Strings. So many questions!

[Lfalex v1.1]

Yes. At last! something that nearly all of us have in common! We all use strings.
We all have our favourite brands, types and gauges.
For the most part, in use with magnetic or piezo pickups.

Now the questions start!
1) The core of the string. Is it the ferrous part, or do the windings contribute to the output?
2) The core gauges change (get thicker) for heavier strings. But what's the correlation between the string gauge and core gauge?
3) Do the windings just serve to "mass-load" the string to lower its resonant frequency at a given tension, or do they help to structurally support the string
4) To what sorts of tolerances (vis a vis gauge) are strings made? 1%? 2%? Higher? Lower?
5) What effect do finer/coarser windings have?
6) Taper Wound strings can help achieve lower action. Some manufacturers claim they change compliance? Is that true? What other effect/s does it have?
7) Silks. No Silks. Why do some manufacturers use them and not others?
8) Coatings. Do they coat the whole string after it's made or is it coated first and wound later.
9) How many layers of windings does a typical string possess? Does it vary with gauge?
10) Do any bass strings have cast "bullet" ends instead of ball-ends. The bullets are supposed to stop strings from being overwound/badly made AND to make the string more resilient as the core-stretch around the ball-end is effectively eliminated.

Any answers to such imponderables?
If I find any answers, I'll add them.
Otherwise, over to BC for the answers. And hopefully MORE questions!
Thanks in advance, folks....

[BassTractor]

Great thread ... er ... [b]really[/b] great thread, but be careful: one too many threads like these, and we'll start assuming you have a brain.

Here's my take on some of this - a noob's take, but then you still haven't been granted with a better answer and it's now ... what? four hours later or so? (I'm not sure how they do the timing stuff with different time zones)

1) Windings augment mass. More mass means more change in the magnetic field.
2) My guess is that different correlations make for different overtone spectra.
3) My guess is the structural support is near zero or negative, since quite some windings "bite" into the core.
6) In my book, action is a byproduct. The real issue should be compliance, as the lack of it at the ends (bridge and nut) should mean that the intonation is wrong on most of the fretboard.

I'll be very happy to get corrected on this if needed.


best,
bert

[KiOgon]

Where's Jason How when we need him?

[risingson]

Good gravy! Too much info, as long as the strings that I buy sound and feel good then quite frankly that's all I'm interested in. I really don't have the capacity to understand the kind of stuff you're talking about.

[noelk27]

http://www.professorstring.com/index.php#.UL_uSo5y_Hg

[Coilte]

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1354755279' post='1890155']
as long as the strings that I buy sound and feel good then quite frankly that's all I'm interested in.
[/quote]

+1. To each their own, but I'd rather be trying to work on a new song, theory, technique, etc., rather then trying
to figure out how my strings are made.

[chrismuzz]

With regards to coated strings, I know that Elixir coats the entire string after it's made, so that no dirt, grease, or skin cells get stuck between the windings to deaden the sound. Other coated string makers (like DR) just coat the windings so they don't prevent this as well.

[grahamd]

This caused quite a stir. Roger Sadowsky on coated strings

http://btpub.boyd-printing.com/iphone/article.php?id=1115676&id_issue=118550&src=&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Droger%2Bsadowsky%2Bcoated%2Bstrings%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den-gb%26client%3Dsafari

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='grahamd' timestamp='1354801700' post='1890548']
This caused quite a stir. Roger Sadowsky on coated strings

[url="http://btpub.boyd-printing.com/iphone/article.php?id=1115676&id_issue=118550&src=&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Droger%2Bsadowsky%2Bcoated%2Bstrings%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den-gb%26client%3Dsafari"]http://btpub.boyd-pr...client%3Dsafari[/url]
[/quote]

This is really interesting. I haven't noticed any noise using Elixir Nanowebs just yet but I'll look into it.

