lowballing .. definition and .. is it insulting ?

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Rowley Birkin QC' timestamp='1355426051' post='1898373']
I've just had a strange experience with another BC'er. They advertised a second hand item at £200 plus £27 postage (new cost of item £255 including delivery). As I was looking for one of these, I made an "offer" of £200 to include delivery and a commitment to buy if they accepted.

Eventually got a pm stating that "postage was not included in the price" (I knew that, that's why I made "an offer") which didn't exactly accept or decline the offer, or even open up a negotiation. At that point I decided that for the extra £28 it may well be worth purchasing new so advised the seller of such & pursued it no more.

Within 24hrs the seller then alters the original ad to a total of £196 INCLUDING postage and marks the item SOLD.

Got an identical item now of another BC'er for less still, so I ended up in a better position anyway, but how strange that you'd sell for less than you already had an offer for????

Just as an aside, this has happened on a previous occasion. Perhaps the seller takes the huff that someone has the affront to make them a "realistic" offer so just refuses out of bloody mindedness.........and then is too proud to accept the original offer when they realise that their asking price was a preventing a sale???
[/quote]

That one? how did it get you a warning?

[jaydentaku]

I got wrong the other day for posting a picture of bernard manning which included the word cunut, but with the actual spelling. The mod who slapped my wrist has the word sh*t in his signature.

I didn't make anything of it at the time, I just though it was amusing.

[Wooks79]

[quote name='jaydentaku' timestamp='1355522629' post='1899702']
I got wrong the other day for posting a picture of bernard manning which included the word cunut, but with the actual spelling. The mod who slapped my wrist has the word sh*t in his signature.

I didn't make anything of it at the time, I just though it was amusing.
[/quote]

Haha, well that would wind me up. Gotta remember though, whilst they aren't always spot on, this place runs far far better than most forums I have used, so hats off to them overall!

[jaydentaku]

Well, I could get wound up about it or just see the funny side. I do agree, it is the best moderated forum I use (excluding some minor tardy modding here and there)

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Rowley Birkin QC' timestamp='1355522086' post='1899698']
My situation, posted eralier in this thread, led to the THREAT of an "official warning" by a moderator........who I think needs to get out more!
[/quote]

Luxury!

I had comments deliberately misconstrued and exagerated, completely diverted and then implied it was by me & then banned from OT "for my own good". I doubt the mod involved is even aware of how many other sections that banning also bars you from, wherein I had the answer to quite a lot of points raised but couldn't.
Still, it's their site & you play by their rules is the bottom line...... I've seen worse, & I've seen one site closed for worse.

[Stacker]

A low offer, to me, has to be several hundred pounds below my asking price. Not had any lowballs on here but several shocking ones on ebay, esp when one uses the 'best offer' option. Worst one was for a '73 4001 a few years back: some pi55-taker offered me £500 on it. Offers like that are plain insulting.

[LukeFRC]

A while back I had a my acoustic up for trade. I also mentioned that for a very special bass I could add my electric to a trade. I got two messages in the space of 5 min.

One offered me a tiwanese Yamaha BB for... both guitars and £50
One offered me a japanese Yamaha BB, a Squier japan Jazz and a bass pod thing - for my acousitic.

I had to think quite hard to come up with a polite response to the first one!

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1355653394' post='1900864']
A while back I had a my acoustic up for trade. I also mentioned that for a very special bass I could add my electric to a trade. I got two messages in the space of 5 min.

One offered me a tiwanese Yamaha BB for... both guitars and £50
One offered me a japanese Yamaha BB, a Squier japan Jazz and a bass pod thing - for my acousitic.

I had to think quite hard to come up with a polite response to the first one!
[/quote]

Some people just over-value their gear. I think i said it before, possibly in this thread, about the guy who got quite insulted when i estimated that his squier VM jazz (the one with SD pups) would be worth £200 at best on the second hand market. He insisted that it was worth at least £260, when in fact, you can get them new for £260.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Stacker' timestamp='1355652979' post='1900859']
A low offer, to me, has to be several hundred pounds below my asking price. Not had any lowballs on here but several shocking ones on ebay, esp when one uses the 'best offer' option. Worst one was for a '73 4001 a few years back: some pi55-taker offered me £500 on it. Offers like that are plain insulting.
[/quote]

Why is it "insulting" ?, what does does it cost you to simply ignore said offer ?. I mean especially on ebay you will always get people making low offers, but rather than taking it personally you should treat them as options.

[thepurpleblob]

As long as people are polite and friendly, I couldn't care less what offers people send me. If I don't want to sell at that price I don't have to and it only takes a second to reply "no thank you" or even to try a counter offer. I do get slightly irritated by complete time-wasters who have no intention at all of buying the thing but that's a different issue.

Basically, if you put something up for sale you are opening yourself up to human contact with all its ups and downs. Some people are just not very good at dealing with other people - relax, chances are that nobody is trying to upset you

[hamfist]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' timestamp='1355742049' post='1901954']
Some people are just not very good at dealing with other people - relax, chances are that nobody is trying to upset you
[/quote]

Excellent advice for life in general !

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1355653828' post='1900870']
Some people just over-value their gear.
[/quote]

Its actually a well document psychological phenomena known as the "endowment effect" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_effect

[quote]
I think i said it before, possibly in this thread, about the guy who got quite insulted when i estimated that his squier VM jazz (the one with SD pups) would be worth £200 at best on the second hand market. He insisted that it was worth at least £260, when in fact, you can get them new for £260.
[/quote]

Again from a psychology point of view they probably paid over the odds for it themselves and therefore need to impose thier own reality as to its "worth" in order to not face up to the fact that they overpaid.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Yeah, I think I know what you're talking about there.
An upgraded Squier is still a Squier.

