Mornats Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1357401065' post='1922130'] Shouldn't we all be getting on with some serious study and practice rather than spending our time and money concerning ourselves so deeply with minutiae of guitar/amp/speaker construction? [/quote] Yes. My tone has improved massively since taking lessons with Matt Downer. Much much so than the thousands I've spent on gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapbassSteve Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I'm sure there's a video somewhere of Geddy Lee playing a Precision and still sounding alarmingly like Geddy Lee on his Jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1357410617' post='1922352'] Agreed! Although I own a range of bass gear I really believe I could get by perfectly well with any single one of each of my bass/amp/cab collection. After many years playing I think I can change sound and tone reasonably well by variations of right and left hand techniques and positions. I also think that in a blindfolded test, changing various playing styles would be more easily heard than changing a piece of gear. Frank. [/quote] Yep i think this is spot on and i would agree 100%. Whether its my Thumb or Jazz i reckon i could adjust set up and technique to a point both basses will sound almost the same. Not exactly but to the point a live audience wouldn't really notice what bass it was. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1357439055' post='1922764'] Yes. I sound like me on any gear. Anyone else sounds like themselves on my gear. [/quote] Give me your gear and i'll let you know Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Everyone has their own basic sound. The trick is finding the gear and settings which compliment it best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1357462260' post='1922819'] Everyone has their own basic sound. The trick is finding the gear and settings which compliment it best! [/quote] +1 [quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1357460926' post='1922810'] Give me your gear and i'll let you know Dave [/quote] Lol, nice try! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted January 6, 2013 Author Share Posted January 6, 2013 So, if its all in the fingers and the player ability being more important than the gear why do we have 16,000 topics (with quarter of a million replies) in the Bass Guitar and Amps sections but 1600 topics in the Theory section? If you consider nearly 2,000 in the 'Gear Porn' but 129 in the Groove Library you'd be forgiven for thinking being a bass player was more about having than playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1357487437' post='1923285'] So, if its all in the fingers and the player ability being more important than the gear why do we have 16,000 topics (with quarter of a million replies) in the Bass Guitar and Amps sections but 1600 topics in the Theory section? If you consider nearly 2,000 in the 'Gear Porn' but 129 in the Groove Library you'd be forgiven for thinking being a bass player was more about having than playing. [/quote] Buying gear takes a few moments, I know as I am about to buy a bow and some strings if the boss will let me, learning to read or learning a new skill on an instrument takes months, years or maybe even a lifetime, I started on Lojo's bass clef YTS thread in Nov 2010, I am the only person left doing it and I am on page 20 of the reading book thats less than 10 pages a year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1357487437' post='1923285'] So, if its all in the fingers and the player ability being more important than the gear why do we have 16,000 topics (with quarter of a million replies) in the Bass Guitar and Amps sections but 1600 topics in the Theory section? If you consider nearly 2,000 in the 'Gear Porn' but 129 in the Groove Library you'd be forgiven for thinking being a bass player was more about having than playing. [/quote] Because human beings like the quick fix. No one wants to spend years perfecting their playing when you can sound better overnight by changing your bass/leads/effects/amp/cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted January 6, 2013 Author Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357488758' post='1923318'] A good instrument in bad hands is equally bad as a bad instrument in good hands. Everyone should have an instrument according to their level. Harder things will be even harder on bad instruments. I've never seen a genius shine on an unplayable instrument. [/quote] I disagree, a good instrument in bad hands sounds like an instrument in bad hands, a bad instrument in good hands sounds like, well that. These are not equal, Seth Govan will sound tons better than me no matter what instruments we are playing, he just plays better than I do and knows ship loads more than me. There is no way these scenarios are equal. I have seen a genius shine on a cheap guitar, Francis Dunnery was famous for his wizardry on a Squier in early It Bites. It wasn't unplayable, if it was it wouldn't really be a valid example, bit like putting van-Persie in clogs. Actually, maybe footballers are a good example, you would never say Ronaldo's skill is all about his boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted January 6, 2013 Author Share Posted January 6, 2013 No, sorry, still disgree. Ronaldo will still be way better than you or I put together even if he wore sandals and we wore the latest from Nike or whatever! Holdsworth will be way better than you or I if he used the guitar you have there, regardless of what we used. Just because he's world class (got to agree with you there, he is!) doesn't mean he can't play his solos a cheap guitar, in fact makes it more likely that he can. (Also, typing the Americanism 'period' after a sentence does not mean the sentence is correct.) Here's Francis Dunnery talking about his cheap instrument - go from 1:20 on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI5QCem2fx4 To him the instrument is ALL about the playability (and not the pups etc). Put him on a strat shaped thing from Argos and he'll still be