[Highfox]

[quote name='grahamd' timestamp='1354801700' post='1890548']
This caused quite a stir. Roger Sadowsky on coated strings

[url="http://btpub.boyd-printing.com/iphone/article.php?id=1115676&id_issue=118550&src=&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Droger%2Bsadowsky%2Bcoated%2Bstrings%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den-gb%26client%3Dsafari"]http://btpub.boyd-pr...client%3Dsafari[/url]
[/quote]

I had that problem with some DR Blackbeauties recently. I had the scrathplate and pots off my bass looking for any problems.. changed the srtings and away it went.. Put the same strings on another bass and the noise was back.. urm!
It was more like a crackling than hum for me.

Edit: in fact it's put me off trying anymore coated strings.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Highfox

[BigRedX]

[quote name='grahamd' timestamp='1354801700' post='1890548']
This caused quite a stir. Roger Sadowsky on coated strings

[url="http://btpub.boyd-printing.com/iphone/article.php?id=1115676&id_issue=118550&src=&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Droger%2Bsadowsky%2Bcoated%2Bstrings%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den-gb%26client%3Dsafari"]http://btpub.boyd-pr...client%3Dsafari[/url]
[/quote]

Surely that can be fixed by scraping the coating off at the ball-end?

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1354803836' post='1890600']
Surely that can be fixed by scraping the coating off at the ball-end?
[/quote]

The actual ball will be in contact with the bridge anyways so I guess not

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1354803836' post='1890600']


Surely that can be fixed by scraping the coating off at the ball-end?
[/quote]
I have seen them do that on the tv programme embarrassing bodies, dose of the clap

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1354747379' post='1890065']
Great thread ... er ... [b]really[/b] great thread, but be careful: one too many threads like these, and we'll start assuming you have a brain.


1) Windings augment mass. More mass means more change in the magnetic field. [b]But only if the windings are ferrous..[/b]
2) My guess is that different correlations make for different overtone spectra. [b]Liking this one! [/b]
3) My guess is the structural support is near zero or negative, since quite some windings "bite" into the core. [b] And this one![/b]
6) In my book, action is a byproduct. The real issue should be compliance, as the lack of it at the ends (bridge and nut) should mean that the intonation is wrong on most of the fretboard. [b]Well, sort of. If the action's TOO high, you'll be sharpening the pitch of the string by bending it too far away from its natural position as you fret it[/b]
[/quote]

Cheers, Bert. Some good ideas in there...

[quote name='noelk27' timestamp='1354755713' post='1890160']
[url="http://www.professorstring.com/index.php#.UL_uSo5y_Hg"]http://www.professor...hp#.UL_uSo5y_Hg[/url]
[/quote]

Yes, I've seen that site. But they charge for access to the site...

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1354790492' post='1890331']
With regards to coated strings, I know that Elixir coats the entire string after it's made, so that no dirt, grease, or skin cells get stuck between the windings to deaden the sound. Other coated string makers (like DR) just coat the windings so they don't prevent this as well.
[/quote]

A-ha! So not all coated strings are created equal. Or at least equally...

I'd heard of the static build-up issue with scratch-plates, but I'm not sure if BRX's earthing trick would solve it, as I've no experience of it. It occurs to me that scraping the coating off of an Elixir would defeat the object.
Because they're coated after winding, removing any of the coating introduces the potential for the string to oxidise.
Which leads to....

I reckon the main reasons that strings need changing are (in no order)
Oxidation
Chemical corrosion (from sweat)
Dirt build-up between the windings (hence Flats longevity?)
Physical damage (from plectrum and fretting causing flat spots)
Mechanical failure of core or winding/s due to fatigue

Still just kicking ideas around, but thanks for all the responses so far.

[BigRedX]

No, my initial thought is completely bollocks because it's the electrical connection between the string and the player that is important. Not that between the string and the bridge.

[Lfalex v1.1]

Doesn't the fact that the bridge is grounded (via the bridge earth lead/cable shield (-ve) and the amp) count? Can't that earth the static?
Or is the player a quicker way to ground?

[mart]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1354813345' post='1890779']
No, my initial thought is completely bollocks because it's the electrical connection between the string and the player that is important. Not that between the string and the bridge.
[/quote]
It's both connections that matter, isn't it? You need an electrical path between player and the grounding in the electrics, which is connected to the bridge.