If you want to pay top dollar, fill your boots, but not for me.
It's still a Squier - just like the one in my Avatar, of which I'm still fond. But S/H is usually less than new, you'd think. Regardless of upgrades.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1355752093' post='1902156']
Its actually a well document psychological phenomena known as the "endowment effect" [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_effect"]http://en.wikipedia....ndowment_effect[/url]



Again from a psychology point of view they probably paid over the odds for it themselves and therefore need to impose thier own reality as to its "worth" in order to not face up to the fact that they overpaid.
[/quote]

Interesting read there. cheers for that.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='JohnFitzgerald' timestamp='1355766962' post='1902479']
Yeah, I think I know what you're talking about there.
An upgraded Squier is still a Squier.

If you want to pay top dollar, fill your boots, but not for me.
It's still a Squier - just like the one in my Avatar, of which I'm still fond. But S/H is usually less than new, you'd think. Regardless of upgrades.
[/quote]
That's nonsense, the parts on my squier would sell second hand for the price of a standard squier bass alone, there are plenty of people who would pay what you are calling over the odds only to part it all out on ebay a week later and sell the bass as standard again.

[JohnFitzgerald]

Pete.
To a degree, I would have to err slightly disagree with you here.

If the parts on your Squier are indeed worth that then of course you're 100% correct that you could sell them on for that.
And yes indeed, you'd have a standard bass provided it came with all the stock bits to screw back on again.

All I'm saying is that to many people, the premium, especially if you're not getting the stock bits chucked in, isn't really that strong.

You know what, even I haven't a clue if I'm talking bollocks or not here, so maybe best I leave it at that.
I'm as tight as a camel's a**ehole in a sandstorm so maybe I'm no fair guide.

As you were

[stingrayPete1977]

No problem John I get your point slightly, a pro setup (often worse than my own effort) and a set of new rotosounds (which I hate) is not a modded bass, but my £150 affinity jazz has £400 worth of ad ons even if sold the bits at half price which would be like watching piranhas at work if I listed them on here at that trust me, that's £200 plus the jazz with the stock parts and the rolled frets I can't sell for say £90? Offers of half the cost of the stock bass at £75 would not be concidered that said I would not be offended as some people say they are

[Stacker]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1355740869' post='1901938']


Why is it "insulting" ?, what does does it cost you to simply ignore said offer ?. I mean especially on ebay you will always get people making low offers, but rather than taking it personally you should treat them as options.
[/quote]

Are you telling me an offer of £500 on a vintage 4001 isn't an insult ??

[hamfist]

[quote name='Stacker' timestamp='1355816295' post='1902980']
Are you telling me an offer of £500 on a vintage 4001 isn't an insult ??
[/quote]

Yes, I think you'll find that most of us here do not find it insulting. It is not an offer we would accept in a million years, but how is it insulting ? It is an option, a choice that you are being offered by someone. No pressure is involved here. Why feel insulted, or worse still, be rude, in your response ?
good offers are certainly nice, but good manners are priceless.

[Conan]

[quote name='Stacker' timestamp='1355652979' post='1900859']
A low offer, to me, has to be several hundred pounds below my asking price. [/quote]

Not if the item in question is priced at, say, £3500. An offer of £3000 may well be accepted depending on the condition, age, reason for sale, etc.

As stated earlier, I generally think that less than 50% of the asking price is a low-ball. But it depends on the asking price!

[Stacker]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1355818740' post='1903002']


Yes, I think you'll find that most of us here do not find it insulting. It is not an offer we would accept in a million years, but how is it insulting ? It is an option, a choice that you are being offered by someone. No pressure is involved here. Why feel insulted, or worse still, be rude, in your response ?
good offers are certainly nice, but good manners are priceless.
[/quote]

Ok, let's say the interested party knows his gear and the current market value of said Rick. If good manners are to be considered, should the party have the judiciouness not to make that offer in the first place?

An insult is only taken if it is perceived as such and, on that occasion, I personally took that as an insult. His offer was automatically declined and no nasty email reproaching him was sent. He was, however, blocked from bidding on my auctions again and th Rick was eventually sold at close to my asking price.

[stingrayPete1977]

Many people are up against it at the moment and people know this, how much of the market value do we buy any car offer you (plus they aim to pay less than half of the offer when you get there to do the deal) look at the apr on log book loans and quick quid etc, Letting a Rick go for maybe £750 after the initial bartering has begun from the £500 could be a better option than going to cash converters or Wonga.com for example,those companies would not be going if no one needed them.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='JohnFitzgerald' timestamp='1355766962' post='1902479']
If you want to pay top dollar, fill your boots, but not for me.
[/quote]

In a nutshell!

Different people put different values on different things. It's all as simple as that.

Everything is just . . . . well let me hand over to Mr Fry . . .

[attachment=125390:offence.jpg]

[thepurpleblob]

Can you be insulted by someone you don't know and have never met? Other than that, it's just someone making an offer you are going to refuse. What are you planning on doing with your indignation?

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' timestamp='1355826420' post='1903125']
Can you be insulted by someone you don't know and have never met? Other than that, it's just someone making an offer you are going to refuse. What are you planning on doing with your indignation?
[/quote]
Ranting on basschat most of 'em