discreet Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 [quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1362569836' post='2001385'] Drop the muff for a couple of gigs. [/quote] I will - she was getting on my nerves, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger2611 Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Your problem may well be where your sound is forming, a larger bass speaker is designed to project the sound hence why your audience will tell you it sounds great but you are not hearing it that way, I suffered the same problem in the past....solved it, had a fantastic sound everywhere I played, sold what solved the problem and dispite owning quality gear again now I still find the same issues are back...what solved the problem...a Mesa Boogie 1516 cab with a mix of small speakers (forming the sound closer to you) and bigger speakers projecting the sound to the audience and the other big advantage was the cab stood tall so the speakers were throwing the sound at my body rather than my kneecaps. I have improved things with my current set up by putting the 1x10 below the main cab which helps throw the sound at me rather than my legs and still keeps the sound anchored to the floor and I certainly feel it improves things. I hope this helps a little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chest Rockwell Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 hey all, Unfortunately as we tend to play standard rock-gig venues, where the bass cab is, or even what type of cab it is, is rarely up to me. it all depends on the headline band, whoever supplied the gear, how much room we have, etc. What Im trying to do is standardise/control my experience, given that EVERYTHING except what I carry in, is unknown, and possibly crap, somewhere along the chain. The chain being from the DI out of my OTB to the sound coming out of the PA out front or onstage. btw, My OTB settings are generally Treble just off full, Middle = 0 and Bass on full (though bass usually comes down a bit at gigs) - that's a perfect setup during practice. If i can control it using gear, or if i can control it by having a better understanding of how to adjust my sound based on what im hearing, WITHOUT breaking possibly a decent sound that the audience hears, all the better. it seems to be rather a hit and miss affair to be honest. It seems like our best gigs have been when we've had absolutely towering cabs to play through! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chest Rockwell Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 p.s. my Jazz bass does bring the beef We're at c# standard, then drop the C# to B. so pretty low. i give the bass just enough edge to not be clean, but not so much that we're all fuzz. the guitars often seem too trebly for me anyway, i would say that though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Having had an OTB, and used it with the same eq - albeit with a Precision - that sound was great on its own, but I found it got lost in the mix, just being wumph underneath everything else. Aftre working on it a bit I ended up with a sound I wasn`t keen on, hearing the bass on its own - everything at 12 o`clock - but with the band it was just right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 I don't have an amp or cab. I have a POD X3 LIVE that goes direct to the FoH desk. On stage I rely on whatever monitors are available (not always a big bass sound, but fine really), and if there's an amp with a power amp send / return I'll sling another POD output into the return for a bit of controllable stage pumping bass power. It's sometimes a bit hit and miss at unfamiliar venues with weak monitors, but as long as I can hear myself I'm alright. Most of the time it's fine and I can rest assured the FoH gets my same big old bass tones at every venue or studio. The only addition I would like would be a titchy but powerful power amp and a small cab like a Barefaced Midget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chest Rockwell Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 I should probably have gone through a few of your posts and picked up on a few points, but just to reiterate... There's no issue with my sound or gear or where I sit in an equal mix, when we practice. I can meet, match and beat the guys for volume if I so require. A beautiful place to be This issue if purely trying to get a standard sound on stage, or some kind of knowledge where I know what Im dealing with when I get an anomaly and know how to deal with it. Im kinda leaning towards a few things... 1. Maybe look in to a DI type SANSAMP 'controller' 2. Get on the floor during soundcheck/line check and see if the FOH sound is good - I have been doing this 3. Be confident with the inhouse soundguy and tell him 'what the hell is that feedback/reverb/radio 5 live coming through the monitors- sort it out please' 4. read all your comments, make notes, do research and keep learning!! trouble is, as anyone knows, you get zero time to fiddle about, so it's hard to learn. I dont wanna be 'that guy' saying 'up a bit, down a bit', so it's all kinda... ARGH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chest Rockwell Posted March 6, 2013 Author Share Posted March 6, 2013 btw, here's a live clip which at the start shows what the bass SHOULD sound like going from clean to 'heavy'. it drops back from a long section in the middle. obviously the recorded sound is from a phone/camera, a little boomy but it's a good balance. this was a great simple setup, no hassle, wide room, easy. excuse the screaming womem at the start! TBH, I think a lot of the time it's down to acoustics and the sound guy 'getting' it. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sArl8F4kM00"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sArl8F4kM00[/url] please excuse all the 'me me my band' stuff. its purely for illustrative porpoises Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerstodge Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1362567133' post='2001334'] Beaten to it! [/quote]i wanted to say that but i'm waaay too slow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1362597422' post='2001979'] I don't have an amp or cab. I have a POD X3 LIVE that goes direct to the FoH desk. On stage I rely on whatever monitors are available (not always a big bass sound, but fine really), and if there's an amp with a power amp send / return I'll sling another POD output into the return for a bit of controllable stage pumping bass power. It's sometimes a bit hit and miss at unfamiliar venues with weak monitors, but as long as I can hear myself I'm alright. Most of the time it's fine and I can rest assured the FoH gets my same big old bass tones at every venue or studio. The only addition I would like would be a titchy but powerful power amp and a small cab like a Barefaced Midget. [/quote] I'm happy with my sound coming out of the PA but I use a Hartke kickback10 as my monitor, it's small, portable and points at my ears, Something like this means it isn't hit and miss as you have your own monitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 [quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1362601804' post='2002059'] I'm