Been listening to a lot of genesis at the moment

[toneknob]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1375810993' post='2166046']
I've never been into Genesis much, certainly very little familiarity with the music. I'm listening to Cinema Show now, and it feels like listening to It Bites, who I'm a huge fan of, and who I know were big into Genesis, especially Dunnery. I think you may have got me into Genesis and I shall download Seconds Out shortly.

Cheers
[/quote]

Frank's solo set has often included Genesis material in his solo set. I've seen him do the intro to Dancing With The Moonlit Knight, among others (my memory fails me)

Also he appears on Steve Hackett's recent "Genesis Revisited 2". He sings on Moonlit Knight again, and as well the last section of Supper's Ready ("As Sure As Eggs Is Eggs (Aching Men's Feet)")

[lonestar]

Love genesis from first album to wind an wuthering.
Selling England and lamb lies down my favourites.
They were the first big band I saw live. Earls court trick of the tail tour I think with Phil Collins and Chester Thompson on drums.
Brilliant!

[ras52]

[quote name='toneknob' timestamp='1375868187' post='2166593']
Frank's solo set has often included Genesis material in his solo set. I've seen him do the intro to Dancing With The Moonlit Knight, among others (my memory fails me)

Also he appears on Steve Hackett's recent "Genesis Revisited 2". He sings on Moonlit Knight again, and as well the last section of Supper's Ready ("As Sure As Eggs Is Eggs (Aching Men's Feet)")
[/quote]

He's just sung on a re-working of the whole of The Lamb! [url="http://www.francisdunnery.com/music-2/"]http://www.francisdunnery.com/music-2/[/url]

Edited August 7, 2013 by ras52

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='toneknob' timestamp='1375867527' post='2166573']
Never been much of a fan of Burning Rope to be honest. A bit clunky lyrically, and the solo doesn't grab me I'm afraid. Much prefer The Lady Lies from that album.



Another bit of surprising bass-playing from latter Genesis is the instrumental at the end of Living Forever on We Can't Dance. A minute or two's brief excitement in another otherwise endless landscape of mediocrity on that album.
[/quote]

Ah, I've always loved Burning Rope. Once I clicked that it was probably about established bands in the era of punk, they lyrics made perfect sense.

On the subject of WCD, 'Driving the Last Spike' is a song that is good but should have been great. When that guitar-y instrumental kicks in, the song should have gone somewhere. But just as it gets exciting, it drops out again. So frustrating.

[quote name='marcus bell' timestamp='1375867800' post='2166584']
Phil Collins is just my favourite drummer of all time! He really made the kit sing
[/quote]

Absolutely. He's brilliant.

[toneknob]

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1375868666' post='2166606']
He's just sung on a re-working of the whole of The Lamb! [url="http://www.francisdunnery.com/music-2/"]http://www.francisdunnery.com/music-2/[/url]
[/quote]

Cool! Thanks for the tip, I'll look out for it.

Speaking of re-interpretations, look out for "Rewiring Genesis - A Tribute To The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway", which is the album reworked end to end for synth-less band with strings, woodwind and brass. You can read the story behind the project on Nick De Virgilio's site, he ddrums and sings on it: [url="http://www.ndvmusic.com/discography/ndv/rewiring-genesis"]http://www.ndvmusic.com/discography/ndv/rewiring-genesis[/url]. It's very good and delightfully mental. Check out the clip of Riding The Scree, brilliant.

[toneknob]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1375868882' post='2166609']
On the subject of WCD, 'Driving the Last Spike' is a song that is good but should have been great. When that guitar-y instrumental kicks in, the song should have gone somewhere. But just as it gets exciting, it drops out again. So frustrating.
[/quote]

Agreed - same goes for Fading Lights. Play a bit faster Tone! No Son of Mine = Mama Lite; Jesus and I Can't Dance = cringe; tracks 5-11 just not Genesis.

[mart]

[quote name='toneknob' timestamp='1375867527' post='2166573']....
Another bit of surprising bass-playing from latter Genesis is the instrumental at the end of Living Forever on We Can't Dance. A minute or two's brief excitement in another otherwise endless landscape of mediocrity on that album.
[/quote]
Agreed. That album was curious, as there were a few hints of real Genesis spread through the album. E.g. Tell me Why is a god-awful song, but blessed with some lovely 12-string stuff; the first time a 12-string had appeared on a Genesis album for ages. Fading Lights and Driving the Last Spike had some hints of glory but ultimately fell short, and even No Son of Mine had some atmosphere.

But that instrumental bit in Living Forever is a real highlight: it was as if they'd accidentally remembered how to be Genesis, but quickly stopped it, to get back to the excruciating mishmash that was the rest of the album.

[toneknob]

[quote name='mart' timestamp='1375872812' post='2166667']
Agreed. That album was curious, as there were a few hints of real Genesis spread through the album. E.g. Tell me Why is a god-awful song, but blessed with some lovely 12-string stuff; the first time a 12-string had appeared on a Genesis album for ages. Fading Lights and Driving the Last Spike had some hints of glory but ultimately fell short, and even No Son of Mine had some atmosphere.

