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MoJoKe

In Ear Monitors - help needed...

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18 hours ago, intime-nick said:

the UE6 is warmer in the highs and the LUGS quads possibly more detailed but I don’t think you can go wrong with either option to be honest  

Balanced armatures vs dynamics!

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On 29/08/2019 at 17:03, EBS_freak said:

And does Graham still go on about how expensive IEMs are nonsense? :P

Jamie is worse. He's still not convinced lol.

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8 hours ago, mrtcat said:

Jamie is worse. He's still not convinced lol.

Pfft.

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Just a heads up. I'm going to be helping Paul out at the Drum Show in Manchester on the Custom IEM stand on 21/22 September (I know it's the same weekend as the bass and guitar show in London... somebody didn't really think that one through did they? Some vendors/manufacturers can't be in more than one place at once... but hey).

Anybody want to check out the offerings from JH, 1964 and UE, come along and I can hook you up and talk all things IEM with you.

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I'll see you there on the Sunday, ticket bought! I've just sold my 535s to make the move to custom based on your tips so thanks! Spoke with a chap at CIEM who suggested he thinks I might prefer the ue 5s over the 6s, but will try on the day, alongside any other you guys think might be suited. Really looking forward to it. 

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There's a number of things at play - the actual sound of the IEM - not all IEMs have the same sound signature - but the reason I push the UE6 over the UE5, is the extra headroom that the UE6 will offer over the UE5. The UE5 will sound slightly tighter due to the use of balanced armatures over dynamic drivers... but the UE6 gives you the headroom comparable to a quad balanced armature (UE11 - quad balanced armature), at approximately 350 quid less.

It depends what sort of budget you want to spend... and as I always say, don't put anything in your ears that you don't want to pay the money for... as it can be agonising to drop down to budget having heard up the range!

 

edit - headroom, particularly in the bass, means less chance of distortion (even if not audible - it’s less tiring for your ears)

Edited by EBS_freak
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4 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

come along and I can hook you up and talk all things IEM with you.

It's a drum show. You'll have to shout all things IEM.

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10 minutes ago, mrtcat said:

It's a drum show. You'll have to shout all things IEM.

I'll have my ear plugs.

And at least it won't be like standing in a staple gun factory like the bass show will!

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1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

There's a number of things at play - the actual sound of the IEM - not all IEMs have the same sound signature - but the reason I push the UE6 over the UE5, is the extra headroom that the UE6 will offer over the UE5. The UE5 will sound slightly tighter due to the use of balanced armatures over dynamic drivers... but the UE6 gives you the headroom comparable to a quad balanced armature (UE11 - quad balanced armature), at approximately 350 quid less.

It depends what sort of budget you want to spend... and as I always say, don't put anything in your ears that you don't want to pay the money for... as it can be agonising to drop down to budget having heard up the range!

 

edit - headroom, particularly in the bass, means less chance of distortion (even if not audible - it’s less tiring for your ears)

Definitely agree with the price point piece. The ue 6s are probably as much as I can go to but at least there's still a couple of options then. 

In terms of headroom, I did wonder if I have my setup right... I run the aux out at around - 6db, and each of the channels is at unity or less, but then on the Sennheiser pack I'm running the output at about 25%, and that is still quite loud. The sound in that setup has been excellent, but when I see all the posts about additional headroom (noting your point around distortion) I wondered if I'm running everything correctly? 

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37 minutes ago, Rik (ESA) said:

Definitely agree with the price point piece. The ue 6s are probably as much as I can go to but at least there's still a couple of options then. 

In terms of headroom, I did wonder if I have my setup right... I run the aux out at around - 6db, and each of the channels is at unity or less, but then on the Sennheiser pack I'm running the output at about 25%, and that is still quite loud. The sound in that setup has been excellent, but when I see all the posts about additional headroom (noting your point around distortion) I wondered if I'm running everything correctly? 

Yeah - out of all the shows I've done, I would say the most popular are the UE6s, particularly with bass players and drummers (which is not big surprise given that's who the piece was targetted at - and when you hear the UE5 next to the UE6, you'll hear the bigger bass, that drummers and bass players tend (but not always) go for).

