CalJock Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 So I'm tired of borrowing other peoples cabs at gigs, decided it's high time I get my own. I'm currently using one of the ashdown mibass 550's and I'm playing with an instrumental metal band, a fairly straight up rock band and a noise-rock thing, all of which have loud drummers. I was just wondering what people thought would work? I've been leaning towards a couple 2x12's and thought I might take advantage of the tc electronic deal going on so i'd buy the Bh500 and 2 bc2x12s then move the head on to save a bit of cash. Nothing's certain though. So what do people think would be right? I'm really open to different speaker configs or different cabs. I'm working on a budget of around between £500-£600 but cheaper is better, I also need whatever I get to be fairly portable as i don't drive Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 I'd be looking at a better 2x12 (or 2x10 or 1x15) that is lighter. Maybe a TC RS cab, or have a look at the 2nd hand section on here, you could pick up a pretty decent single lightweight cab that could cover all you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalJock Posted August 4, 2013 Author Share Posted August 4, 2013 Will a single 2x10/2x12 give me enough volume in a loud band situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) [quote name='CalJock' timestamp='1375652601' post='2163999'] ....Will a single 2x10/2x12 give me enough volume in a loud band situation?.... [/quote] How loud is loud? My 2p is that a 210 isn't enough for a full on band gig with a loud drummer, but a good 212 (Barefaced, GK, Genz or Berg) will probably be enough. I used to play through 2 210 Berg cabs and they moved enough air to sound great at any volume. To get a powerful bass sound and combat noisy, overdriven guitarists at volume you need more speakers so you can move enough air without getting close to farting out. So a good 410 or 2 210's would definitely work, IMO. Edited August 4, 2013 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) The two 212s would be a good option. A 212 is enough to gig with for most situations - pubs etc - so for most of the time you would only need head and one cab. If playing a very large stage then bring the other cab along. That said, as xgsjx and chris b have said, a better 212 would be a good bet as well, as that would cover even more, and really, anywhere needing more should have FOH and on-stage monitoring. As would a 410. But for portability, a 212 is probably lighter, and that bit smaller. May be worth checking these out: http://basschat.co.uk/topic/212014-tks-engineering-112-cabs-new-to-the-uk-review/ 10kg for a 112, 20 kg for a 212. Now that is portable. Edited August 4, 2013 by Lozz196 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) I've found a good 2x10 to easily beat an average 4x10 in both volume & sound quality. My new band has a drummer who sounds like he uses maces for sticks & 2 guitarists, one whom likes to try & drown out the drummer & I have had no troubles being heard. Those cabs that Lozz linked to could be worth checking out. Edited August 5, 2013 by xgsjx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 That must have been a pretty poor 410! Define "good" and "average". To be any help to the OP we should be assuming we are comparing apples and apples. The point is that more speakers move more air and create more volume and more tone as a result. In my opinion speakers make a better sound when they're working comfortably, not when they're working flat out. I don't know the gear but the TC deal sounds good on the face of it. 2 212's would do the job, IMO. I'm assuming the OP has a combo? If so, a better option might be to add an extension cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalJock Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 Thanks for all the advice so far! Those TKS cabs look very nice, but their standard 212 looks like it's coming in at £430, which means I'd only be able to run 1 of them. This is where I get confused, due to the specs one TKS cab them matches 2 bc212s in terms of power handling and impedance, but it has less speakers so is it then not going to be able to physically push as much air and therefore be quieter? Or am i just being dumb? Chris_b i've not got a combo, just a head, got tired of lugging a trace 4x10 combo to gigs so downsized considerably to the mibass 550 head and then a band broke up and I wasn't gigging enough to warrant a cab or 2 taking up space in my (rather small) flat, but now things are going better I need some speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 If you can wait a few months, call Alex at Barefaced Bass, also in Brighton, and discuss cabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShergoldSnickers Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 [quote