But that instrumental bit in Living Forever is a real highlight: it was as if they'd accidentally remembered how to be Genesis, but quickly stopped it, to get back to the excruciating mishmash that was the rest of the album.
[/quote]

Let's get back to the good stuff. Thanks to this thread, Genesis content on Spotify is getting a good workout from me today. Now playing, Dodo from Three Sides Live. Man it's powerful stuff.

[wateroftyne]

Ah, I've got a massive soft spot for Fading Lights. A whole song that just the three of them could play live, and the lyrics are so poignant. Lovely.

[toneknob]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1375873253' post='2166680']
Ah, I've got a massive soft spot for Fading Lights. A whole song that just the three of them could play live, and the lyrics are so poignant. Lovely.
[/quote]

You're right - a lyrical high point for that era. And a blast to play as a three-piece. (The tribute band I used to play it with had a singer that didn't play drums, so he'd nip off for a quick half of mild with the guitarist for the instrumental)

[4000]

[quote name='toneknob' timestamp='1375803840' post='2165898']
Don't go running when listening to Seconds Out. Too many odd time sigs, you'll keep falling over

They're all good from Trespass to Abacab and the first half of Genesis. From 1977's And Then There Were Three, quality starts dropping off due to Phil Collins' first divorce and the slush starting to creep in, despite everyone telling him to go do a solo album and get it out of his system. After "Home By The Sea" finishes on Genesis, pretend nothing else happened
[/quote]
ATTWT is actually my favourite Genesis studio album, just pipping Trick of the Tail. It was the first Genesis album I heard though. Seconds Out is one of my 2 favourite live albums of all time and is probably my most played album ever. I love Genesis, certainly up to and including ATTWT .

[wateroftyne]

Oof.. just listened to Me & Virgil for the first time in ages. What a great song.

The drumming is fab, and Rutherford's nod to Roger McGuinn in the instrumental break is mint.

I never understood why the band hated it so much...?

Edit - Here it is for those that haven't heard it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taXXvJkU9U0

[xilddx]

[quote name='toneknob' timestamp='1375868187' post='2166593']
Frank's solo set has often included Genesis material in his solo set. I've seen him do the intro to Dancing With The Moonlit Knight, among others (my memory fails me)

Also he appears on Steve Hackett's recent "Genesis Revisited 2". He sings on Moonlit Knight again, and as well the last section of Supper's Ready ("As Sure As Eggs Is Eggs (Aching Men's Feet)")
[/quote]
The bugger has never done any when I've seen him, but I know he's been working with Hackett. Cheers man.

[mart]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1375881584' post='2166848']
Oof.. just listened to Me & Virgil for the first time in ages. What a great song.

The drumming is fab, and Rutherford's nod to Roger McGuinn in the instrumental break is mint.

I never understood why the band hated it so much...?
...
[/quote]
Y'know, I'd never clocked how Rutherford was channelling McGuinn, so thanks for pointing that out. When I first got into guitars, because of the Genesis influence I was led to 12-strings, and then when you're into 12-strings, McGuinn is a name that keeps coming up. And I never saw much link between them - they both have exceedingly different approaches to the instrument. And yet here they both come together.

As for why the band don't like the song ... I don't really know. I can see the lyrics being thought of as a little too simple, although it's the sort of growing-up story that can be simple and yet profound. And, frankly, it's far from the worst lyric Genesis have recorded (they have done an awful lot of utter stinkers in their time), and the music is really pretty good. Maybe again it had too much of the old Genesis sound, at a time when they were determined to move away from it? It does sound like it could have fitted on Duke, but very definitely not Abacab.

[mart]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1375873253' post='2166680']
Ah, I've got a massive soft spot for Fading Lights. A whole song that just the three of them could play live, and the lyrics are so poignant. Lovely.
[/quote]
Like Floyd's last album being "The Final Cut", I always wondered how conscious Genesis were of this. It's beautiful, in retrospect, for the last song on their last album to be this song. But did they really already know that that was it?

(Yes, I'm aware that a band calling themselves Floyd released another album or two after TFC, and that a band calling themselves Genesis released another album after WCD. But, seriously ... ;-) )

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='mart' timestamp='1375882413' post='2166864']
As for why the band don't like the song ... I don't really know. I can see the lyrics being thought of as a little too simple, although it's the sort of growing-up story that can be simple and yet profound. And, frankly, it's far from the worst lyric Genesis have recorded (they have done an awful lot of utter stinkers in their time), and the music is really pretty good. Maybe again it had too much of the old Genesis sound, at a time when they were determined to move away from it? It does sound like it could have fitted on Duke, but very definitely not Abacab.
[/quote]

The band have said that it's their attempt at a Band (sic) song - you can easily imagine Levon Helm singing it.

It's kind-of up there in the 'Genesis Do Country' pile along with Ballad of Big, That's All, Driving the Last Spike.. Phil has a thing for the Old West.

