FENDER???? I DOUBT IT!!!

[bennifer]

If you check a few recent replies he's been advising as "Hi this is not a reissue it is american made around 1972. cost of 4 - 6 week shipping is about £65 plus insurance. Regards Mike" etcetera and will have obviously read everyones messages to him and ignored them. If ebay arent going to pull it the only thing left to do is have a few ebayers bid battle it into some ridiculous price so no real bidders get stung and then refuse to pay on the grounds of that its been found to be a fake.

[Bassassin]

Had a reply:

[quote]It Seems from the messages I have been getting it is possibly a lawsuit Japanese Copy, I was sold it under the guise of a 72 jazz bass, I asked at the time about the no serial no neck plate and was told it had been replaced, the neck plate on this one is a genuine 72 plate I bought from the states. Obiously I have been sold a 'pup' I am a drummer not a bass player and bought it good faith. I will remove the listing and relist it as such thanx for pointing it out.[/quote]

Which I'd say is fair enough, & hope he didn't get ripped off too badly. Although "Nedcallan" strikes me as a very strange choice of user name for someone whose expertise is not with guitars. Cynical me, eh?

J.

[Dubs]

[quote name='bennifer' post='220531' date='Jun 17 2008, 12:49 PM']If ebay arent going to pull it the only thing left to do is have a few ebayers bid battle it into some ridiculous price so no real bidders get stung and then refuse to pay on the grounds of that its been found to be a fake.[/quote]

i don't mind bidding a million pounds for it - i never use my ebay account and i dont intend to ever use it again so bad feedback with mean sh*t all to me

[Huge Hands]

Still doesn't smell right to me. I am a long time drummer and bass player, but didn't know the term "lawsuit Japanese copy" until I came here.

If he knew the plate was not from this bass, then why was he not saying so? Why try and say "it's serial number is 39xxx" if he know's it's not off this bass?

[Dubs]

[quote name='Huge Hands' post='220547' date='Jun 17 2008, 01:01 PM']Still doesn't smell right to me. I am a long time drummer and bass player, but didn't know the term "lawsuit Japanese copy" until I came here.

If he knew the plate was not from this bass, then why was he not saying so? Why try and say "it's serial number is 39xxx" if he know's it's not off this bass?[/quote]

obviously a scammer who's trying to backpedal cos he's been found out, surely

[CHRISDABASS]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='220539' date='Jun 17 2008, 12:54 PM']Had a reply:



Which I'd say is fair enough, & hope he didn't get ripped off too badly. Although "Nedcallan" strikes me as a very strange choice of user name for someone whose expertise is not with guitars. Cynical me, eh?

J.[/quote]


well it looks like the matter is sorted!

thanks to everyone who helped out



its a good job us lot are on the ball ey!!

[bassaussie]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='220539' date='Jun 17 2008, 12:54 PM']Had a reply:



Which I'd say is fair enough, & hope he didn't get ripped off too badly. Although "Nedcallan" strikes me as a very strange choice of user name for someone whose expertise is not with guitars. Cynical me, eh?

J.[/quote]

It's hard to say whether he's a scammer or not, but if he's willing to accept what people have told him and relist it accordingly, then fair enough. Personally, I think he's just a poor bugger who got ripped off, but then decided to pass his loss onto someone else, doctoring the bass a little more to make it look a bit more realistic. Not the nicest thing to do, regardless of his own loss.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Huge Hands' post='220547' date='Jun 17 2008, 01:01 PM']...but didn't know the term "lawsuit Japanese copy" until I came here.[/quote]
Spend 5 minutes looking at old Jap guitars on Ebay and you'll never want to hear the bloody term again (as well as knowing for a FACT that ALL Japanese guitars were made in "The Ibanez Factory". ), however spend time here & you'll find out that there never was a "lawsuit" & the term - erroneous as it is - doesn't apply to Fender copies.

See - you just did.

FWIW I think he knows perfectly well what his bass is & was just trying it on. If he sells it as JapCrap, it'll do OK - for what it is.

J.

[BOD2]

He's claiming he's a drummer ?

Is he trying to suggest that somehow drummers are not intelligent enough to notice these things ?

Now where could he possibly have got that idea from....

[GreeneKing]

I've just had a reply from the guy. Seems he bought it as a 72 Fender without the neck plate. He ackowledges that he bought the neck plate for it and he says he'll withdraw it. Sounds genuine enough as his feedback would suggest.

Peter

[SJA]

he bought it without a neckplate? I call BS on that. imagine a jazz bass with just the 4 bolts in the body- I wouldn't touch that with a bargepole.
why would it be missing the plate?

"I asked at the time about the no serial no neck plate and was told it had been replaced"
replaced with what? a "made in japan" one?

as for his ignorance on guitars, check out his other listing for a Ned Callan bass- he seems to know a fair bit about that one.

[bassaussie]

This situation reminds of something that I stumbled across a few years back here in Portugal. There's a couple of blokes who deal in the shadier side of vintage guitars here, and they'll try anything on if they see a buck in it. One's a dealer who knows next to nowt about vintage guitars, other than that they're worth a lot of money, and the other is a collector who know's his stuff, and therefore knows how to do forgeries good enough to fool less experienced people.