name='CalJock' timestamp='1375689782' post='2164177'] Thanks for all the advice so far! Those TKS cabs look very nice, but their standard 212 looks like it's coming in at £430, which means I'd only be able to run 1 of them. This is where I get confused, due to the specs one TKS cab them matches 2 bc212s in terms of power handling and impedance, but it has less speakers so is it then not going to be able to physically push as much air and therefore be quieter? Or am i just being dumb? [/quote] You are not being dumb - just asking the right questions. Higher spec cabs will use higher spec speakers. As well as increasing the diameter - and surface area - of a speaker, and moving from 10" to 12" speakers for example, the other way of getting more volume is to increase the amount of back and forth movement a speaker can make. If you increase this distance, you are moving more air. Cheap speakers tend to have only a small number of millimetres of pistonic movement available, and will soon horribly distort the sound when fed too much power. This pistonic excursion distance is known technically as the X-max value. Generally, the higher the better, although as it increases, the power necessary to make use of this capacity also increases. You need a bigger amp to take advantage. Given a particular diameter speaker, and an X-max value, the volume of air that can be potentially moved can be worked out. This is known as the Volume Displacement or Vd figure. The bigger that is, the higher sound pressure level you'll get. By use of quality speakers, it's possible to get a 2x12 cab that will shift as much air as a decent 4x10 or even a 6x10 that use inferior speakers. This is not a cheap option though, as using high quality speakers in a cab design will push up the cost. Speaker and cab design is a complex subject, and this is not the whole story, but it gives an indication of some of the factors involved. There are a few manufacturers who do design cabs properly, [url="http://barefacedbass.com"]Barefaced[/url] and [url="http://www.extendedaudiodesign.co.uk"]EAD[/url] are two that immediately spring to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GremlinAndy Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 There are quite a few Schroeder 2x12 cabs on the for sale section... They are around the £400 mark (used) but you'd be hard pressed to get a more audible cab in a band situation for the size/weight. (Look for the 1212L as the "L" means the speakers are Neodymium, and the cab is an easy 1 handed lift) I love the schroeders... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1375688787' post='2164161'] That must have been a pretty poor 410! Define "good" and "average". To be any help to the OP we should be assuming we are comparing apples and apples. The point is that more speakers move more air and create more volume and more tone as a result. In my opinion speakers make a better sound when they're working comfortably, not when they're working flat out. I don't know the gear but the TC deal sounds good on the face of it. 2 212's would do the job, IMO. I'm assuming the OP has a combo? If so, a better option might be to add an extension cab. [/quote] I had a Trace Elliot 4x10, so not a poor cab, but certainly not a great cab. I replaced it with a Markbass 2x10. So a mix of better cab design & better quality drivers with a much longer excursion makes all the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterfire666 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) one good 2x12 is definitely enough for metal, i play in 2 metal bands and have never come close to bieng too quiet, in fact i dont think there has been a single gig where i havent beeen asked to turn down by the sound guy. (and both drummers really hit em) it does depend on the cab though, they vary a lot, if you do a bit of research and bide your time im sure you will be able to pick somethin up which is more than adequate for your budget, good luck with the shopping :^) a bit bigger but not heavy at all, it might be worth checking this out, great cab though http://basschat.co.uk/topic/211807-tech-soundsystems-4x12-nd-412-s-cover/ Edited August 5, 2013 by winterfire666 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1375652300' post='2163994'] I'd be looking at a better 2x12 (or 2x10 or 1x15) that is lighter. Maybe a TC RS cab, or have a look at the 2nd hand section on here, you could pick up a pretty decent single lightweight cab that could cover all you need. [/quote] I would also considere Barefaced, and keeping your existing head. I just got my Compact (1x15), and it's extremely light and portable... but boy, it's huge sounding! That 1x15" sounded comparable to a (and better than some) typical 4x10" cab. There are other great cabs around too... but this is the one I just got and I think it's really good. I used last night the Compact with a MarkBass CMD121P combo... so