[toneknob]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1375882063' post='2166861']
The bugger has never done any when I've seen him, but I know he's been working with Hackett. Cheers man.
[/quote]

I'm sure he's done Carpet Crawl as well, but can't find any setlists to remind me. In the meantime, check out this gem.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRu-YnpCYGM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRu-YnpCYGM[/url]

[mart]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1375882615' post='2166872']
The band have said that it's their attempt at a Band (sic) song - you can easily imagine Levon Helm singing it.

It's kind-of up there in the 'Genesis Do Country' pile along with Ballad of Big, That's All, Driving the Last Spike.. Phil has a thing for the Old West.
[/quote]
Yes, and no. Yes, about the Band, and even the name "Virgil" immediately recalls The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down. And so maybe their problem with the song is that they don't remotely come close to pulling that style off the way Robbie Robertson can do so effortlessly. I still can't actually convince myself that Dixie is not a hundred+ years old; it just has such an authentic old-time feel to it.

And no, it's not Genesis do country. Sorry, I've had to explain this to a few people over the years, but it's really quite simple. Look, country is bad. Anything that is listenable, or even good, therefore, is not country. Some people don't seem to get this. When I explain that some Johnny Cash stuff is good, and therefore, those songs are not country, they look at me like I'm a little bit deranged. I don't understand it myself, as it seems so simple. So anyway, M&V, BoB, TA, etc are all pretty good, and therefore not country. Ok! ;-) :-)

[ras52]

[quote name='mart' timestamp='1375882565' post='2166870']
Like Floyd's last album being "The Final Cut", I always wondered how conscious Genesis were of this. It's beautiful, in retrospect, for the last song on their last album to be this song. But did they really already know that that was it?

(Yes, I'm aware that a band calling themselves Floyd released another album or two after TFC, and that a band calling themselves Genesis released another album after WCD. But, seriously ... ;-) )
[/quote]

Veering OT, but The Final Cut is arguably a Waters solo album in Floyd's clothing... whereas Genesis always sounded like a band rather than one person's "vision".

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='mart' timestamp='1375883212' post='2166884']
And no, it's not Genesis do country. Sorry, I've had to explain this to a few people over the years, but it's really quite simple. Look, country is bad. Anything that is listenable, or even good, therefore, is not country. Some people don't seem to get this. When I explain that some Johnny Cash stuff is good, and therefore, those songs are not country, they look at me like I'm a little bit deranged. I don't understand it myself, as it seems so simple. So anyway, M&V, BoB, TA, etc are all pretty good, and therefore not country. Ok! ;-) :-)
[/quote]

OK - Genesis do American roots music :-)

[ras52]

[quote name='mart' timestamp='1375883212' post='2166884']
And no, it's not Genesis do country. Sorry, I've had to explain this to a few people over the years, but it's really quite simple. Look, country is bad. Anything that is listenable, or even good, therefore, is not country. Some people don't seem to get this. When I explain that some Johnny Cash stuff is good, and therefore, those songs are not country, they look at me like I'm a little bit deranged. I don't understand it myself, as it seems so simple. So anyway, M&V, BoB, TA, etc are all pretty good, and therefore not country. Ok! ;-) :-)
[/quote]
Ah, that reminds of a convo I had recently - when I said I like soul but not blues, I was asked, what's the difference? My answer was if I liked it it was soul, if not then it was blues

[marcus bell]

Undertow from and then there were three is also a powerful old tune

[mart]

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1375883427' post='2166887']
Veering OT, but The Final Cut is arguably a Waters solo album in Floyd's clothing... whereas Genesis always sounded like a band rather than one person's "vision".
[/quote]
Yes, TFC is as close to, say, Pros & Cons of Hitch-hiking, as Momentary Lapse is to About Face. So there's a strong argument for saying The Wall was the last actual Floyd album. But that didn't fit my argument ... ;-)

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1375883429' post='2166889']
OK - Genesis do American roots music :-)
[/quote]
Ah, now, that's a term I can cope with! :-)

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1375883703' post='2166894']
Ah, that reminds of a convo I had recently - when I said I like soul but not blues, I was asked, what's the difference? My answer was if I liked it it was soul, if not then it was blues
[/quote]
At last, someone else who understands!

[mart]

Now, back on topic: of the 3x3 EP, although Me & Virgil is good, I always loved You Might Recall. I don't know what it is, but something about the jangly sound and wierd-sounding chords just grabbed me.

[Dave Vader]

My first intro to genesis was Invisible Touch on top of the pops.
it was not a good intro.
Next thing I remember is Phil Collins doing "you can wear my hat" on the same show. Never got past the Collins connection sadly.

Growing up in the 80s makes you not like previously great bands who were doing cack songs at the time (please also see owner of a lonely heart, for why I don't really listen to Yes, and that awful song about the Radio for why I don't listen to Rush)

I do like what I've heard of the early stuff, but not passionate about it, sorry, will try harder, as I feel i should like them more.