happy with my sound coming out of the PA but I use a Hartke kickback10 as my monitor, it's small, portable and points at my ears, Something like this means it isn't hit and miss as you have your own monitor. [/quote] Agreed, hence my 'need' for a power amp and Midget. However, there's no chance I'll be carting that about on London transport I'm happy to take my chances with the house monitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 [quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1362602160' post='2002072'] Get a Q7 mate, great for yer gear ! [/quote] I would rather fellate a rotting llama than be seen driving an Audi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1362602527' post='2002084'] fellate a rotting llama [/quote] Band name competition winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 (edited) [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1362602937' post='2002094'] Band name competition winner. [/quote] Pump The Dead Camel edges it for me Has a better ring to it Edited March 6, 2013 by xilddx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1362603077' post='2002099'] Pump The Dead Camel edges it for me... [/quote] What is it with you and ungulates? [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1362603077' post='2002099'] Has a better ring to it... [/quote] I'm not even going to go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkin Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 [quote name='Chest Rockwell' timestamp='1362596729' post='2001955'] btw, My OTB settings are generally Treble just off full, Middle = 0 and Bass on full (though bass usually comes down a bit at gigs) - that's a perfect setup during practice. [/quote] So seriously scooped, with pretty much no mids at all then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chest Rockwell Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1362599385' post='2002010'] Btw, I'm assuming you are doing your own sound and don't have a sound man [/quote] it's always whoever's in house. we're a DIY, plug and play, local rock band, 30 gigs and rarely step out of the village! our village is Cardiff tho and there's plenty going on here. quite popular mind, on the innerweb [quote name='barkin' timestamp='1362608327' post='2002218'] So seriously scooped, with pretty much no mids at all then ? [/quote] yup! I've always liked my sound like that, even on stereos/graphic equalisers. if bass is too boomy/muddy or high end i'll increase the turn back the bass or treble, but mids has always been a 'dont like it' thing for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 well that's probably your problem! It might be fine at practise where you can have your favorite cab in your favorite position etc. but if you're having problems with your sound on stage then you need to play with your EQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Yup problem identified. No way is that going to work live. Its not a wavelength or acoustics thing, we are talking about you being a few feet from the cab after all, its a Fletcher-Munsen curves thing. We hear mids best, when things get really really loud are ears try to save themselves there are muscles that contract to limit the amount of sound bearing down on the old ear drums. With no mids (how can you make out any notes that your playing?? Its beyond me!) you are giving yourself no chance of hearing your bass. Furthermore you are presenting the soudn guy with the nightmare of massive bass spill into every mic on stage, yes he can filter it on a lot of mics but no tthe kick drum for instance, or too much on the guitar without castrating that too. The FOH guy will eq the signal he gets however he likes, if out front the punters love it its not much to do with how you set the rig up on stage. Its all about the knob twiddler behind the desk. If hes good and knows the venue and kit then the result will be great, if he isnt then..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chest Rockwell Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Chest Rockwell' timestamp='1362652518' post='2002683'] [/quote] No need for that! Plenty of people favour a scooped bass sound (I'm one of 'em), but you have to realise that some compromise will be in order live if anyone's ever going to hear a note you're playing. I have several core sounds sorted for home, rehearsal, recording and gigs, and my gig sound has a shedload more mids and far less low-end than the others. You just need to experiment a bit more at gigs, I reckon. Edit: As has been said, the sound you get in isolation bears NO resemblance to the perceived sound you get live when you're playing with the rest of the band. Edited March 7, 2013 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I`m the same, I`m not a mids fan at all, but I`ve come to accept defeat, and now have concluded that if I have a scratchy/middy sound on-stage, out front they hear what I want to hear. But, if I have the sound on-stage I want hear, the audience just get a load of "wumph" out front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='Chest Rockwell' timestamp='1362645220' post='2002492'] it's always whoever's in house. we're a DIY, plug and play, local rock band, 30 gigs and rarely step out of the village! our village is Cardiff tho and there's plenty going on here. quite popular mind, on the innerweb yup! I've always liked my sound like that, even on stereos/graphic equalisers. if bass is too boomy/muddy or high end i'll increase the turn back the bass or treble, but mids has always been a 'dont like it' thing for me [/quote] Well, you are the architect of your own building collapse then aren't you Mids are a fine art, I have spent hours f***ing around with mids on my patches, and you MUST do it with music on, doing it in isolation doesn't work. All the sexiest bass sounds are created by people crafting them on their own, the soloists, put those solo sounds in a band situation and you're more or less f***ed because they will usually disappear. Isolate the nicest ensemble bass sounds and they usually sound rancid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1362652967' post='2002695'] I`m the same, I`m not a mids fan at all, but I`ve come to accept defeat, and now have concluded that if I have a scratchy/middy sound on-stage, out front they hear what I want to hear. But, if I have the sound on-stage I want hear, the audience just get a load of "wumph" out front. [/quote] just as a matter of interest when the term boost your mids is used what frequency is being talked about, mids is a pretty wide frequency range, I boost mine at about 400 Hz, how about everybody else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chest Rockwell Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 sounds like a right kettle of fishworms!! I just asked my mate, who's played 'millions' of gigs all over the world (plays for Death Metal bands Desecration and Extreme Noise Terror) and he just said 'it happens all the time'... Will definitely start fiddling with mids in practice, at full tilt, moving cabs and my room position... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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