two good cabs: 1x15 and 1x12. It was huge sounding (playing in a mid size bar with no PA reinforcement) and I had plenty of power left that I did not need. A good 2x12 or two 1x12 cabs could be a great solution too. Good speakers with good drivers are not cheap, but if you want light, small and powerful, it'll cost. If you don't care about size/weight... the options increase. Edited August 5, 2013 by mcnach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1375653747' post='2164012'] How loud is loud? My 2p is that a 210 isn't enough for a full on band gig with a loud drummer,.............. I used to play through 2 210 Berg cabs and they moved enough air to sound great at any volume. To get a powerful bass sound and combat noisy, overdriven guitarists at volume you need more speakers so you can move enough air without getting close to farting out. So a good 410 or 2 210's would definitely work, IMO. [/quote] This.. ... I use 2x210 for my best gigs and 2x112 for the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalJock Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 cheers everyone, this' really helping! I think i'm set on a pair of 2x12's now, just gotta shop around and find the right ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GremlinAndy Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) [color=#FFA500]I just noticed this too:[/color] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/211807-tech-soundsystems-4x12-nd-412-s-cover/"][color=#0000FF]http://basschat.co.u...nd-412-s-cover/[/color][/url] [color=#FFA500]Worth consideration... trully awesome cabs. And 4 x 12 plus around your budget...[/color] [color=#FFA500]Lightweight too... This would be all the cab you'd ever need. Full-stop![/color] [color=#FFA500]Hmmm Can *[b]I[/b]* justify [i]another[/i] cab?[/color] Edited August 5, 2013 by GremlinAndy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalJock Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 [quote name='GremlinAndy' timestamp='1375714082' post='2164613'] I just noticed this too: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/211807-tech-soundsystems-4x12-nd-412-s-cover/"]http://basschat.co.u...nd-412-s-cover/[/url] Worth consideration... trully awesome cabs. And 4 x 12 plus around your budget... [/quote] That is a bit nice looking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 You can get Marshall VBC412 pretty cheap used 4ohms and fekking loud too. It's a great cab for rock & metal. Still my favourite cab in the universe. It's 110lb though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 [quote name='GremlinAndy' timestamp='1375694247' post='2164262'] There are quite a few Schroeder 2x12 cabs on the for sale section... They are around the £400 mark (used) but you'd be hard pressed to get a more audible cab in a band situation for the size/weight. (Look for the 1212L as the "L" means the speakers are Neodymium, and the cab is an easy 1 handed lift) I love the schroeders... [/quote] Good recommendation, these are great cabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 [quote name='GremlinAndy' timestamp='1375714082' post='2164613'] [color=#FFA500]I just noticed this too:[/color] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/211807-tech-soundsystems-4x12-nd-412-s-cover/"][color=#0000FF]http://basschat.co.u...nd-412-s-cover/[/color][/url] [color=#FFA500]Worth consideration... trully awesome cabs. And 4 x 12 plus around your budget...[/color] [/quote] Definitely! South London to Brighton has to be do-able... if he would only post it I think I would have made an offer myself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1375714917' post='2164631'] You can get Marshall VBC412 pretty cheap used 4ohms and fekking loud too. It's a great cab for rock & metal. Still my favourite cab in the universe. It's 110lb though.... [/quote] Remember he doesn't drive. Could provide some laughs for the public though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalJock Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 At least I'd definitely get a seat on the train! Just gotta wait for some cash to come through but If I do go for it (or anything else that i have to travel for) I'll be sure to photograph the return journey so we can all laugh at the ridiculous lengths we go to for gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1375738406' post='2165098'] Remember he doesn't drive. Could provide some laughs for the public though! [/quote] ha! Oops!! But then again - if some eijit with a shed can make a settee that hits 70mph... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1375740252' post='2165139'] ha! Oops!! But then again - if some eijit with a shed can make a settee that hits 70mph... [/quote] Motorised bass cab... I like your thinking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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