JH11s (historically the cheapest quad BA) are always of interest and I presume the slightly cheaper A4t will now come into play a bit more now that the price of the JH11 and A4t are more similar now. The A2e and A3, although great pieces don't tend to come into play as much as the show prices (again historically - don't know what's going on this year at this stage) makes the UE6 a bit of a no brainer when you hear the bass response in comparison to the aforementioned piece. Remember, there's no wrong piece - it's what you like the sound of best... but as a bassplayer who uses IEMs strictly for monitoring, I tend to steer people towards headroom in the bass... as that is going to be the thing that you crave the most... yet is the most demanding for IEMs to produce. It's like comparing a 1x10 cab to an 8x10 cab. They can both produce bass... but to get the same volume, one is going to be running quite hard, the other will be more controlled and barely on tickover.

As for your query about your setup... the answer - I'm sorry to say it - is it depends. If you can't hear distortion and the meters aren't in the red, the chances are, is that you are OK.

What you have to remember is this. If you are running everything at unity, and everything is touching 0db, wave theory tells you that you are doing to have some additions of frequency bands that will take you over 0db and into distortion. For example, if you have the peak of a wave at 50Hz (which is hitting unity), on one channel combining with another wave of 50Hz (which is hitting unity) - they are going to add together to sum to greater than unity... which will push you into the realms of distortion. The good news is, with the meters on a (presumably) digital mixer, you should be able to see the output on the aux not being greater than unity. Likewise, you have to change the sensitivity on the IEM transmitter so the AF input is not peaking. I always aim for 3dB under so you have a good signal to noise ratio... but not going into clipping (and distortion/limiting) if the band happens to dig in or whatever and peak over unity. Without seeing the equipment in front of me, it's hard to say what is happening on your setup... but if you meters are all clear of clipping, you are good. I tend to tell my band, if you need more of something in your mix, turn up your pack and turn the rest of the instruments down on the mix going to your aux.... otherwise the danger is that people keep pushing the sliders up and up and wonder why it's distorting... whilst their wireless pack is on tickover... (idiots).

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3 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

I'll have my ear plugs.

And at least it won't be like standing in a staple gun factory like the bass show will!

really?  Worse I would have thought.... more like a battlefield!

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20 hours ago, MoJoKe said:

really?  Worse I would have thought.... more like a battlefield!

It's more bearable than the bass show... unless you happen to be stood next to some cymbals.

I find the underlying subby drone at the bass shows the most fatiguing... and the staple guns the most annoying.

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Thanks again Russell, great to meet you and pick your brain; invaluable guidance today and really looking forward to getting going with the UE6s! 

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Afternoon all, I'm after some recommendations (again). Currently using wired IEM packs P1 & P2's. But the wires are getting in the way and no a good option for one particular show. Most of the time the sound co, will be supplying wireless packs, but there are a few where we need to supply them.

My question is are LD wireless systems any good? I've spoke to singers who say they are good, but not any bass players that have used them. Currently I can't stretch to the sennheiser system and I will need something before I can stretch to that.

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45 minutes ago, natjag said:

Afternoon all, I'm after some recommendations (again). Currently using wired IEM packs P1 & P2's. But the wires are getting in the way and no a good option for one particular show. Most of the time the sound co, will be supplying wireless packs, but there are a few where we need to supply them.

My question is are LD wireless systems any good? I've spoke to singers who say they are good, but not any bass players that have used them. Currently I can't stretch to the sennheiser system and I will need something before I can stretch to that.

On 24/06/2019 at 10:54, Osiris said:

@Les for cheap and cheerful wireless in ears I can highly recommend the LD MEI1000 G2 system, I use mine with the mandatory KZ ZS10's and have no issues with sound quality. The lows are deep and powerful without being bloated and the highs are clear, they can get a little sharp if you really push them but nothing a touch of high end cut on the monitor mix can't resolve. To my ear there a bit of a dip in the upper mids which I suspect is down to the ZS10's, but this is no bad thing as it helps ease any ear fatigue by the end of the night. 