So, one day I walk into the dealer's shop, and he's got an old Fender Musicmaster bass in there which he's charging something like 1000€ for. I had a look over it, and it's got this dodgy looking neck plate on it that's been made to resemble a pre-CBS neckplate, so it's simply got a serial number, nothing else. I asked him where he got the bass from, and finally got it from him that he'd got it from the dodgy collector. I then asked him what year he thought it was, and he assured me it was a 1960 Fender Musicmaster bass. I told him that was very nice, and that it was probably worth more than he was asking, especially since Fender didn't start making Musicmaster basses until 1970! He then told me that the bass was most probably a prototype. I told him I seriously doubted that, and when he asked him why, I explained to him that, when the bass had been in my possession (you see, I was the person who originally brought the bass into Portugal!!), it had had a neck plate on it that dated it to around 1974!!! He asked me how I could be so sure that it was my old bass, so I told him that if he looked under the pickguard, which apparently he hadn't previously done, he'd find that the body had been routed out for a Precision pickup, and not routed very well at that! I'd sold the bass to a friend, who had then sold it to the collector. The collector had taken the original neck plate off, placed a forgery on there (and, trust me, it was a really bogus looking neck plate), then sold it to the first unsuspecting victim - the dealer.

Now, I didn't feel too sorry for the dealer, as I knew a guitar repairman that he would send all sorts of things to for the repairman to doctor up to look like Fenders and Gibsons. But his mistake was that he simply dated the bass based on the neckplate, and didn't confirm some other fairly obvious points - ie. did Musicmaster basses exist in 1960?!

[Ou7shined]

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260252573704"]re-listing[/url]
What a goon. He's leaving the neck plate on.
You can get a cheapie for less than a fiver.

[SJA]

"It has the correct Fender Transfer on the head stock"

correct meaning "fraudulent".

[yorks5stringer]

What's a "JP copy"?

[GreeneKing]

[quote]What's a "JP copy"?[/quote]

Jaco Pastorius (it's not)? Jacket Potato?? Jazz/Precision (not that either)?

Peter

[Bassassin]

JP = probably Japan (maybe "drummers" spell it Ja Pan) but he could still get the listing pulled for mentioning Fender. He'd be better off putting the original neckplate back & selling the Fender one separately if it's "worth a lot" - because ironically JapCrap collectors would prefer it to be as original a possible - and neckplates are often helpful in IDing manufacturers. Similarly the [s]fraudulent[/s] sorry,[i] correct[/i] Fender logo is also an off-putter for collectors.

Out of the brands he listed, Maya is the only one that's a [i]remote[/i] possibility - Tokai & Fernandes were accurate enough that he might've got away with his previous listing - and 70s Fernandes copies are virtually unknown in the UK.

J.

[Ou7shined]

[quote]On 17-Jun-08 at 23:35:54 BST, seller added the following information:

This bass was up before as an original, I would like to thank the guys that pointed that it was a [b]good copy[/b] possibly one of the lawsuit ones that were produced in the 70's,They did say however it was a [b]collectors item[/b]. The bass player in my band has played it and never cottoned on it was a copy and said it was the best Jazz Bass he had played. There is now a realistic reserve on it,but the original neck plate with s/no is worth a fair bit. I bought this bass 10years ago in good faith believing it to be a genuine Fender and was told it was an original, but you can't win em all. I must apologise to anyone who bid on it for any hassle caused. It was a genuine mistake on my part (I am a drummer and basses are not my specialist field).[/quote]

[SJA]

check out the gap at the neck joint- eek!

mind you, that's authentic for 70's fenders, but not in a good way.

[aceuggy]

This is quite scary for someone like me. I'm new to the world of bass and looking for a Jazz. I could quite easily have bid for this thinking it was what this guy said it was. I wouldn't know any different and could end up being ripped off. Fair play to the guy in question, he's acknowledged the feedback given from you guys and re listed it. I know what though, if I see something on ebay I like the look of I will post it here and let you guys have a look before making any bids. I think you may have saved someone a few bob there. Good to know there are people out there looking out for you. Nice one.

Edited June 18, 2008 by aceuggy

[Kev]

you understand now though why that was so obviously not a fender?? uv just got to have a real good look at the bass, and often it can be a few little things that give it away

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='aceuggy' post='221219' date='Jun 18 2008, 10:49 AM'].... Fair play to the guy in question, he's acknowledged the feedback given from you guys and re listed it.[/quote]Although he is still presenting an overinflated opinion of this bass. I don't want to harang this guy but I don't believe his BS story, I believe he intentionally set out to rip someone off and after getting busted he's toned it down.

good copy - NO
collectors item - NO... not in the sense that's implied anyway

[quote name='aceuggy' post='221219' date='Jun 18 2008, 10:49 AM']I know what though, if I see something on ebay I like the look of I will post it here and let you guys have a look before making any bids.[/quote]That's what to do.

Edited June 18, 2008 by Ou7shined

[Dubs]

[quote name='aceuggy' post='221219' date='Jun 18 2008, 10:49 AM']I know what though, if I see something on ebay I like the look of I will post it here and let you guys have a look before making any bids.[/quote]

...and risk the chance of being outbid by a fellow BCer Yeah it is a good idea to get some sound advice about fleabay auctions though. There would have to be something very special and at a good price for me to consider using ebay again after my own experiences, the horror stories about ebay that have been published on this forum, and the new regulations they've brought in with regards to paypal.

[SJA]

it's handy to have books like the Ultimate Guitar book and the Bass Book by Tony Bacon/Barry Moorhouse, and the Fender Bass book around to check on details of guitars & basses- I can see how the vintage market can be a potential minefield.
Bookcase were selling off the Bass Book for a fiver or so a few years back- if everyone had a copy it would help stop scams like this.

[aceuggy]

[quote name='SJA' post='221275' date='Jun 18 2008, 11:54 AM']it's handy to have books like the Ultimate Guitar book and the Bass Book by Tony Bacon/Barry Moorhouse, and the Fender Bass book around to check on details of guitars & basses- I can see how the vintage market can be a potential minefield.
Bookcase were selling off the Bass Book for a fiver or so a few years back- if everyone had a copy it would help stop scams like this.[/quote]


Spooky! I've just ordered the revised edition of the Bass Book.