amazing! Its him that sounds great, not is guitar. I sat in a living room gig by him, he just used an acoustic to wow us all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 A good musician will get the best available tone out of an instrument. The tone is a combination of the instrument's physics and the players ability to draw the sound out of it. At some point you reach a limit, either the player or the instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Well, I'd swap all of my instruments for one piece of crap bass if I could gain a load of skill in the swap. And I'd guarantee I'd sound much much better than I do now, or would sound if I played a £6,000 bass. I'll mention it again, a bit of tutoring on my fingering technique (stop sniggering!) improved my tone massively. It made my good Overwater sound amazing. Nothing to do with the bass, all to do with how I was playing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted January 6, 2013 Author Share Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) I don't think I'm speculating too much about the comparative abilities of Ronaldo in sandals and you and/or I in football boots. Of course he doesn't play professionally in sandals, why would he? I was agreeing about the bad instruments thing, the Dunnery reference was about him being able to play the cheap guitar rather than its tone. If he can do his whizzy thing he's happy rather than relying on subtleties of tone. I think I'm being unromantic, I'm saying we will all sound better if we go and practice and learn more rather than having strong opinions about details of construction of our gear. Mornats' post reinforced the point very well. Edited January 6, 2013 by 4 Strings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted January 6, 2013 Author Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357497142' post='1923574'] Isnt that quite obvious? Maybe I have too high expectations on people. [/quote] So you agree, bass tone - mostly about the player isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I think everyone who picks up someone else's instrument will change their playing technique to try and achieve their idealised sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloc Riff Nut Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 So it's all in the fingers and not the €€€€'s of gear. Thanks Basschat you just saved me a fortune. On the other hand, now I know I'm always gonna sound average :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357499161' post='1923626'] Perhaps, but will they sound like themselves? [/quote] TBH I don't think that it matters. It's how the whole band sounds like when playing a particular piece of music that is the most important, not any individual player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1357495083' post='1923524'] Well, I'd swap all of my instruments for one piece of crap bass if I could gain a load of skill in the swap. And I'd guarantee I'd sound much much better than I do now, or would sound if I played a £6,000 bass. I'll mention it again, a bit of tutoring on my fingering technique (stop sniggering!) improved my tone massively. It made my good Overwater sound amazing. Nothing to do with the bass, all to do with how I was playing it. [/quote] The Overwater has to be capable of conveying the tone. Re: Francis Dunnery. Are we talking about tone or technique here? The op suggested tone was mostly to do with the player. He didn't suggest ONLY to do with the instrument. So the question is really to what degree does the instrument and gear influence the tone? I would say they're 50/50. Massive amounts of EQ will change the tone radically. Lighter playing will not compensate for 12dB of bass boost. Edited January 6, 2013 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357499854' post='1923655'] Never heard about the "sum of the parts?" Everything is important. [/quote] Exactly, but the end result is the most important thing. Everything else is subordinate to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.I. Joe Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1357504743' post='1923770'] Exactly, but the end result is the most important thing. Everything else is subordinate to it. [/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Yes, I think you're right that the instrument does indeed play a part but I don't think we'll work out how much it affects it, whether it's 50/50 or something different. However, if you're investing in good tone, the value is in investing in your fingers IMO. As my bass tutor said when I mentioned I was thinking of buying another bass "stop being silly, all you have to do is play your current one more". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyd Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I think it's one of those "diminishing returns" arguments. If you take a baseline playable bass like a well-setup Squier for example, the question is how much more money will improve your sound, compared to working on improving technique? My guess is that the latter wins hands down, and everything else is pure GAS for the sake of it. But then I'm very tight with money so I would say that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 [quote name='Inti' timestamp='1357509595' post='1923882'] And how do you plan to subordinate the parts if you don't control them? [/quote] Maybe my attitude comes from the fact that I see myself as a songwriter/composer first, producer/arranger second, and guitarist/bassist/synth player a distant third. Everything I do is foremost for the benefit of the song and not to gratify my ego as a musician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Course it's the player. Of course I had a go on a Stingray yesterday in a studio i was working in, and suddenly all those whizzy 80s slap lines that I work so bloody hard at on my busted up old P-bass became a lot easier, like silly easy. I suspect low action and roundwound strings though, and will experiment with my rickenbastard at a later date.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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