My ZS10's were from Amazon too!

Likewise @EBS_freak has warned me away from the cheaper wireless systems but after having a try out with our guitarists LD MEI 100 G2 (the 1000 is stereo whereas the 100 is dual mono, I think?) I was really impressed. I was expecting something that was probably going to be of a similar quality to FM radio but to my ears the quality is much better, maybe not quite CD quality but probably not far off. And once you're in the moment on the gig and are not focusing on the quality of the sound so much as listening to what's going on then you'll find you can hear everything clearly anyway, which is surely the whole point! I picked my LD system up new for less that £200 in the black Friday sales last year, but the going rate seems to be around £250 new, which is still a great price, IMO. I can't comment on how they compare to the more expensive systems as I've not tried them but for me and the gigs I do (weekend warrior with a mix of pub and function gigs) they're more than good enough. I suspect to get any significant improvement you're going to have to spunk around 10 times as much on a system, but for under £300 including the ZS10's, I think it's a no brainer. The LD also comes with a rack mount kit too. 

Does this help? :lol:

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@intime-nick is probably a good person to speak to re:LD as I haven't really had that long time on them to A/B. Nick went from LD to Sennheiser and believe he A/Bed them in detail. I've never done the side by side test - but do much prefer the audio reproduction from the Sennheiser.

Remember wireless is as much about the RF performance as well as the audio. Hopefully Nick will give you a clearer insight. As a trend, I would say the cheaper wireless systems that I have tried don't have the the RF performance and audio reproduction that I wish for (e.g. drop outs, fuzzies and in terms of audio, the bass and treble reproduction is not where I want it to be (particularly in the treble where it can be harsh on the ears).

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sorry for the delay in replying to this

yes, I used an LD Systems MEI 100 IEM Tx/Rx before i got my Sennheiser EW300G3  (LD was this https://www.ld-systems.com/en/series/mei-100-g2-series/4239/mei-100-g2?c=2625)

I bought it as an entry-level system into IEMs and had no real complaints for the money at all - RF performance seemed OK (albeit i was the only one in the band at the time with IEMs), sound seemed adequate (no massive loss at either end of the spectrum) - I was using SE215s at the time so read into that what you will but as a stepping stone onto the slippery slope of IEMs, it was great.  You get a rack mount kit with it which is nice (i have all my gear racked in the PA mixer rack and no amp/pedals/anything as it all goes through the XR18 and it's internal processing)

Compared to the EW300G3 it's a classic case of you get what you pay for - EW sounds better - lower noise floor, better overall sound quality, better build quality (although i'd still prefer a removable antenna on the Rx) - just better all round.  I will say i paid around £550 for my EW300G3 - i believe they are a lot more than that nowadays (and the newer G4 system more so)

To summarise, the LD system was great as it showed the potential for what IEM systems can do (for me) in a band environment and the Sennhesier system is a step up from there - i can't see me replacing the EW300 for a very long time - it's a proper bit of kit.  If you're not sure about getting into wireless IEMs, i'd always say go with something better than the low-end stuff (the newer LD stuff looks really good) and take it from there - the most important thing is well-spec'd CIEMs and (if you have the aux outs) a stereo setup from a digital mixer - that's when you get into the really great stuff !

Edited by intime-nick

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In ear set up from last night . New porter and davies platform , 2nd gig for it . Wow , so impressed !!! . The missing link for me . Can’t recommend them highly enough . Taken 2 years to get here . Such a tough journey . Just need to get the drummers bass drum and snare pumped through it now . Like a lot of bass players , wasn’t to fussed about standing on a platform , but I’ve disguised it a bit with my pedalboard a bit . At 54 years old and a bit old school , at first wasn’t impressed with the in ears idea , but now a convert . Big shout to ebs freak and gunsfreddy for your help and advice 🙏🏼14E5FB55-1228-4305-8D82-A3D09AD8923A.thumb.jpeg.2a4f4fc4ae2554ada2fce721d8f1f86f.jpeg 

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