
Can I buck the trend by being the first person to comment who has actually been using one for years?

The reality for me is it is all I need. I tend to play in a range of venues from Art Centres to pubs and in small / medium pubs with vocal only PAs it really holds up well. In the larger venues it is standard to mic up the bass so again, no issues. I get more comments about my sound now than at any other time and I've been playing 25yrs.
[/quote]

There you are then, not confusing at all.

The truth is they are both right. The principle isn't sound, as an engineering solution it is completely bonkers. I can't believe it is anything other than one engineers daydream and a complete marketing gimmick from then on. If you want a little cab then make a driver with a bigger magnet, which will be cheaper and lighter than two drivers. If you want a portable cab don't make it so heavy! If you want it to sound nice then using an isobaric cab won't change the sound it just makes it more expensive.

But these cabs do sound OK if you like that old school sound, There's nothing actually wrong with them and you'll either like the sound or not. I quite like how they sound as it happens.

Just ask yourself though if you are happy paying almost twice as much for a cab to have a gimmicky extra speaker which doesn't contribute to the sound and where the money could have been better spent. If that really is the sound you can't live without and you don't mind the weight then go for it but it isn't good because it is isobaric and it isn't the first speaker I'd look at at that price.

[Cat Burrito]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1385654512' post='2290746']But these cabs do sound OK if you like that old school sound, There's nothing actually wrong with them and you'll either like the sound or not. I quite like how they sound as it happens.
[/quote]

I agree although I think "OK" sells them short. I was most definitely seeking a vintage classic old school tone and this is what I have. In terms of wanting it to do anything else, not *my* thing. Certainly in terms of playing old rock 'n' roll, country, reggae etc, yep, definitely. Adding to the detail of my original post I wouldn't be comfortable commenting on anyone who tried to get a modern sound as it isn't something I've ever needed in any band I've played with. But I readily accept that there are players on here that this setup simply wouldn't work for what they do.

[Mog]

Cheers for all the replies lads, appreciate it.
@BurritoBass & Phil, essentially I'd be looking at using these for most of my dep/session work for at least the next two years. Have you tried the cabs with other heads (I never got on well with the Terror head)? How versatile are the boxes with respect to tonal variations. FWIW, I'd be using anything from an EHX 44 Magnum to a LH500 to power the cabs depending on the gig and venue.

[Cat Burrito]

[quote name='Mog' timestamp='1385670621' post='2291045']@BurritoBass Have you tried the cabs with other heads (I never got on well with the Terror head)?[/quote]

Nope, only with my head I'm afraid. I can't help but feel if you don't like the Terror head there is every chance the cab may not quite be to you tastes either... but I could be wrong.

[Mog]

[quote name='BurritoBass' timestamp='1385671560' post='2291064']
Nope, only with my head I'm afraid. I can't help but feel if you don't like the Terror head there is every chance the cab may not quite be to you tastes either... but I could be wrong.
[/quote]
Finest, I'm thinking I might just bite the bullet and pick up an SP210. If I don't get on with it after a few weekends I can move it on or donate it to the local venue.
Cheers again for the replies.

[bassmachine2112]

[i]Sounds like the Orange experience aint yer bag[/i]
[i]I tried various top end cabs with the terror head and various top end heads with the Orange cab and the Orange duo was what I was after.[/i]
[i]The longer I,ve had them the more pleased I am.[/i]
[i]Great head and great cab.No gain or DI issues either.[/i]
[i]Must be marmite gear.[/i]

[bassmachine2112]

It,s the sp212 cab by the way

[mart3442]

I used the (now discontinued from the looks of things) SP410 on a tour of the states in 2011. It was loud enough but doesn't have have the same punch and depth as the standard OBC410. Convenience aside, I'd stick with the standard 410 or get the OBC115.

[Lozz196]

I`ll echo Burritos comments having heard his rig, it sounds great. I wasn`t overkeen on the SP cab I used when trying out the OTB head, but as Burrito points out, trying an amp/cab alone in a shop bears little in comparison to how it works in the mix. Having heard that rig, I was quite envious.

[Cat Burrito]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1385752292' post='2291915']I`ll echo Burritos comments having heard his rig, it sounds great. ...Having heard that rig, I was quite envious.
[/quote]

Bless you Sir!

[bassmachine2112]

I must echo the comment about how they sound in the mix ,that,s where they shine.
No mucking about just steamrollers through,don,t know how or why but that,s the result.